Ceaser Millan

[Loriann7]

OK, I've heard "The Dog Whisperer" from several people but always dismissed it as hype. Today I was directed to a youtube of one of his episodes, so I watched. As with many reality shows it all looks good for the camera, but...

I'm not able to swallow some of what he teaches.

I'm wondering if anyone knows the FOLLOWUP stories behind those dogs he's "treated"....

It seems to me to be a quick fix.

Please, let me know your thoughts.

[tigerente]

There is nothing new about cesar's training techniques. For decades people have been using dominance and pack theories when training dogs. There are lots of studies done that dogs do not create packs like wolves and this is where a lot of the theories have come from, from studying wild wolves. However, I do agree that he is correct about establishing boundaries, giving proper exersize and not spoiling dogs. There are a lot of easy ways of implimenting boundaries into a dogs life. Make them sit before meals, make them sit before going through a door way, putting rules on how and when they can get onto furniture, etc.
There is loads of information out there on conditioning dogs, some terms to look up is counter conditioning, operant conditioning, positive and negative reinforcement, the list goes on, but once you look up some of that info, you will see how much stuff there is out there to learn!
The other typical training method that has been around for ages is positive reinforcement. Which now is used a lot with clicker training. They started clicker training with dolphins in the military like 50 years ago. It spread to zoos and finally into dog training a couple of decades ago.
One great book to start with is Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson. It explores the relationship between man and dog that you thought you understood, but you didn't really.
Happy learning!

[Loriann7]

Don't misunderstand me, Jade is not my first dog, and is quite the companion. I just was curious what others thought of Millan as so far I'm NOT impressed.

[junebug41]

BIG Cesar Millan fan, here.

Yes, his practices work IF you show consistent follow-through. I admit, I don't always do this, but there are a few things that we have implemented that we've had success with- like whenever we leave or enter the house with him or any time he gets out of the car he sits to "ask permission". His also must sit before he eats. We've found that teaching him to exercise restraint and making him think all the time helps with other things. SInce we are consistent with our reactions and follow through and what we expect of him, it's easier for him to know what we're asking of him. And he's just really smart

I recommend reading one of his books, "Cesar's Way". He explains how and where he learned to work with dogs. I think it's easier to understand his practices from the book rather than the show as he's able to delve more deeply into it.

[mandalinn82]

His methods have been used with my FIL's dogs, and they've had incredible improvements in behavior since. I don't know what that says about him, but his methods do appear to have an impact.

[Loriann7]

JUNE, the NILIF is not new to "Ceaser Millan"...

[Ruthxxx]

He knows his stuff but follow-up must be consistent. There's a show on Slice.ca called "At The End Of My Leash" that's similar.

We communicate with words whereas dogs use body language - that's key. There's a book called "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell that I think is just excellent. She's at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and I've met her several times. She seems to know her stuff.

[junebug41]

Thank you. I'm aware of that.

Perhaps I should clarify so I'm not opening myself up to feel like an idiot.

What I learned from his books is that our culture tends to "humanize" dogs. I found it helpful because I did not grow up with dogs (which is not the case with you). I would not have thought to train my dog with a pack mentality so it really shaped how I view the dog-human relationship (which to a dog is dog-dog).

Due to his history with dogs and upbringing, his methods, IMHO, are more straight forward and "sensible" than most trainers I have seen.

But you probably already knew all that

[Loriann7]

Awe June,.. ((june)) hugs hun, I didn't mean that I know "it all>" and I'm sorry it came across as such!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please forgive me?

[zenor77]

Personally, I find Cesar Milian's approach to be aggressive and too punishment based. It just doesn't sit well with me, so I've never tried them. Granted, I haven't read any of his books. I've watched his show a few times, but I just don't care for his approach.

I have a friend who tried his methods (specifically the alpha dog roll over thing) and all it got her was a dog bite. It's possible that she was doing something wrong, but that whole maneuver seems excessive to me anyway.

As far as celebrity dog trainers go, I much prefer Victoria Stilwell from "It's Me or The Dog."

[junebug41]

I'm back from my trip off the handle

I guess what I should have explained was that for me, someone who had never ever owned a dog, it was very helpful especially since he was a rescue, a high energy breed, and has behavioral issues like seperation anxiety.
Having someone like him explain the methods in a direct, straight-forward and sensible way saved us a lot of frustration.

[junebug41]

She's the Brittish lady, isn't she? I really like her and agree that her methods aren't quite as aggressive, but she still gets results.

[nelie]

Our local animal shelter speaks very poorly of Ceasar Milan because they don't agree with his methods. I've never seen an entire episode, only bits and pieces, so I can't really speak of it. I did hear a really good lecture on why punishment training doesn't work and positive training is really the way to go.

[junebug41]

Nelie, at first I didn't know what you meant so I did a google search and I got a lot of info! I had no idea there was that much controversy over his techniques. Personally, I would never use a shock or choke collar because I don't think they accomplish much and I wouldn't use physical aggression because the breed I have has an extraordinarily high pain tolerance so it would be pretty useless anyway (not to mention it teaches fear, which can present a whole new set of behavioral issues). Our dog is terrified of things like the tv remote and cell phones, leading us to believe he was tased. Not only was he not well-behaved, but when we first got him he was so scared all the time that we were going to hit him

As far as holding the dog down to gain control, that's something that their mothers would do so it's a behavior that they are familiar with. But I wouldn't run out and tell someone with a large, aggressive dog to do that.

I think that the humane groups made enough noise that National Geographic made him soften his techniques because as a fairly recent convert I didn't get that he was aggressive, just "calm and assertive"

[tigerente]

Originally Posted by Loriann7

Don't misunderstand me, Jade is not my first dog, and is quite the companion. I just was curious what others thought of Millan as so far I'm NOT impressed.

That's cool, I was mostly trying to convey what I thought about him! I personally think his dedication is admirable, and his stressing exersize is great, but, I too don't think that strictly using dominance, will get a normal person very far with dog training. I think they edit out a lot of things and people then think, oh hey, this sounds easy! And they get it all wrong because they don't do any research.
But what I have learned about dog behavior and training over the years is that no one method works. Most dogs need a combination of methods and consistancy is key (like some one said!) And some one else said that they would only use positive reinforcement, and no punishment. To a dog, ignoring them is punishment. If they do a behavior incorrectly and you say uh uh, or withhold a treat or ignore them until they do what you want, that is a pretty harsh punishment for most dogs. So even positive reinforcement uses negative reinforcers a lot. On the other hand, punishment does not, and should not ever be yelling or hitting, which thankfully atleast Ceaser doesn't do that!
I just think the way dogs learn is facintating!