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Old 11-08-2003, 02:24 AM   #151  
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Hi, it's me again. Hard to believe that three hours ago I was sitting here telling you I had such a good day and that I've been sleeping better. It's 2:16 and I'm wide awake. Went to bed and tossed for an hour, got up, have done lots of itty bitty paper work things and just want to be in bed.

I'm having a lot of anxiety tonight, mostly over dh's health. All seemed to be going well but his bp was creeping up. Went to dr. yesterday, gave him another pill, so far no effect. Any other problem I can usually talk over with him but don't want to add my anxiety to whatever he may be having. And when I get in anxiety mode, I'm anxious over every stupid little thing.

So anyway, while tossing in bed, my stomach was growling and making an awful racket. When I came down I had a Slimfast bar to quiet the racket. I think I'll follow the lead of my Empress and add that to today's calories instead of yesterday's. That way I can still claim my good day yesterday and hope to still manage same today. The old me would have demanded a pigout under the circumstances but I don't even want to eat. I like that about me.
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Old 11-08-2003, 07:29 AM   #152  
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Yo! It's THE early a.m. jock up and about, Anagramatic ... I also have trouble sleeping but have been catching the exercise-in-morning-fever .... seems when I actually go to gym or even do it at home in the a.m., I am less inclined to tell myself that work or whatever is more important and skip it.

s ... I KNOW it was my idea to have only one thread for the Courtly Challengers, Regal Reducers and Merrie Maintainers (CCRRMM) club, but now I think we should have MORE! I'm going to start a no conversation countdown to winter solstice/Christmas (whatever floats thy boateth) thread here in Miscellaneous Clubs. Don't mean that I'm shunning the conversational stuff or leaving this thread ... it's just for us to focus on what I discern is everyone's wishes for a focused challenge. I'd love it if everyone would post their "countdown" to the winter challenge target there. Will elucidate further on that thread. Fa-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la!
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Old 11-08-2003, 05:02 PM   #153  
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wsw, I'm so glad that you're feeling more secure; hope you slept well. And very impressive about your manager getting right on the case!

YoYo Dee's back! A reason to celebrate! Who else would understand my Simpsons references?

Punkin, good job on avoiding the Reese's punkins, now to run the gauntlet of the Christmas trees. Better to just not start. Sorry to hear about your aunt's passing--were you close to her? Any stories to share?

Wildfire, 10 AM Tuesday. It's a date!

Anagram, congrats on your 5-day run! Keep going! I hope you're feeling more peaceful today.

Amarantha, You're really inspiring me with your early morning workouts. Yowza indeed!!! Also, I love the idea of having a 'bare bones' thread where we can post our daily workouts, food or whatever. I'll look for it!

Hello, Kaylets, Ceara, Cerise, Dollar, zadie, Arabella and all!
 
Old 11-08-2003, 05:16 PM   #154  
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Yowza, no one is here .. I hope I didn't offend anyone by posting the companion thread ... it wasn't meant to be a replacement, just a place for the challenge. Anyone out there?

Ok, if not, I'll be forced to go back to work.

Sigh.
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Old 11-08-2003, 05:33 PM   #155  
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Fear not, Empress. Weekends are always slow here, and I've already posted on your new thread!
 
Old 11-08-2003, 06:03 PM   #156  
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I'm here! I'm here!

First chance today I've had to sit for a minute to post.

I am starting what may be the worst period I've had in 16 years. It's the first since I stopped taking BC pills. NOW I know why I've been crying over little things for the last two days. Warnings have been issued. People's heads may be lopped off.

Got an early Christmas gift for DH and me. Well, mostly me, but he will reap the rewards. Wallymart had a deal on a George Foreman grill, the big one, PLUS a baby George Rotisserie for the same price as the grill alone! We got the last one on the skid, too. Of course, I can't use it for another 7 weeks. Pooey, as Cerise would say!

DD is signed up for the independent learning courses, and is going to get a part-time job for the Christmas season, since she will be available more than the other students. Think this whole thing may be a "blessing in disguise" as my grandmother said. We have not had an argument since she's been home, and it's two weeks now. That's a record in this house! She seems to have done some growing up.

Punkin, very sorry to hear of your aunt's passing. She does sound like a cool old lady. And you're inviting your guy to visit???? I gotta get me that Dr. Phil book....it's working wonders for you!

anagram, you're on a roll, woman! Keep it going!

