I obviously do, which is why I started this thread. I'm in good company, too. These people also care: Almost everyone in this thread, veg*n or not. All my veg*n friends both online or in real life. Countless veg*ns on other vegetarian message boards. The societies that exist to support veg*ns.
nelie
I go thru the same thing. I eat only enough meat to meet my daily requirements. I think tofu is about the nasties thing I have ever seen or tasted no matter how it was made I KNEW it was not meat. I just don't care for meat. That doesn't mean I don't eat meat at all but people assume I don't. I support everyone no matter what their eating habits are as long as those eating habits are healthy. There is a basic four basic food group pyramid it has been around for ages and not all but most docs, nutritionist and dietitians go by it. There is a new pyramid out of course that encompases the non meat way of eating. The dietitian and nutritionist that I have both say you can NOT get everything from pills or other foods that you get from some meats. I tend to stick with fish and chicken myself. By the way, I think if a person doesn't want to eat meat that is up to them. I in no way would put anyone down for NOT eating meat. I find it amazing how many that don't eat meat sure want to put people down that do eat meat. God gave us meat to eat that is good enough for me if a person wants to eat it.
Last edited by Shy Moment; 07-17-2008 at 04:08 PM.
Wow, am I glad I poked my head in here. I haven’t been visiting these boards much lately, because honestly I spend enough time IRL surrounded by omnivores and lacto/ovo veggies and “vegetarians” that eat gelatin that I’ve come to prefer my online forum time to be spent with other vegans, of which I know exactly zero in real life. But this has been a really good discussion that surprisingly hasn’t devolved into crazy accusations and name calling.
I guess it would be really nice if I could go anywhere to eat and just say “vegan” and assume the server knew what I meant, or be assured that there actually would be anything vegan anywhere I go, but sadly that’s not the world we live in. I guess it sort of bothers me, but I’ve also kind of just gotten over it and adjusted. Half the time I don’t even use the word “vegan” when talking to a server or anyone who might be preparing me a meal (especially if I have reason to believe that word doesn’t mean anything to them) and I just go straight for the “no meat, fish, poultry, meat-based stock, dairy (sometimes have to clarify what all dairy means), eggs, gelatin or honey” diatribe. Does this make me sound neurotic and crazy sometimes? I’m sure it does. But I don’t care. I have aligned myself with a set of beliefs that the vast majority of those around me are unfamiliar with, and thus my consumption patterns are not something most people are going to know about off the bat if I just say “vegan”. I know where to go to get good vegan food, if I’m choosing the restaurant I will go to one of these places. If I’m forced by some sort of group situation or something to go to an omni-centric restaurant I just deal with it as best I can. I don’t really care about the label “vegan” as much as I care about what being vegan means to me, which is deeply personal and I just don’t presume that the average person is interested in my personal ethical beliefs.
Now that isn't to say I don't try to have educational moments about what veganism is and what it means to me if I'm asked by a friend or co-worker, I'm just saying that the muddying of the term is the reality of the situation and I can work around it accordingly in food situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shy Moment
...I eat only enough meat most of the time to meet my daily requirements. I just don't care for meat.
pssst...un, there's actually no dietary requirement for meat or any animal products in your diet.
source: from the ADA position paper on veg*an diets.
Quote:
This position paper reviews the current scientific data related to key nutrients for vegetarians, including protein, iron, zinc, calcium, vitamin D, riboflavin, vitamin B-12, vitamin A, n-3 fatty acids and iodine. A vegetarian, including vegan, diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients.
I obviously do, which is why I started this thread. I'm in good company, too. These people also care: Almost everyone in this thread, veg*n or not. All my veg*n friends both online or in real life. Countless veg*ns on other vegetarian message boards. The societies that exist to support veg*ns.
I care too! I care because every person who claims the label of veg*n while consuming products that don't fit the definition is diluting what the term actually means and obfuscating the moral reality of the choices veg*ns are making.
I care too! I care because every person who claims the label of veg*n while consuming products that don't fit the definition is diluting what the term actually means and obfuscating the moral reality of the choices veg*ns are making.
