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Topic 3 - Would You Rather?

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Old 06-22-2007, 09:48 AM   #46
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Oh, you are appealing to my (considerable) vanity by asking. Thanks.

I did capture it on DVD & upload the segment on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKFQnTSMcs (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avnqk4-xaw0 (part 2)

It was the Gill Deacon Show, a CBC afternoon talk show. She's been cancelled now though I believe. The show was on in May.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:08 PM   #47
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Very good! Thanks Valerie, I enjoyed that.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #48
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Wow Valerie, what a great interview. Thanks for sharing it with us. It's terrific that we can view it online on YouTube. If you want to see mine talking about my artwork, just search for Carolyn Vehslage. It was taken by my Dad last September when I was at least 20 pounds heavier.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:19 PM   #49
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Hi Valerie, I could tell that it looked like tape footage instead of film, like most of our photo images are. You also look like you were speaking, and it just seemed so OPRAH to me!! I look forward to watching the interview clips from you and Carolyn too!
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:19 PM   #50
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"In one now classic study, Colleen Rand, an obesity researcher at the University of Florida, asked forty-seven formerly fat men and women whether they would rather be obese again or have some other disability. Every one of them said they would rather be deaf or have dyslexia, diabetes, bad acne, or heart disease than be obese again. Ninety-one said they would rather have a leg amputated. Eighty-nine percent would rather be blind. (p 69)"

Gina Kolata should have let her readers know that the study group was comprised only of WLS people. What's also missing is how long they have maintained how much weight lost. Do we know from other studies what the success rate of WLS is? How much weight lost can be maintained for how long?

Another thing ...

To me, it was disappointing that Gina Kolata devoted so many chapters to following the stories of a few people of the U Penn study, but didn't wait until the conclussions of that study were published to print her own book.

It seemed that she hand picked Carmen Pirollo, Jerry Gordon, Ron Kraus, and Gaziella Mann to support her own view that those who diet will eventually regain all if not more of the weight.

She also didn't use any of the data from the National Weight Control Registry.
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:11 PM   #51
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Okay, I got a copy of the article on interlibrary loan. The patients:

[47 patients] lost 45 kg (100 lb) or more and who successfully maintained weight loss for at least three years following gastric restrictive surgery for morbid obesity...


and the summary:
This study suggests that patients who successfully maintain weight loss following obesity surgery consider morbid obesity a tremendous personal liability. These are people who feel that being normal weight provides them with more desired options than being multi-millionaires. It is probably that patients' intense preference for being normal weight continues to assist them maintain the required control over their eating behaviors.
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:14 PM   #52
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Pat -- great!

Does it specify anywhere how the questions were worded??
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:22 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyllenn View Post
Pat -- great!

Does it specify anywhere how the questions were worded??
That is the question!!! We want answers!!!

The way it was posed initially (100 pounds overweight permanently vs having some other disability permanently) is very different from being at your highest weight ever permanently vs living with some other disability permanently.

Waiting, baited breath and all...
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:36 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValerieL View Post
The 100 lbs was more of a minimum not a specific. I meant it as a yardstick for those on the thread that have never experienced obesity in that degree. I think for those of us who have been 100 or more plus pounds, we would naturally be considering the question from the viewpoint of permanently weighing the most that we ever weighed. As, I assume, I know we don't know for sure, the gastric bypass patients in the original study probably did.
I didn't naturally assume that, and I "experience obesity to that degree".

I took the question to mean "obese" not "the most obese you ever were".

Lets take the example of a woman whose "ideal" weight is 150 pounds. 100 pounds overweight would put her at 250 pounds. 250 seems so much more livable than 350. While both may be "obese" weights, there is a big difference between weighing 250 and 350! Personally, I look and feel pretty great at 250. 200 is better in so many ways, but is still considered "overweight" by the ridiculous BMI charts and 98% of society. Still, I think that being 250 permanently would be much better than being blind or missing a limb.