Amarantha, going to check out the new thread. Good timing for something like this, as this morning I was talking to DH about what seems to work for me and what doesn't, and having a place to be accountable works. What's this??? YOU'RE getting up at 5am or earlier? I'm royally impressed, your Empress!

Eydie, I'll take all the good vibes you can send! How is going with the work fiasco?

Where are Cerise, frogger, arabella, dollar, and wsw? And zadie...I think she posts from work, though.

'k, I'm off to the new thread.
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:00 PM   #157  
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Thanks, Eydie and Wildfire!! I just finished work and will post on the accountability thread tomorrow as to what I did today to GIVE MY ALL for the winter challenge!!! Yay, team!!!!!

Eydie, I replied to thy pm!!! Thx!!!

Punkin, I believe I forgot to send condolences re thy aunt ... it has been a rough year for thee. I also somehow missed the part about "your guy" visiting and how that relates to Dr. P, but I'm going back and read that because that sounds veeeery promising!

Regal Reducers, I am braindead from writing three hours regarding school boreds and must hie me to the couch ... much more work to do tomorrow!

Sigh.

RANT, don't read if depressed: Took Old Dog to vet for shots. Find that a depressing experience as this vet ALWAYS comments on the age of Old Dog. He seems to think she's older than she is by about two years and is always pontificating mournfully on how close, seemingly, she is to the Grim Reaper (my words, not his). If I didn't think he was such a good vet, I'd go somewhere else where I wouldn't feel like crying everytime I get out of there. I keep telling him I intend for Old Dog to be with me for some time to come but he keeps harping on it. Why can't I just enjoy my dog while she's here without all this depression. She could live for YEARS and YEARS. I could drop dead tomorrow. Who can say? Why should we moan and groan and have all this handwringing and Uriah Heapishness regarding a sweet dog who's still among us? Sigh. I am really sick of this, so I did eat a few extra points, of course ...

Still GAVE MY ALL and will report on that thread tomorrow! But going to go look and Wildfire and Eydie's posts as I'm so thrilled about the participation! Yay!
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:01 PM   #158  
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hello your royal highnesses! i was able to get some good sleep last night. thanks for all the good thoughts. much happier now with these new locks.

punkin-i'm sorry to hear about your aunt.

eydie-yeah, i was impressed too with how my apt. manager handled things, and so quickly.

amarantha-i am impressed with your now becoming an early morning jock. i will check out the other thread you started too. good idea.

wildfire-glad to hear that things are going well with you and your DD.

anagram-sorry you had trouble sleeping last night. hope DH's health problems, b/p will get better quickly. it is impressive not over-eating over the stress. also hope you rest well tonight.

hi yo-yo dee. congrats on all that weight loss!

hi also to all the rest of the royal kingdom. i hope everyone is having a good weekend. take care.
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:08 PM   #159  
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Hello all!!

Where have I been??

DH's been running late-- new unit -- etc, etc--
Seems like just 15 minutes can make all the difference....

WSW- am so glad you have new keys... sounds like your apartment management is the best...glad they are so quick to act!

Punkin- sorry to hear about your Aunt... my best to you and your family...

To everyone.. hope you all had an interesting eclipse... first one I've witnessed in many years... luckily the best of it happened right after dark...

Till later..
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Old 11-08-2003, 09:11 PM   #160  
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Yowza, Wsw, thou posted at the same time I was ranting!! Howdy!!! Glad thou be checking in here and ok!!! Hope to see thee in the Great Hall o' Giving Thy All, also!!!

I did go ahead and post my BRIEF "giving all" report there for today. Everything posted in there, methinks, should just be me-me reporting in on the challenge, so that's what I did!!! CHALLENGE!!! Yay! We can do this, we can GIVE OUR ALL!!! Why wait until next year. Let's DO IT NOW!!! Wow!!!

there be Kaylets, just as I posteth!!! Hi, K!!!!! Later, gator!

Amen!
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Old 11-08-2003, 11:28 PM   #161  
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Aaaah, Saturday night in the dom!

Shall I tune up... it's "me-me-me" again.

