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Old 11-11-2001, 02:59 AM   #1
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Question Can anyone answer a question for me ?

I have a question.

I have a lot of problems with my knees. Someone recommended either Glucosamine Sulfate Complex.... and/or..... Glucosamine Chondroitin.

What is the difference between the two???? Which do you prefer??
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Old 11-11-2001, 11:42 AM   #2
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Hi 2cute:

Glucosomine Sulfate is just the Glucosamine supplement part of the equation. Chondroitin is the other part.
I'm not sure I can tell you what each does separately (but a health food store would be able to look it up for you) because I take the combination formula.

Here is what it says on the side of my bottle.
"Provides nutritional support as your body:
Renews Cartilage,
Repairs Connective Tissue,
Rebuilds Cartilage and Connective Tissue"

I have been on it for going on 3 years and I can really tell if I skip a couple of days. There is a downside however, and that is that it CAN effect your blood pressure, because they warn you to stop taking it 2 weeks before any kind of surgery. I also take an MSM supplement. It is supposed to help rebuild Cologen.

Anyway, good luck.
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Old 11-11-2001, 01:43 PM   #3
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Thanks Thin.... I heard the reason you had to quit taking it before surgery is because it is a blood thinner. It would cause excessive bleeding during surgery. Remember when I had that terrible nose bleed and had to go to the emergency room. That is who told me to quit taking it. But I was also taking asprin and some other Natural Drug that also was a blood thinner. So I have quit the asprin and am taking the Glusamine again... but didn't know which to take. I need a new bottle.

Thanks for the info.

Anyone else out there with info ?????
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Old 11-12-2001, 01:32 AM   #4
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Default One thing ...

... about the chondroitin is that it is derived from shark's cartilage, e.g., the shark has to die to supply it. So if you are a vegetarian, you might want to think twice about it.
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:11 PM   #5
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My knee doctor recommended it when I blew my knee. I sometimes run out for a few days between bottles and I immediatly notice a difference. I crack and pop much more when I don't take it.
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Old 11-12-2001, 12:33 PM   #6
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Here is a great product for people... "Tonic Blend". You can find it here: http://www.springtimeinc.com/default.cfm

They make a product for horses out of the same chondroitin- I have been giving it to my 25 year old horse since he was 20- and he is doing SO well! He can still canter under saddle and he still gets frisky. he has terrible legs so this is a real miracle for him.

Also, Springtime Inc. makes their chondroitin from bovine (cow) tracheas instead of pig trachea. (Pig trachea is not as good). Some cartilage supplements do come from sharks which I think is terrible so watch out for those. There is a lot of illegal shark fishing going on these days.

Good luck!
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Old 11-12-2001, 02:57 PM   #7
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2Cute: For starting this thread. I am learning things about these supplements. I did not know they contained a blood thinner, as is aspirin.

Weeesa, I really wasn't aware that there were other sources for chondroitin than shark. I've always just steered clear of it because I'm a vegetarian, so I wouldn't ingest any from pigs or cows either, but I'm glad to know more about it.

I do believe people get good results from these products, though. Where I live there are thousands of active seniors who live here in the winter and return to cooler climates in the summer. These supplements are very popular with this group.

I'm looking into the MSM, as I wonder if it would be helpful to me, but I need to see if it is animal based.

Unfortunately, I have to go back to bed as I still have this stupid virus.
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Old 11-12-2001, 03:15 PM   #8
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Crone Feel better soon!

Another important thing to know about supplements: More is not always better. For instance: Most joint supplements have either glucosamine or chondroitin. If you take them both that means more is better right? Well, yeah, but don't take them both at the same time because your body will get rid of the excess as waste. Take glucosamine in the morning and chondroitin in the evening if you are going to take them both.
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Old 11-13-2001, 09:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by thinthinker
There is a downside however, and that is that it CAN effect your blood pressure, because they warn you to stop taking it 2 weeks before any kind of surgery.
Does your BP go up or down with this? I wouldnt mind if it lowered it slightly.

