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Sugar, the bitter truth.

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Old 03-05-2014, 04:51 PM   #16
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I don't know if this is a problem for the amounts that you are eating, but too much protein without enough fat can be hazardous. Please google "rabbit starvation" and "protein poisoning" if you haven't heard of them, just so you know about what can happen if it is taken to the extreme.

Most low-carb diets use fat as the staple nutrient. I think that's why Atkins didn't work well for me in the long run. I was too used to eating low-fat. To be honest, I think my problem may have been that I was eating too much protein, which is what you suspect might be happening in your case (if you want to be in ketosis).

Since you know about gluconeogenesis, you know that protein can be metabolized into glucose (plus nitrogen-based portions which are used or excreted). It looks like it's pretty inefficient in that you only get about half the amount of carbs as the amount of protein you start with. But we only need on average about 50 g protein a day, so you could be metabolizing a significant amount of glucose (over 50 g) from the remaining protein.

You might want to post in one of the low carb forums for more information. I limit my carbs, but I'm not trying to stay in ketosis. I'm just trying to avoid eating too much, which I do when I eat more carbs.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:20 PM   #17
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Thank-you SO MUCH yoyoma. This is exactly the info I'm looking for. I'm only aiming at ketosis in the hopes of controlling my hunger and carb addiction, so not married to it. I'm like you in being used to low fat. I also think I'm a little carbaphobic, but using protein to get glucose is expensive. Thanks again!

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Old 03-06-2014, 11:05 AM   #18
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Good morning!
Having been low carb for over 1 yr, I'm realizing 2 things: 1) mental functioning is much better with the right amount of carbs. The right range remains to be determined. I have a fear of the nagging hunger from the carb/insulin roller coaster. But my thinking and ability to do mental tasks are markedly improved with 40 net carbs rather than the 25-30 I've been eating.

2) Sucralose and high protein (e.g., 150-170g from tofu and chicken) can enter into the equation. I noticed some fat deposition coming back to my abdomen & thighs, despite good scale #s and clothes still fitting. Cutting way back on Mio water flavoring and all my other artificially sweetened go-tos has helped me to eat less and feel satisfied. I'll get measurements today.

Yesterday, with trepidation, I ate kidney beans and a small avocado before bed. It was alarming to see my calorie & macronutrient count on MFP! Yet today I lost 1.5 lbs, and finally made it below 145 lbs. Today, I am going to add quinoa and see what happens. Time to lose the fear of carbs and fat!
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:54 PM   #19
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Go easy on the avocardos mars. You don't need to eat the whole thing. when i was growing up it was normal to eat a half an avocado but we didn't do it very often. When i moved in with some other people in my adulthood, i learnt that avocado can be made to last several days. Just cut out a slice at a time and cover the remainder with cling wrap to stop it going brown.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:04 PM   #20
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I eat 1/4th to 1/2 avocado every day. Generally, I try to make meals that are 1/4 'protein' (usually beans but can be tofu, tempeh, seitan, etc), 1/4 grains or starchy vegetables and 1/2 non starchy vegetables. I add various fats to my meals. It varies though based on what I might want to eat.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:37 PM   #21
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Pattience & Nelie: Thanks for watching my back re avocados! I picked the smallest one I could find because I have never in my life been able to leave avocado over. I will literally wake up in the middle of the night and eat the rest like a robot. The edible part weighed 4 oz--200 cal! And I thought I just had a sugar addiction, lol.

Nelie: Your eating plan sounds maintainable and healthy (and sustainable, too).

I'm reading The Sugar Addicts Total Recovery Program by Kathleen Des Maisons. It's been around for while, I think 2001. She talks about sugar addiction in terms of a trilogy of traits that can be hereditary: sugar sensitivity in which blood sugar and insulin responses to sugar are more than other people so we are perpetually eating to chase hunger and that starts the cycle all over. Then there is a low level of serotonin and beta-endorpin in the brain so they/we are prone to depression, SAD, and tend to be impulsive.