Well, the life-crap continues.... my stepfather returned from California on Tuesday with a severe crampy feeling in his left lung and has been hardly able to take a breath. Mind you, he's got severe emphysema, and a hereditary disease that causes clusters of blood cells to form both inside his body and on his skin - his biggest problem area is in his lungs (my brother's are in his brain and almost killed him 6 years ago) - anywho, my mom finally drags him to the Dr. yesterday and they take a chest x-ray. They think the long drive caused a blood clot and that it's in his lung. They wanted to do a CAT scan to further diagnose and fix it and he refused any further treatment. Can you freakin' believe this???? So, stepdad's a walking freakin' stroke waiting to happen. I told my mom, he's had a death wish for the last 5 years. I can understand it - he's been ill - but to put my mom through this NOW? Seems a bit selfish to me. She's going to either find him dead some morning, OR if he's not "lucky" enough to die from the stroke once this clot breaks loose, she'll be the one to care for him for the rest of his life. Yeah, seems pretty damned selfish to me....
I guess I've already distanced myself from it all emotionally - if HE doesn't care enough about us all not to at least *fake* wanting to live, why should I care if he's trying to die? Seems harsh, probably just another bizarre coping mechanism...

Many thanks for your condolences. My great aunt was a kick. The only story that comes to mind right now that wouldn't take a lot of explaination, was back when I became a massage therapist. My grandmother, being the natural health and healing woman she was, was soooo proud that I'd gotten certified and during a visit we walked down the street to visit my great aunt (granma's sister-in-law, they lived in the same retired living park). Well, grandma gushes that "Terri's now doing massage!!!" and my great aunt got this horrified look on her face. She looked at me and said "oooh.... are you REALLY????" - the way she said it, I knew she thought I was doing the type of massage that required me to be ON the table WITH the client. I busted up laughing and corrected her - it was THERAPUTIC, not sexual.... sheesh! And she thought my grandma would be so proud if it was THAT?????? The funny thing was, my great aunt then said I'd make more money if it was *that* kind of massage (like I should consider it or something!?!?!?!?)

And yes, I intend on inviting "my guy" up with the rest of the California Invasion. He's mentioned visiting in the past - and has mentioned that he *hates* making the first move. I can take a hint - *I* will make the first move. Dr. Phil really wasn't to blame/thank as much as my attitude of "life's too short to wait for some stuff to happen on its own". Fate, being the smart girl She is, does occassionally need a little SHOVE!

WSW, I'm SO glad your locks are all changed. I was pretty worried about you too.

Amarantha, you early riser you! Guess I better get my butt outta' bed on Monday. Can't have you making me look bad!

Anagram, I'm sorry you're sleepless because of worries of DH's health. I know he treasures you for your care. That is true love - when you lose sleep over someone else's health. Hugs to you both....

Wildfire, hope your female-ills are better soon. Gods do I remember some of those pre-BC periods being heavy - you start to wondering if anyone's ever bled to death before!
Congrats on the GF grill score! Burgers all around????
I'll keep my for Tuesday too!!!!

Kaylets, wasn't the eclipse cool?? My mom, bless her - we were coming back from dinner with surrogate granny and mom looks up and says "what's wrong with the moon?". She didn't know we were having an eclipse tonight! Had I thought faster I would've acted all panicked.... oooh, that would've been fuuuuunny!!!!

Eydie, Damn.... I forgot that the peanut butter trees are still to come! Aaaah, breeeeeathe.... I can do it! Think I can avoid the grocery store until January?? Oh, wait, noooo, then it's the #@%$#@& peanut butter hearts!!! A curse and mega hex on Reeses!!!!!

Well, must skeedaddle. I have a movie to watch and some relaxing to do before beddie-bye.

Terri
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Old 11-09-2003, 08:04 AM   #162  
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Hello all!

What a week! But I really could see by midday Friday that my experience from the other unit has given me a terrific foundation and I know it won't take long to learn the new one. In fact, Friday, my trainer wasnt there and I suprised myself with how much I could figure out by myself.
What a great feeling!!

But these folks have food out all day long on their desks or the bookcases! almost everything you could imagine that is dry or wrapped.... YIKES!! Going to have to keep my hands out .... had one or two days when I would have been fine except it go to be 5 pm and then I let down my guard and .....
I should have just run for the elevlator instead!

****************

Thought of the day :


"Believe in miracles"
-- Richard Eyre

Question of the day :

"What time do you usually go to bed for the night?"