Again, it will be very interesting to see what the actual question asked of all those people who lost 100+ pounds was.
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:24 PM   #55
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Okay, here's what they did:

They asked "mine-thine" questions, and participants were "asked to identify their own worst handicap or disability. This handicap ("mine") is then paired with other disabilities ("thine"). . . The mine-thine choices consisted of seven forced choices between morbid obesity and being normal weight with each of the followsing: needing a hearing aid (deaf), very bad acne, heart disease, unable to read (dyslexic), being diabetic (requiring insulin), being legally blind, and having one leg amputated. Patients were told: 'In the following questions, being morbidly obese is paired with being of normal weight with a disability. Choose the one you would prefer to have in each pair if both were permanent.'" The 47 patients (39 women, 8 men, all patients of the same doctor) were interviewed by phone, all by the same nurse, for about 1/2 hour. "The questionnaire focused on patient behaviors that were thought to be important in successful maintenance of weight loss." None of that data is in this article, though.

So, Soulbliss, the obesity was actually the weight they were, not just obese or 100 lbs extra, etc.

Another part of the article notes:

Patients in this study do not represent a general sample of morbidly obese adults. Rather, they are representative of the select group of morbidly obese adults who elect surgery for obesity and who are able to comply with post-operative eating behavior changes. Among this group, very few were willing to reclaim their former disability of morbid obesity in forced-choice pairs. It goes on to note that all these people had marked improvements in many areas of their lives, and were perhaps unwilling to go back to the "experienced social oppobrium directed towards them when they were morbidly obese."

I actually have this article as a (mediocre quality) PDF, and would share it - it's only 3 pages long. PM me your email if you'd like it.
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Old 06-25-2007, 09:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
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So, Soulbliss, the obesity was actually the weight they were, not just obese or 100 lbs extra, etc.
Thanks, I can see that.

This doesn't clear things up, really. I now simply have more questions and ultimately I see the questions they posed as really flawed. I wonder why they chose to conduct the study as they did, over the phone etc.

Also, how is being dyslexic equal to being unable to read??? Would the leg be amputated below, at or above the knee?

Did they screen the patients to determine that they didn't suffer with one of the disabilities mentioned?

I'll be sending you a PM with my email address now.
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:24 PM   #57
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Pat -- Wow, so it really was about permanent obesity vs disability!

I'm glad the authors discussed how the participants might not be like other people, even other morbidly obese people. Of course, that disclaimer didn't make it into Kolata's book.

SoulBliss -- I'm guessing they did it over the phone because the participants weren't local and that was the easiest way to reach them. You raised some excellent questions about the questions themselves...

I often find that when you ask the question "How did they measure it?" that you often find more questions are raised.

My conclusion about this particular study is that, without replication, I can't take it too seriously as representing the views of morbidly obese people. I would be curious to see how it replicated and whether people who opt for surgery (and are successful) are different from others.

But what's interesting is that this research was presented in the book as a "classic" study, and it doesn't feel that way to me. But look at what we had to do to figure that out!

What do others think?? Am I being too critical here of this description as a "classic"?
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:56 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyllenn View Post
But what's interesting is that this research was presented in the book as a "classic" study, and it doesn't feel that way to me. But look at what we had to do to figure that out!

What do others think?? Am I being too critical here of this description as a "classic"?
No, I don't think you are being to critical at all...I feel as you do...but then again I am a Psychology person too (not a Professor like you, but a degree-holding "buff" all the same ).
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:40 AM   #59
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Having been diagnosed 3 yrs. ago as permanently disabled due to my liver disease, I feel like I've lived on both sides of this coin. Yes, I lost the weight . It was actually killing me. I still live with the liver disease, but I'm much healthier now than I was then. I am happier. I'm able to physically do more and mentally handle more.

I would choose a permanent disability over being obese again. That may seem selfish to some, but at my previous wt. and in my previous health status, I wasn't living, I was waiting to DIE.

OTOH, if I were a reasonably healthy person and my obesity was the only factor that I was considering, I might choose differently.
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:49 AM   #60
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Perhaps this critical streak is what helps us ???
Having enough of a jaundiced eye to sift through the reams of information there is out there and find something that works for us ???
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