She has a dietary plan including protein in the am and a potato at night, among other things. These are precursors to serotonin. I've only just started the book but she sounds very credible.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:29 PM   #22
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Mars when i can't control my intake of a certain food, i leave it out of my diet until i can manage it. That's my latest strategy anyhow.

First time i did specific food restriction, i kept all of them off limits that included not just sugar stuff but also, nuts, cheese, dried fruit and i can't think what else right now and most fatty goods - not avocados though.

Now on this current diet, i have found i can eat cheese in moderation, nuts also (but i don't eat them on their own, only as part of a meal with other things). If i saw i was having trouble with my cheese or nuts, then i'd have to think about chucking them off again. Same as avocados.

but then i'm not doing a high protein diet. My diet isn't about changing the ratio of proteins fats and carbs which would make it more complicated.


i have certainly noticed a link between mood and appetite. So now i think if you are on a diet, one should work hard also on the mood .
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:29 PM   #23
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I haven't read the article yet (I will) but saw Lustig's video and it was life transforming for me. I'll never view sugar the same- now I just see "poison". Especially now that there is some theory that Alzheimers may actually be "type 3 diabetes" I think it's especially important to eat whole foods and avoid the processed crap and sugars particularly.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:46 PM   #24
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Do you have scientific articles about alzheimer's being a form of diabetes? The reason I ask is the only thing I've seen is questionable theories without any evidence.

We are learning a lot more about Alzheimer's and dementia in general. The things I've read seem to indicate that vitamin B-12 malabsorption (which is not only genetic for those of all ages but widespread among the elderly) and exposure to aluminum throughout life both seem to play a role in Alzheimer's.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nelie View Post
Do you have scientific articles about alzheimer's being a form of diabetes? The reason I ask is the only thing I've seen is questionable theories without any evidence.

We are learning a lot more about Alzheimer's and dementia in general. The things I've read seem to indicate that vitamin B-12 malabsorption (which is not only genetic for those of all ages but widespread among the elderly) and exposure to aluminum throughout life both seem to play a role in Alzheimer's.
I don't, and don't claim to know for sure, just that I've seen this theory floated around. The first link below is the most authoritative, the other two are just articles. Googling "type 3 diabetes" will bring up a plethora of results.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ype=blogs&_r=0

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/sug...ype-3-diabetes

Again, I'm not saying it is for sure but the concern is there. We already have plenty of reasons to avoid sugars, this for me just adds to it because Alzheimers is a pretty scary disease.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:01 AM   #26
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It is interesting that they noticed less insulin receptors in the brain of those with Alzheimer's after an autopsy. I'm wondering if there is an easy way to track insulin receptors while someone is alive and be able to do a long term study. I think it would be difficult because it is dealing with the brain though and couldn't be an easy blood test to see.

Could sugar play a part in less insulin receptors? Yes, no maybe? They do show a link between uncontrolled blood sugar level (aka diabetes) and alzheimer's but there could be other things as well. I think overall diabetes causes havoc on the body and is something to be avoided. I had 2 great grandparents and 1 grandparent who had diabetes. They all lived to be in their 90s but their last few years were rough, my great grandmother went blind my great grandfather had his leg amputated and my grandfather, well he was fairly healthy until the last couple years of his life but it seems diabetes weighed him down.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:00 AM   #27
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Up until the 1850s sugar was almost unheard of for the masses anywhere in the world.

Anyone can chalk up surge in diabetes, heart disease, and cancer to anything they want. Me I think the evidence is crystal clear. And I am walking the walk. Carbs almost all from non startchy veggies, no grains, little to no added sugar, more saturated fat.

I have the best health of my life, by far, at 48.

My beloved uncle got diabetes and dementia and followed standard dietary advice his whole life. It is devastating to me.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:52 AM   #28
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I volunteered for an Alzheimer's center when I was in high school and it was pretty sad. Luckily, I've never had anyone in my family with dementia/Alzheimer's but it isn't something I'd wish on anyone.
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