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Momentum plan dissed at WW meeting today

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Old 08-24-2011, 12:08 PM   #1
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Question Momentum plan dissed at WW meeting today

I was surpised that for the first time my WW leader talked negatively about the Momentum plan. The topic of the day was plateaus, and she had a list of different "types" of people, example, "free fruiters" who fill up on too much fruit. One of the types was "plan snobs" who felt they were too good to use Points Plus, that they were sticking with the Momentum Plan. "Points Plus is SO MUCH BETTER" ...."its like using still using a landline phone instead of a smart phone."
I was a little put-out by her analogy. I don't like fancy gadgets and have a very basic no camera, no texting, cell phone. I do not live on technology. I've been using computers since 1974 and honestly, I am sick of them.

Interestingly, she did say she had people who turned down the free weekly tracker pamphlet because the were on the old plan. It was sort of uncharacteristic for her to make the sort of snide comments she did for making this point. I wonder if WW has ordered their leaders to deliver propaganda actively discouraging members from using the old points plan.

Their latest book on vegetables was the first time I have ever encountered a WW recipe book that didn't give full nutritional values, just the Points Plus for the recipes, making it difficult to compute the points if you wanted. Seems a disservice to those who really might need the actual nutritional values, such as diabetics who need to know carb levels.

Anyone else have this in their meeting?
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:42 PM   #2
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Never forget that above all else, WW is a business (which is why they have no problem selling you their junky food products, even though they are in no way beneficial to your overall health) and business survive by convincing you need the newest of whatever they have to offer. It is no doubt in her weekly talking points to keep moving people to the new system. It's how they make money and making money is their job. Selling you the idea that WW cares about you and it's some kind of altruistic public service is just part of the genius of marketing.

I haven't been to a meeting in a while (moved, busy) but never forget, when you're making your choices, that their whole reason for existing is NOT to help you live a better life, but to separate you from your money. I'm not saying WW is a bad plan or that one WW plan is better than another (people lost weight on WW back in the 70s when they had to eat liver once a week, clearly all the plans "work" at getting the weight off) but they exist to sell to you and convince you that you need what they have. If they change it, then those people (the bulk of their customers) who will be on WW and lose/regain the same 20 pounds for ten or fifteen years (not a knock on WW dieters, just my experience in meetings is that most people have been in WW forever and have lost/regained over and over, myself included) will keep having to buy new things and that's the whole point.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:43 PM   #3
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This very issue, is one of the reasons I got disillusioned with Weight Watchers, and had to find something else.

I don't mean about this specific program, because the new WW plan is the only WW plan I have not followed since I joined WW for the first time in 1972, at 8 years old with my mother (at that time, 8 was the youngest age WW would accept and only with a doctor's note and with a parent also in the program).

I've seen this happens every time WW rolls out a new program. Some leaders will be more diplomatic, and will have a "don't ask, don't tell," policy - but they couldn't and wouldn't support or allow members to discuss the old plan during the meeting. Other leaders would bash the old plan, and try to sell members on how much better the new plan was - often implying that anyone following the old plan was doomed to failure (which seems rather ludicrous since leaders would also talk about all the success WW had from the beginning - so which is it - have WW plans been successful way to lose weight for decades, or is the only way to succeed the new way, and if so how can WW claim credit for helping people lose wieght before the new plan was implemented?

It does make sense from a business standpoint, and WW is a business. Just like when a software company updates software, they stop supporting the old version, because it makes business sense to do so. It's confusing and costly to train employees on a current and obsolete system - and obsolete does not mean the old program didn't work or will stop working for those who like it - but the company is going to do everything they can to convince you that the upgrade is necessary, and one way they do it is by withdrawing support of the old system.

I've seen it happen over and over again in WW, and while I've tried all of WW plans (except the newest, current point system), my favorite plans were the ones that preceded points. I loved the exchange systems, because they were so easy to use, and the exchanges were the same as those used by all other exchange plans (all of which are based on the exchange plan created by the American Diabetes Association and the American Dietetics Association in the 1950's).

It was awesome, because all exchange plans were (and most still are) the same, so you could use any exchange plan cookbook, virtually interchangeably. I suspect that may have been one of the reasons for the switch, that as a business it made more sense to create a plan that WW could own and control and prevent others from using.

When WW first went to points from exchanges, their cookbooks also stopped listing nutritional information, and just listed the points. It drove me crazy, because I had learned how to calculate exchanges from a nutrition label within a few minutes. To translate the new recipes into exchanges I had to look up every ingredient and then do the math.

When I found TOPS (taking off pounds sensibly), I was relieved the non-profit club allowed members to follow any sensible diet plan they wished to (exchange plans as well as "obsolete" and current Weight Watchers programs are amongh the most popular).