Wow, am I glad I poked my head in here. I haven’t been visiting these boards much lately, because honestly I spend enough time IRL surrounded by omnivores and lacto/ovo veggies and “vegetarians” that eat gelatin that I’ve come to prefer my online forum time to be spent with other vegans, of which I know exactly zero in real life. But this has been a really good discussion that surprisingly hasn’t devolved into crazy accusations and name calling.
I guess it would be really nice if I could go anywhere to eat and just say “vegan” and assume the server knew what I meant, or be assured that there actually would be anything vegan anywhere I go, but sadly that’s not the world we live in. I guess it sort of bothers me, but I’ve also kind of just gotten over it and adjusted. Half the time I don’t even use the word “vegan” when talking to a server or anyone who might be preparing me a meal (especially if I have reason to believe that word doesn’t mean anything to them) and I just go straight for the “no meat, fish, poultry, meat-based stock, dairy (sometimes have to clarify what all dairy means), eggs, gelatin or honey” diatribe. Does this make me sound neurotic and crazy sometimes? I’m sure it does. But I don’t care. I have aligned myself with a set of beliefs that the vast majority of those around me are unfamiliar with, and thus my consumption patterns are not something most people are going to know about off the bat if I just say “vegan”. I know where to go to get good vegan food, if I’m choosing the restaurant I will go to one of these places. If I’m forced by some sort of group situation or something to go to an omni-centric restaurant I just deal with it as best I can. I don’t really care about the label “vegan” as much as I care about what being vegan means to me, which is deeply personal and I just don’t presume that the average person is interested in my personal ethical beliefs.
Now that isn't to say I don't try to have educational moments about what veganism is and what it means to me if I'm asked by a friend or co-worker, I'm just saying that the muddying of the term is the reality of the situation and I can work around it accordingly in food situations.
pssst...un, there's actually no dietary requirement for meat or any animal products in your diet.
source: from the ADA position paper on veg*an diets.
I relate to your post, 100%.
I feel like I am "adjusted" too, but it's been a struggle for SO long that it gets tiring after a while.
Thank you! We've never interacted much before, so I never had the chance to tell you that seeing your posts on this board was a big influence on me seeking more information on veganism and becoming a vegan last year.
It's been almost a year now and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made! I can't believe I waited so long to do it. I hope you know what a great and positive representative of veganism you are on this board (and probably to everybody you meet IRL as well). If I can do half as well, I'll be proud.
Last edited by betsysunqueen; 07-16-2008 at 08:00 PM.
Reason: clarifying wording
Thank you! We've never interacted much before, so I never had the chance to tell you that seeing your posts on this board was a big influence on me seeking more information on veganism and becoming a vegan last year.
It's been almost a year now and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made! I can't believe I waited so long to do it. I hope you know what a great and positive representative of veganism you are on this board (and probably to everybody you meet IRL as well). If I can do half as well, I'll be proud.
Thank you! We've never interacted much before, so I never had the chance to tell you that seeing your posts on this board was a big influence on me seeking more information on veganism and becoming a vegan last year.
I'm going to chime in here as well about you Soulbliss. I have to admit that your posts are what made me consider the switch. I know you were a big help in the thread I posted in past about considering the switch. Now I'm ovo lacto and I'm transitioning to a vegan diet. (I wanted to make it gradual so I don't go crazy, that's how I do things)
I have to agree that SoulBliss has been a great influence on me, even though I have not changed my position on eating meat, completely. She's inspired me to give it thought and in the process not only helped me understand a different perspective than my own, helped me understand what I believe and why, and what I'm willing to do about it.
I have to say I've always been pretty open-minded, but living in an area of the country in which vegetarians are thought to be "odd" and vegans just plain insane (that is by the few people who understand the difference, and those that don't pretty much lump 'em all together in the crazy bin, anyway) - well, I couldn't help but have some pretty dumb stereotypes. I have to say that I had a lot more stereotypes about the food than the people though. I thought "even if I did believe that eating meat and animal products was wrong, there's no way I could eat 'that way."