My mother's doctor recommended Glucosamine Chondroitin for her joints, and I also have crackly knees. I'd like to try this too.
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Old 11-13-2001, 11:08 AM   #10
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I also just realized that the supplements I give Old Dog are glucosamine chondroitin. Been doing it so long, I forgot about that. Obtained these from the vet and I can tell the difference in her comfort level when she is out of them. I don't worry about vegetarian principles when it comes to feeding the pets, as it is more important to me to meet their needs.

Weeesa, that is a good point. I am going to try the glucomsamine in the a.m. and the MSM at night. I like the idea of maybe having less stiff joints. (BTW, I do feel better, thanks. Starting my streak over and will post there tonight. Sorry for the OT note in this thread.)
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Old 11-13-2001, 02:33 PM   #11
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I wanted to add to this discussion that you do need to watch the dosage. The health food store where I purchased my supplements had a chart for how many mg's you should take for what you weigh. I found when I first started taking it that it was not helping. Then I found the chart, upped the amount and it works like a charm.

Also, it may take 2-3 weeks or more to get some relief. It has to get into your system, just like it needs to get out before any planned surgeries.

And one more thing, all glucosamine and chondroitin supplements are not created equal. Watch your labels for the mg's in each pill. Some will say take 2 and are stronger pills, some will say take 3 and aren't as big of a dose.

I used to take 3 tablets daily that equalled 1500 mg Glucosamine and 1200 mg Chondroitin Sulfate. Now I have been able to downgrade to just 2 tablets daily without the pain.

2cute: Yes, I remember your bout with the nosebleeds. That's why I was curious that you were asking about this in the first place. But you're right, it probably was the combination of the aspirin, other meds and this that caused the problem.

Suzanne: I was told that it would make the blood pressure 'fluctuate' so I'm not real sure what they were talking about, however, that would not be a good situation in the context of having surgery. As to whether it helps blood pressure in general, I couldn't tell you. Even being heavy, I have never run high blood pressure except for during my pregnancies.

Weesa: The supplement I use is the Glucosamine and Chondroitin mixed. I only take the combination because it was cheaper than buying the 2 separately. I never really thought about splitting them up and taking one in the am and one in the pm. Of course I suffer from alittle CRS and so I would probably never remember to take the pm part!
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Old 11-13-2001, 06:53 PM   #12
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WOW... I love all this information!!!! I have more questions though now...LOL

One is what the heck is MSM and what is it for???

I have never seen them sold seperately.... only as one pill combined.

Can I use the same pills that I take for my 15 year old dog or does he need special formula for dogs??

I definitely can confer that all same supplements are NOT created equal... I found that out just this week. READ THOSE LABELS

Instructions already said to take one in evening and one at night. Thin... did you take all those pills at one time??

Can you buy that Tonic Blend in stores or only over internet. I don't buy anything over the net. What is it made of??

And last but not least.... what the heck is the sulfate? I bought glucosamine sulfate and Thin bought
chondrotin sulfate. What is sulfate for?

Oooppss one more. I read someplace that the glucosamine heals the bones you have... and the chondrotin grows new bones.
I like simple answers like that.

THANK YOU EVERYONE... I feel smarter already.
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Old 11-13-2001, 08:39 PM   #13
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Default For dogs ...

2cute: I wouldn't think you could use the same pills for you and your pet. I get Old Dog's supplement from the vet but there is an over-the-counter Hartz product that seems like the same thing and I've given it to my old girl when I ran out of the other. It is pricey, but worth it, I think, as it seems to help her. I tend to give her less than the recommended dosage, though.

Weeesa's suggested website sounds promising as a source for pets, but I haven't had time to check it yet. If I could buy a better product for my dog, I would.

I've also started to wonder whether it might benefit my cat at some point, although she seems to be rather fit and lively, for a cat!
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Old 11-18-2001, 03:42 PM   #14
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Ok, ladies, I finally found my sheet from the Health Food Store that I got when I was looking into the supplements. I will type it all here for you. I have not found my sheet on MSM, so I will have to stop at the store and see if I can get another one.

2cute: I will try to answer your questions, but I'm certainly no expert. What is Sulfate? Not sure but I got the impression that that is the term used for the oral form of the supplement. Can you take the same stuff as your dog? I doubt it. Can you get the 'tonic' in a store? Yes, I don't purchase anything over the internet either. I found mine at a health food store to begin with, now I can find it at the pharmacy and other stores. Just watch the mg per pill and the dosage. All supplements are not created eqal. What is MSM? I'm gonna have to get some info on that for you, sorry. I just know it's supposed to be good for this kind of stuff too and so I take it.