***************

So...

I feel like I've been away for a long time!

How is everyone?
Did you have a chance to see the lunar eclipse?

Did it get chilly where you live?

DH and I ran errands and yardsaled w/ coats on yesterday. There was one house that I even pulled my hood up!!

Time to jump in the shower-- DH needs to caulk so its now or never!

Later!
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Old 11-09-2003, 08:41 AM   #163  
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Good morning!

Punkin, I don't know hat to say about your stepdad---how frustrating! How's your mom with it?
Good for you for making the first move with your guy. I had to do that with Garry too, and 19 years later, still going strong!

Wildfire, hope you adjust soon to the monthlies. It's really different without BC, huh?

Amarantha, I was going to take the day off today and not exercise, but that wouldn't be goiving it my all, so after I post this I'm doing it!
About your vet, his intentions are most likely good--he may feel like he's preparing you or something. But there's no need as we know that Old Dog is a holy being and immortal!

Kaylets, if that tempting food lying around is all pre-wrapped stuff, just check out the fat and calorie counts--that works for me. Empty calories are just not worth it! Another thing, make sure you bring your own 'better choice' alternatives with you for emergencies.
About the ? of the day---I'm in bed at 10:00 at the latest, usually before then. Am I a lightweight or what?
So I'm glad the lunar eclipse was early on last night!

Off to exercise. I'm thinking it'll be something tae bo-ish. Maximum sweat, minimal time!
 
Old 11-09-2003, 08:41 AM   #164  
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Hello again....


I've been catching up on my other email too...
Is anyone familiar w/ the "Flylady"?

This was one of her Essays.... I thought it was worth sharing. Hope you enjoy it too.

****
From the "www.Flylady.net"

Dear Friends,

For two weeks I have been mulling over an essay, it seems that the
only way I can address the questions in my head is to just come on
out with them and see where my writing takes me. It is kind of like
chasing a rabbit trail to see where we end up. This is a very tough
question that we all need to look at from time to time. So here goes.

What is the value system that you base your self-worth on? I don't
know, but let's just examine them and let it take us where it can. I
may not be able to answer this question, except for me. Each of us
knows our own heart.

I have looked my my self-worth and came up with lots of questions.

1. Do I value myself on my job?

2. Do I value myself because of my husband's job?

3. Do I place value on myself because of my children's jobs?

4. Do I value myself on how I look?

5. Do I value myself on how I act?

6. Do I value myself on my clothes?

7. Do I value myself on my portfolio?

8. Do I value myself on how much I saved when I shopped?

9. Do I value myself on how much I can spend?

10. Do I value myself on how much I earn?

11. Do I value myself on how much more I earn than my spouse?

12. Do I value myself on my church work?

13. Do I value myself on other volunteer jobs?

14. Do I value myself on how my house looks?

15. Do I value myself on what kind of car I drive?

16. Do I value myself on what kind of house I live in?

17. Do I value myself on where I live?

18. Do I value myself on how I purchased my furniture?

19. Do I value myself on good grades in school?

20. Do I value myself by my friends?

21. Do I value myself on my hair?

22. Do I value myself on my nails?

23. Do I value myself on how well I do one thing, Motherhood?

24. Do I value myself on how well I do a sport?

25. Do I value myself on how much weight I have lost?

26. Do I value myself on how punctual I am?

27. Do I value myself on how I manage my time?

As I have been writing these questions down, it has occurred to me
that it is not a bad thing to take pride in what I do, it is only a
problem when I establish one thing as the currency for my pride.

Too much of a good thing can be bad for you! Now I want to address
all the questions.

1. Do I value myself because of my job?
Some people are their jobs and when they retire their lives are so
sad because their foundations have been based on this job. It could
be their value is based on the size of the company that is built!

2. Do I value myself because of my husband's job?
This job can give us status in the community. We have to be careful
about this. Your husband is not his job.

3. Do I place value on myself because of my children's jobs?
Can you hear someone saying my son is a doctor, lawyer, etc? But that
does not make us who we are.

4. Do I value myself on how I look?
It is OK to have pride in how you look. I teach this, but if it takes
you hours to get ready to walk out of the house then look inside for
this answer.