"The Downtown Grocery," in Wausau is a health food grocery (the owneres also own their own organic CSA farm with cabins for guests, have to plug my favorites to do my part to keep them in business) and they make homemade vegan lunches daily.
Getting to know SoulBliss, well she just didn't seem like the kind of person who would put up with crappy tasting food, so I do have to give her partial credit for my willingness to try the food. A couple weeks ago I had a sweet potato and black bean burrito that was to die for. Sooo amazingly yummy, with cumin and coriander and fresh salsa. Hubby passed and bought a brat on the way home (good ol' Wisconsin boys, might pass out if they don't have beef, pork or deep fried walleye every few hours).
Actually, I have to give hubby a gold star. This past weekend we went to have lunch (my pick) and I picked the Grocery. I had the dahl (an indian curried lentil soup) and hubby had the creamed cauliflower soup (no cream, just smushed cauliflower, onions, veggie broth and seasonings). I also had some seaweed salad (love sewead salad) and "Jamaican Gems salad." It was a garlicky sweet potato salad, but the sweet potato was either raw or barely blanched, because the taters were very crunchy. OMG, so good it's going to be one of our "regular" weekend lunch spots.
It's funny, because I really never thought my husband would have an ounce of sympathy or understanding for veganism. Early in our relationship (I think we weren't married yet, or were barely married) we heard on the radio that that McDonald's had been using beef tallow in their french fries. I gasped really loudly, horrified, and hubby asked what on earth was wrong, and I repeated what I'd heard on the radio. He didn't get it. I pointed out that veg*ns and Hindus (and heck even my devoutly Catholic family, if they had ordered fries with their filet of fish during lent) could have been eating the fries, thinking they were "ok."
I still don't think he got it then, but I think he would now. He's really become a lot more open-minded, not just in terms of food, but viewpoints other than those he was raised with.
And I think THAT is the real issue. Not that we all agree on everything, but that we respect the opinions of people we don't agree with whenever we are consciencously able to. That we realize that things we don't care about may very be important to other people and deserve to be treated respectfully (so "who cares," is a phrase to be used very carefully, with the realization that it's a slap in the face to those who do).
living in an area of the country in which vegetarians are thought to be "odd" and vegans just plain insane
I can most definately relate. I grew up on a farm in Oklahoma and I live in Texas for crying out loud. Everyone knows our stereotypes of steaks and steers and whatnot.
I saw something you had posted earlier, about hunting season. In Oklahoma, people would skip school if they were old enough to go hunting, and it was perfectly acceptable. They would miss two or three classes, and they actually accepted a note from the parent saying that the student was hunting. I always found that quite odd.
I grew up eating meat. I lived on a farm where we did your typical FFA activities, including showing sheep and pigs. After so many years...to put it nicely...we "made our own meat." But we used everything. I know that doesn't make it better, but we never bought meat from stores. Actually, I don't think we did until I moved here to Texas six years ago.
The reason I chose vegetarian isn't for ethical reasons...although those reasons are enough. I did it for my health. After I had my gallbladder removed, it has become extremely painful for me to digest any sort of meat. Making the switch to ovo lacto alone has made the pains go away and I overall feel better...even lighter. (Although the scale may say otherwise) Who knows how I'll feel when I make the switch completely to vegan.
To get back on topic, I have to agree with the thought that we as humans love labels. It does help us define who we are. Whether or not it is right for someone to call themselves something that they're not, is a different story. I can understand the frustration, I really can. It even more frustrating when someone labels you, even if it is correct.
Last edited by THE Heather; 07-16-2008 at 10:26 PM.