It's too bad that WW doesn't at least offer dual support for a year or so, to help people transition, but some people don't want to transition, and they're left either in "don't ask, don't tell" no-man's-sland, doing it on their own, or finding a support group of other "old-planners" like themselves.
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Old 08-24-2011, 04:20 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplods View Post
It's too bad that WW doesn't at least offer dual support for a year or so, to help people transition, but some people don't want to transition, and they're left either in "don't ask, don't tell" no-man's-sland, doing it on their own, or finding a support group of other "old-planners" like themselves.
This. I do wish they'd offer a year of transition or something like that.

Their plans work, obviously, or no one would lose weight on any of them. Back from the way beginning until the newest one today. They all work.

That being said, some of them are clearly going to work better for different people.

I'm sorry that your leader seemed to be bashing the old plan, maybe she personally didn't like the old plan as much as she does the Points Plus? Leaders are only human.

Plus it might be a corporate thing, they likely aren't allowed to support the old plan in any way in order to promote the Points Plus.

Hopefully this faux pas won't keep you from your meetings.
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:28 PM   #5
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Weight Watchers threw out the Momentum Plan so why are you going there if you don't do the plan. Sounds like you are throwing your money away. Would you pay for cell phone service if you only had a landline? PP is much better than Momentum so get off the dead horse.
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:30 PM   #6
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I have kept it off for nearly 40 years. The reason people gain is because they eat for the wrong reasons or too much and make poor choices. It's not WW fault. They sure haven't made money on me. Be careful of what you say because you could end up in court for bashing WW unfairly. You can say it doesn't work for you but you can't say some of the things I've seen here.
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:35 PM   #7
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WW is a business and no matter what type of business they are striving to promote new product and make money BUT I have been on WW several times and lost 78lbs on the old plan, although I am following the PointsPlus plan right now I don't think the others should be forgotten about...THEY WORK, plain and simple, and if people feel more comfortable on them then so be it, its their choice! They are still paying for the meetings, etc!
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:42 PM   #8
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I have kept it off for nearly 40 years. The reason people gain is because they eat for the wrong reasons or too much and make poor choices. It's not WW fault. They sure haven't made money on me. Be careful of what you say because you could end up in court for bashing WW unfairly. You can say it doesn't work for you but you can't say some of the things I've seen here.
I'm not sure who you're talking to or what horrible things you think have been said, but no one has made an accusations. WW is a business. Period.

I never said it was the fault of the program that people fail. Even WW has to acknowledge that most of it's members fail (true of any diet). That's what the whole *results no typical thing is about.

Pretty much ANY diet works if you stick to it (yes, yes, disclaimer about people with special circumstances or health issues).
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:17 PM   #9
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No one here has said anything illegal. You can only get in legal or financial trouble for "bashing" a business if what you say is untrue AND the business can prove that they lost money because of your untrue statements. Even if a person lied outright, the company can only win a civil complaint against you, if they can prove that they lost revenue because of your lies.

No one here is telling lies, we're only sharing opinions, and WW, like any other business succeeds by listening to the opinions of customers and former customers. I have no illusions that WW is monitoring 3FC to hear what we say about the company, but it certainly wouldn't hurt their business to do so.

WW doesn't get to be a company of it's size and reputation without listening to the opinions and even complaints of customers and former customers.

I wouldn't be surprised if WW eventually does support more than one type of food plan. They stand to make a whole lot more money than they already do, if they would. They don't have to of course, but they can't be hurt by a few people discussing things about the business we wish were different. Legitimate companies welcome feedback, even criticism (even by former customers).

I've written to WW corporate several times in my life, to offer praise for things I liked, and suggestions and criticisms for things I didn't, and they were always very cordial about it. Not once was I threatened with a lawsuit for being an unsatisfied customer, and even when my criticisms were harsh, I was always thanked for them. That's a company I can respect, even if I don't agree with them on every product and service they offer.

For me, the accountability and support of the weekly meeting and weigh-in is far more important to my success than the food plan, so when WW was the only option for that support, I paid my weekly dues. I followed my own food plan, and couldn't discuss it with the group. I felt like a hypocrite, especially when I was praised in the group for weight loss "proving what the program can do," but that was the emotional price I had to pay to get the weekly support.

When I found TOPS (which allows you to follow any plan you wish, though they support an exchange plan in their manual which is an optional purchase), I didn't have to settle for a partial support system. I was able to follow my food plan and discuss it in my support group (and do so, at less than $7 per month).

That doesn't mean WW is a bad product, it just means that I consider TOPS a better and cheaper one (and there's nothing illegal or immoral about saying that).

Out of respect (and because I believe it's against the rules), I try not to criticise any diet plan in that plan's thread here on 3FC, and while I did make some mild criticisms of WW, I think I still succeeded in that (though some may think I'm splitting hairs).