5. Do I value myself on how I act?
My Granny always said, "Pretty is as Pretty does! If you do right
then people will do right by you." This is one of value systems I had
instilled in my soul as a child. But the other side is a Miss Goody
Two Shoes attitude that I can do no wrong. This can be unhealthy too.

6. Do I value myself on my clothes?
We all deal with peer pressure on name brands. Do you think you are
only dressed when you are wearing someone's brand?

7. Do I value myself on my portfolio?
Is your self-worth actually built upon your value of your retirement
plan? If so you have had a lot of struggle with the stock market
since your world has been shaken. Look at what happen in history with
the crash of 1929. You are not your portfolio or how much money you
make any more than you are the sum of the value of all your stuff!!!
What are your real assets anyway?

8. Do I value myself on how much I saved when I shopped?
I am guilty of this one. When we value ourselves on what we save:
then passing on a bargain is next to impossible. We are prosperous in
proportion to what we can do without.

9. Do I value myself on how much I can spend?
Do you have ready cash that you can just blow without any thought to
a rainy day? Does spending money make you feel powerful? Does your
credit card limit give you pride? Watch out you may find yourself in
debt up to the eyeballs with this value system.

10. Do I value myself on how much I earn?
If you are not working and making money do you feel less of a person
because you are not contributing to the household. If you are working
and making money, does this some how make you a better person than if
you were not working and making money? Are you always scheming to
find other ways to make more money? Is there ever enough money? Could
there ever be??? This hits right to core!

11. Do I value myself on how much more I earn than my spouse?
Now this attitude I have had thrown at me by an ex-husband, "I make
more than you, so your opinion doesn't count." Do you secretly keep
tabs of who makes more in your home? Or do you openly play this
game? What value system are you teaching your children?

12. Do I value myself on my church work?
Doing good works is a commendable thing, but doing it to be seen in
the eyes of man is not. Think about your reasons for doing things: I
had to once and it was a big eye-opener for me. Examine your heart.

13. Do I value myself on other volunteer jobs?
I have heard myself in the past list my volunteer jobs as if they
were a badge of honor. If they are taking away from your family and
you, then their value structure needs to be examined.

14. Do I value myself on how my house looks?
When your home is messy do you feel worse than when it is clean about
yourself? I know what you are going to say, because I believe that
all of us have this problem or we would not be searching for the
answer to our CHAOS. We have to remember that we are not our clean
or dirty homes. As you establish your routines and your home starts
cleaning itself, you are going to catch yourself becoming compulsive
about the cleanliness of your home. Do not fall into the trap of
being fussy and yelling at your family. It is just a house and a
little mess that can be picked up in a few short minutes. This
feeling that the state of your home is in some way how you value
yourself as a person is not a good value system either: We have all
done this and will continue until we really start FLYing. Overly
clean or messy is a symptom of the same lack of love.

15. Do I value myself on what kind of car I drive?
Do you have to have the latest car on the market? Or do you pride
yourself in driving cars until the wheels fall off? Here we go again
there has to be balance. Neither one is good.

16. Do I value myself on what kind of house I live in?
Is it brick or a cabin in the woods? Is it better than what you lived
in as a child or what your parents have? Does it matter at all?

17. Do I value myself on where I live?
As a friend told me the other day: many people base their self-worth
on their zipcode; Do you live on the wrong side of the tracks or do
they? If you catch yourself asking this question then stop and think
about this.

18. Do I value myself on how I purchased my furniture?
We love auctions and I have found that there is pride attached to how
much I paid for this piece of furniture. I wouldn't dare tell someone
what I paid in a furniture store for the same piece, so I have had to
ask myself what is going on here.

19. Do I value myself on good grades in school?
Good grades do not make us anything but smart. Yes it is fine to
praise a child for good grades, but their self-worth is based on so
much more. Do they become less than if they don't understand a
subject and struggle? Having to struggle makes us stronger.

20. Do I value myself by my friends?
Do you have lots of friends or none? Do you feel bad because you
don't know anyone or do you have more friends than you can actually
be friends with. You know what I am talking about: being pulled in
many directions and having squabbles over nothing.

21. Do I value myself on my hair?
Wow this one hits home. My hair used to be down to my waist. This was
23 years ago and my whole self worth was in my hair. Kind of like
Samson; When I got it cut I felt bad about me. We are not our hair
whether it is short and sassy or long and beautiful. It is hair:
Nothing more and nothing less. Now we need to keep it combed and
looking nice so we don't scare ourselves when we look in the mirror
and see our mothers, but don't overdo it.