I can totally relate, I grew up in a culture and family where meat is part of the culture. It isn't uncommon to see animals slaughtered or even cooked whole for special events. Also, every part of the animal is eaten. I also had neighbors who would raise their own animals at slaughter them at home and also use them for eggs. (My family wasn't too fond of that practice, they prefer to grow fruits and vegetables)
I don't know any other vegetarians in my family and I don't remember any growing up although they might've been there. When I gave up meat, my parents grumbled but they already think I'm weird. When I said I had given up eggs and cheese, they really couldn't grasp that. So yeah, I'm the weird one
kaplods - You are definitly right about those "up north" folks being pretty in the dark about the whole vegan thing on the whole. But even with my family I've found that once they try the food and find that it's not scary or weird and in fact tastes good they see that it is not entirely crazy to eat this way. Even my meat-a-tarian BIL ate three TVP sloppy joes last time he came to visit. I think it will take some time, but as more people start to eat less meat and animal products, for whatever reasons, it will become more common for people to know a vegan or two and not find it so extreme or "weird".
Even in Madison, which is supposed to be the "liberal" center of Wisconsin we don't have a single all vegetarian restaurant. There used to be a couple but they have gone out of business. There are plenty of places that have good vegan options, but it's not the same. I miss my favorite restaurants in LA where I could order anything off the menu. It would take me half an hour to decide, but it was still great. *sigh*
Curious though that you say you were vegan but missed salmon, why couldn't you eat a mostly vegan diet and eat salmon? Are you classifying your current vegetarianism as pescatarian?
who said i don't eat a mostly vegan diet and eat salmon? i do. i like salmon and i like swiss cheese haha. i don't do dairy for the most part because it makes me sick. i came to enjoy the vegan foods i was eating and for the most part i still eat them. occasionally i have some swiss cheese on my bocca burger, and once a week i have salmon or some other kind of sea food. when i stopped the complete vegan lifestyle is when i started loosing weight. i don't know if that has to do with the addition of salmon and the omega fatties, but something worked and i'm glad that i made the switch. again with the classifications? jc, i am an ovo lacto vegetarian(and i can't even seem to SPELL it right)that's as far as i will go in over classifying myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulBliss
I obviously do, which is why I started this thread. I'm in good company, too. These people also care: Almost everyone in this thread, veg*n or not. All my veg*n friends both online or in real life. Countless veg*ns on other vegetarian message boards. The societies that exist to support veg*ns.
Welcome to 3FC, by the way!
i think you missed my point. the question "who cares" was rhetorical. i suppose the real question would be: why do you care so much? i think a large portion of this worlds problems have to do with other people caring so much about what other people are doing and having to poke noses in and tell people that what they're doing is "wrong". i mean this on even the smallest level. i don't mean to be offensive about this...but i don't like the vegan and vegetarian community in my area(california)because of the level of pretension and self righteousness they have elevated to in the past few years. i don't like the extremes that any group tries to enforce upon other people. like crazy feminists burning bras and hating men, i'm a feminist but i don't hate men and i would not burn my bra(they cost too much!). i agree with most vegetarians about why they stopped eating meat. i admire the souls who have the will power and dedication to go vegan. i just wont judge other people who are trying to do something right(not eat meat, cut down on meat ect.)just because i don't like the image they are projecting to society about me. that's the problem right? you don't like how "hard" they make it for you guys in real life because the options are limited right? well you knew when you became one that it was going to be hard. no accommodates minorities no matter what minority you are. when i became a vegetarian(no meat no dairy veggies and grains only)thirteen years ago, it was WAY harder than it is now and i wasn't even a vegan! imagine how it was in the sixties and seventies! we have it easy now with all the choices that are available. there weren't any vegan restaurants and certainly not enough to go eat at a different one every week. things will get better and easier for all non meat eaters of every degree, all we have to do educate people and trust me, some will listen. or do what people have been doing for years now(hence the uprise in all the veg stuff we see):create your own.
my whole point before was why waste time picking apart what other people label themselves as? show people what you are and let others do the same.
These people also care: Almost everyone in this thread, veg*n or not. All my veg*n friends both online or in real life. Countless veg*ns on other vegetarian message boards. The societies that exist to support veg*ns.
Heather, I am so glad you've gone veg*n and that I was of help!!! 