This is the Momentum/Flex thread - and I have not criticised Momentum or Flex in this thread, because I think that would be inappropriate, but that doesn't mean holding back honest and potentially helpful feedback, even if it's not 100% positive. We all have to find what works, and if that means paying for and attending WW meetings, while following a modified version of the plan (or just going there for the weekly support and weigh-in), then that's what we should do. Our ultimate responsibility is to our success, however that is acheived.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:36 AM   #10
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WW has stopped supporting a lot of their old plans, but if the old plans are working for someone...and that someone enjoys the group atmosphere of the WW meeting, I do not see how they would be wasting their money.

It works for them.

Heck, as an example: a person could, if they really wanted to, start using Atkins and going to Weight Watchers meetings at the same time. Now, they cannot expect that WW will ever endorse Atkins. Nor will they expect to be given specific advice if that person struggles with the Atkins plan, but they will have a room full of people who are trying to lose weight or maintain, and perhaps the user likes that atmosphere.

If it helps them lose weight, in their mind that's not wasting money.

Old plans are not necessarily bad plans. They're just old plans. At some point PP will be replaced with "the next level"... maybe something that doesn't include points in any way! Will it be better? Who knows? Because "better" is a very subjective thing.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:53 AM   #11
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I attended 2 of these plateau topic meetings this week. Sunday and today. Prior plans were not mentioned at the first. At today's the only mention was...make a stand. Pick one or the other or the other or the other-- just don't pick and choose from 2 or more and combine your own frankenstein version and be disappointed if/when said plan fails.

I totally get that if something is working for you, you don't want to mess with it. If you mess with it and get good results, you're converted. If the new plan doesn't work for you, your options are stick with the old on your own, or do same and continue to go to meetings where, plan-wise, you cannot expect to get "program" support. If you're lucky enough to have a leader who has been around a few years and is very knowledgeable, you'll be able to pick their brains for a while...but after some time has passed, even the most indulgent leader isn't going to assist. WWPP is, in the U.S., entering its 9th month and the company and its personnel want to move on. However, I didn't feel any disrespect for any prior plan, nor any current member who lost on a prior plan. I think your leader could have chosen her wording more carefully--I doubt she intended to insult anyone.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:59 AM   #12
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I didn't take it as an insult, just thought it was weird behavior on her part.

I think for me it is like kabolds said: "For me, the accountability and support of the weekly meeting and weigh-in is far more important to my success than the food plan, so when WW was the only option for that support, I paid my weekly dues. I followed my own food plan, and couldn't discuss it with the group. I felt like a hypocrite, especially when I was praised in the group for weight loss "proving what the program can do," but that was the emotional price I had to pay to get the weekly support."

I will check out TOPS, but right now the great leader, and the geographic convenience of the WW center nearby keeps me inclined to stay with WW. I might eventually go back to PP, but right now, using Momentum again is working better for me. Zero point fruit is not a great incentive to me; sometimes I feel like I'm the only one on the planet who doesn't like bananas....

I will finish with the comment that I posted here to get feedback and support from other users of Momentum. Being told to go back to PointsPlus is not helpful, nor appreciated. I am not an idiot who is too stupid to make her own decisions. PointsPlus users have lots of places to post on 3Fatchicks, not to mention the official WW site. They shouldn't feel the need to come here and convince us of the errors of our ways...just sayin'

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Old 08-25-2011, 11:20 AM   #13
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I do wish they had more support for changing plans or at least the option to still do the old plan for a few months. I was doing fairly well on WW a few years ago and just hitting my stride when they had a plan change (another time I got pregnant, can't blame WW for that one!) and it was just like, UGH. I don't want to learn something NEW!
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:30 AM   #14
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DISCLAIMER - I am someone who was on Momentum, and never on PointsPlus, but I have read through a lot of the welcoming material for PP.

It seems like if you eat a whole foods momentum diet (which is generally what I do), it's the same as PP. I haven't done out the math, but it doesn't seem like anything would change substantially.

I remember feeling odd at WW meetings because there was a lot of focus on new and improved junk food that was 1 point or 2 points, when I didn't feel like there was much nutritional value to those foods. Changing the actual point value of the junk so that it's less enticing (more points) makes members less likely to choose it.

Has anyone that did eat a whole foods diet on a previous plan figured out their point values on both just for comparison's sake?
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:35 PM   #15
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I do wish they had more support for changing plans or at least the option to still do the old plan for a few months. I was doing fairly well on WW a few years ago and just hitting my stride when they had a plan change (another time I got pregnant, can't blame WW for that one!) and it was just like, UGH. I don't want to learn something NEW!
Exactly! I did WW ten years ago with points and again last year. I have a lot of points values memorized and was very comfortable with the system. I dislike electronic gadgets, and the buttons on the PP gadget were way too small. I am a small business owner trying to keep alive in this rotten economy, and it is stressful enough trying to lose weight without having to learn a new system. On PP I was fighting the same 3 pounds for 4 months. Its only when I switched back to Momentum did I start to lose again. I think there were just too many food points available to me and it threw off my habits and system. Maybe I sound like an old fogey, but I don't care!
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