22. Do I value myself on my nails?
Been there and done that! 11 years ago I had grown my nails long and
kept them painted and manicured because it was part of my job as a
beauty consultant. I couldn't very well sell nail polish without
having pretty nails. The problem came when I would break a nail and
how I would hide my hands so people would not see my imperfections.
How sick is that. When I realized that I was not doing things I loved
because my nails might get damaged then I cut them all off and said
this is for the birds.

23. Do I value myself on how well I do one thing? Motherhood? Staying
married longer than your mother?
What happens when your babies sprout their own wings and leave the
nest? Do you have to deal with empty nest syndrome by overspending to
get them home occasionally or to buy back their attention? What
happens when all your self-worth is bound up in being a mother? Who
are you after they leave home? Don't lose yourself in being just a
mother; you are much more than this honorable profession.

My parents stayed married for 12 years. When I married the first time
my goal was to stay married longer than them. What do we put
ourselves through for these mistaken value systems? What does it do
to our children to see two people going through the motions and not
really loving themselves or each other? How sad to live this way. It
would have been much better for everyone if we had had the courage to
say enough and we all deserve to be happy.

24. Do I value myself on how well I do a sport?
How sad is it that young high school student's best days of his or
her life are excelling in a sport? What have they got to look forward
too? I prided myself in being a good flyfisherman, but that was not
what I was best at. I loved the teaching of flyfishing or shall I say
teaching. I don't have to teach or flyfish any more to have a sense
of pride at what I am good at, but my whole life does not revolve
around this.

25. Do I value myself on how much weight I have lost?
We have all gained or lost weigh in our lives. It was only when I
quit trying to lose weight that my weight stabilized. No more ups and
downs, I am happy with myself. Is your self worth based on your size?

26. Do I value myself on how punctual I am?
Do you beat yourself up when you are late or do you take great pride
in being on time that you continually put others down for their
tardiness? Look at your control issues here on both sides of the
coin.

27. Do I value myself on how I manage my time?
Do you go right by a schedule and you cannot veer off course at all?
How does it make you feel when you don't have time or you cannot make
the time to squeeze something in. Are you rigid, flexible, or overly
spontaneous? There has to be a balance to this or you are not much
fun at all.

As I have examined all of the ways that we can put value on our
lives, I have come to the conclusion that to everything there is
balance. The extremes are not a good value system, but maybe it is
the culmination of all of these characteristics that make us whole
and our value system is not on one currency but many things. Kind of
like a foundation is made up of many bricks and these parts of our
personality are just one of the many bricks that build us up. When
one of these characteristics gets out of whack then our foundation
will begin to crumble. We have all heard that a chain is as strong as
its weakest link. Don't let your foundation of your being be built
upon one brick that can crumble and shake your foundation.

In all my mulling over, I came up with my test for me as to whether
my foundations are on a firm ground. This may not work for everyone,
but this is how I judge myself.

When I lay my head down on my pillow, can I fall asleep easily or do
I lay there and replay the day, dwelling on a problem or something I
may have said. If I cannot sleep or wake up in the middle of the
night with a thought then I have to deal with it. Now don't email me
complaining that you have a sleep disorder and this won't work for
you. I said this is how I judge myself. It is up to you to find your
personal test for your firm foundations.

I want for you what I have; Peace and this peace came from FLYing:
Finally loving myself with all my warts.

FlyLady
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Old 11-09-2003, 08:56 AM   #165  
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North West England
Posts: 113

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Hiya peple oh I've seen finding nemo it's brilliant absolutely brialliant as you can tell the machine is not a lot better but it's taking me ages to edit so if you don't mind deciphering gobbledegook then that's ok

Sorry about your great aunt she will always remain "alive" tho' through your wonderful memories

My local footy (sorry soccer) team are actually on BB1 even as I type it's a major event

WSW maybe a personal alarm may be useful too nasty person to do that to you

Well you are all putting me to shame with the amount of exercise that's going on I shall return to the gym had a couple of days off due to the cold which feels like it's going onto my chest bah!

Right have to do some ironing before i run out of clothes

Godess I shall check out the solstice thread
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