Glucosamine Sulfate
Glucosamine has also been shown to exert a protective effect against joint destruction and when given orally as glucosamine sulfate, it is selectively taken up by joint tissues to exert a powerful therapeutic affect in osteoarthritis. Studies have shown glucosamine sulfate to yield as good as or even better results compared to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs in relieving the pain and inflammation of osteoarthritis.
While nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs offer only symptomatic relief and may actually promote the disease process, glucosamine sulfate works on the cause of osteoarthritis. Glucosamine sulfate not only improves the symptoms, including the pain, it also helps the body repair the damaged joints.
Glucosamine sulfate is a safe, natural substance that improves osteoarthritic symptons without the side effects and risks associated with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.
Glucosamine Sulfate - the natural alternative for the treatment of osteoarthritis and rheumatic disorders.

Chondroitin Sulfate
As reported in the Townsend Letter to Doctors (January 1994), Chondroitin Sulfates are one of the major components of cartilage in humans. The primary sources of chondroitin sulfate are bovine, whale and shark cartilage. The most commonly used source is bovine.
Benefits observed in scientific studies on humans have included:
1. Reduction of joint pain in patients with osteoarthritis
2. Improvement in joint function.
3. Anti-Atherosclerotic changes were observed (less hardening of arteries) and deaths from heart disease was almost eliminated in atherosclerotic patients.
4. Works synergistically with Glucosamine Sulfate to rebuild the worn cartilage, thus reducing joint pain.
5. Safe and non-toxic in recommended dosages.
6. Does not cause gastric, ulcers or liver damage (which occur frequently with NSAIDS, such as Advil, Motrin, etc.)

From the book: The Arthritis Cure
Take Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfates to Repair Damaged Joints.
Two supplements are the heart of the program. Dosages of glucosamine and Chondroitin are usually figured according to your body weight. Although some people may need more and others less, the following dosages are usually effective and serve as a good starting point:

If you weigh less than 120 pounds, You should take: 1,000 mg Glucosamine plus 800 mg Chondroitin Sulfates.

If you weigh between 120 and 200 pounds, You should take: 1,500 mg glucosamine plus 1,200 mg Chondroitin Sulfates.

If you weigh more than 200 pounds, You should take: 2,000 mg glucosamine plus 1,600 mg Chondroitin Sulfates.

Thinthinker's note: Because I weigh over 300 pounds I had to adjust up from this chart when I first began taking these.

Your dosage should be adjusted according to your pain and function. Some people have great results right away and quickly drop their initial doses to half or a third of the starting dose. And some stop taking the two supplements completely after they find their pain has gone for good.
For maximum effectiveness, I recommend that my patients divide their glucosamine and chondroitin supplements into 2 to 4 doses, and take them throughout the day with food. They may also be taken without food, although food seems to help propel them down the esophagus.
Vitamin C and the mineral manganese increse the effecctiveness of bothe glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate and have beneficial effects on joint functions, so make sure these are either included in the supplements that you buy, or take them separately.
Manganese, which is important for synthesis of cartilage components, is also an antioxidant.

So, ladies, that's the scoop I have on glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate. Hope it helps.
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Last edited by thinthinker : 11-18-2001 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 11-18-2001, 04:30 PM   #15
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WOW Thinthinker.... thanks alot. You are a typing encyclopedia. LOL
I have been taking only the Glucosamine for one full bottle now. I was not taking enough though ...I see that now. I bought a new bottle and I have upped my dosage to 2,000 per day. I am more mobile. But it still hurts like the dickens when I first stand up after sitting for awhile.

I am going to try the Chondroitin next time I get to the store. Hopefully with losing weight and the supplements I will feel more human soon. thank you soooooooo much.

On the MSM. You said you take it. But you don't know what it is. I was wondering if that is the mineral manganese they mentioned at the end of the article.??? I am going to check that out too. I already take the VIT C.
I am actually enjoying life more now. Pain is a real kill joy.
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