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Old 02-23-2011, 02:10 PM   #16
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Faulty science example: "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."
From where did you get this quote? I can't find it in on either the Ideal Protein site or literature they provided.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by chris250 View Post
From where did you get this quote? I can't find it in on either the Ideal Protein site or literature they provided.
Ideal Protein Diet - FAQ

Post #5. Dated 2008. Glad they have figured it out.
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:12 PM   #18
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Ideal Protein Diet - FAQ

Post #5. Dated 2008. Glad they have figured it out.
After reading the study I think the conclusion they gave (and you quoted) is misleading where it relates to the IP statement. Though it fits their study goal it doesn't necessarily relate to the comment mentioned in the IP info.

The study wanted to determine if there was a difference in fatty acid production due to overfeeding of carbs to lean vs. obese test subjects. This isn't really what IP had in mind.

There may be no significant fat storage in that case but I didn't see anything in the study to suggest the IP statement you quote in incorrect. I did see several comments that seem to say fat is stored from unused carb intake.

I certainly didn't understand the entire thing but gleaned what I could. Feel free to quote portions of the study where I'm wrong which wouldn't surprise me - I damn near feel asleep more than once trying to get through it.

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Old 02-24-2011, 01:44 PM   #19
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There may be no significant fat storage in that case but I didn't see anything in the study to suggest the IP statement you quote in incorrect. I did see several comments that seem to say fat is stored from unused carb intake.

I certainly didn't understand the entire thing but gleaned what I could. Feel free to quote portions of the study where I'm wrong which wouldn't surprise me - I damn near feel asleep more than once trying to get through it.
The point of that study is that massive over feeding of carbs created no signifigant amount of fat which flys in the face of the IP statement. In the context of someone who is in a caloric deficit (as they are when they are dieting) carbs are not turned into fat. It is only after massive carb over feeding over several days that an insignifigant amount of fat is produced from carbs in humans. This guy talks about the study in simple terms and there are links to other studies that produce similar results. Massive carb overfeeding leads to insignifigant amounts of fat being created.

This isn't complicated. The IP statement is false. However, if you want to believe the earth is flat you can probably convince yourself of that too.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:27 PM   #20
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The point of that study is that massive over feeding of carbs created no signifigant amount of fat which flys in the face of the IP statement. In the context of someone who is in a caloric deficit (as they are when they are dieting) carbs are not turned into fat. It is only after massive carb over feeding over several days that an insignifigant amount of fat is produced from carbs in humans. This guy talks about the study in simple terms and there are links to other studies that produce similar results. Massive carb overfeeding leads to insignifigant amounts of fat being created.

This isn't complicated. The IP statement is false. However, if you want to believe the earth is flat you can probably convince yourself of that too.
You said it yourself (highlighted). However, IP doesn't deal with or talk about "massive over-feeding" but rather eating any carbs at all. See John, IP is a diet.

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Old 02-24-2011, 09:42 PM   #21
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Hello,
This thread was started by the OP seeking information from people who are on or who have been on IP. Please review the following thread about agreeing to disagree:
Support Policy - Agree to Disagree

Thank you for your understanding.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:12 PM   #22
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To follow up on what midwife said.

Diet plans are a lot like politics and religion – everyone thinks that theirs is the right way. Unlike most diet sites, 3FC supports all healthy weight loss plans so we have to ‘agree to disagree’ about which is the best plan. Everyone here has a unique body and life, with different needs. What works for one person may not work for another and no one here knows what is appropriate for another member.

‘Agreeing To Disagree’ means that we acknowledge that other 3FC members have differing views and opinions on weight loss that are equally valid as our own.

The following are not permissible under our Agree To Disagree policy:

- Debating weight loss methods and plans.

- Telling another member that his/her diet plan, exercise plan, and/or food choices are unhealthy, wrong, bad or won’t work unless your opinion is specifically requested.


If you wish to support another member, please answer questions in a factual, friendly manner to the best of your ability, but do not argue or critique other’s choices or plans unless specifically requested to do so. Please do not undermine or debate what other members have chosen to do. This is a support forum, not a forum for debate. If you have a concern that a member is following a plan that may be harmful to his or her health, the correct thing to do is to PM the member privately. If you not wish to PM the member, please PM a moderator or administrator for assistance. Do not challenge the member publicly.

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Old 02-25-2011, 12:49 AM   #23
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You said it yourself (highlighted). However, IP doesn't deal with or talk about "massive over-feeding" but rather eating any carbs at all. See John, IP is a diet.
I realize I often come off as a know it all jerk and I apologize if I have insulted you it is not my intention.

The point I thought we were discussing was the faulty science from their 2008 sales page where they suggest carbs are turned into fat. "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

The links I have posted show that even when you massively overfeed carbs to humans only an insignifigant amount of fat is generated. I really don't understand how this is difficult to understand that the information from the 2008 IP diet page is false.

We agree IP is a diet. We also agree that it is a diet that gets results, fast. The IP diet can be a good and effective diet even while simultaneously not fully educating dieters so they will continue to purchase overpriced supplements. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. This also does not make people who are following the IP diet stupid it just means they are willing to pay the price for convienience.

In a way it is like Jenny Craig. Now I admit I don't know exactly how Jenny works I just know that everyone I know (quite a few people) who have done Jenny have all lost weight while on Jenny and put it all back on once they left Jenny so I'm guessing they aren't into educating people too much just enough so they will buy their pre-packaged food.

Again, I apologize if I have insulted you. It was not my intent.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:28 PM   #24
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Just to point out, people who have a higher weight, and body fat percentage who make drastic changes in their eating habits as in cold turkeying unhealthy habits can lose a lot of weight, very, very quickly without the loss of muscle mass, simply put the body was ready for it.

For me for example on my nutrition ideas, I lost 10, then 8, then 6 in the first 3 weeks of my attempt to begin eating entirely healthy and giving up soda and energy drinks. That's 24 pounds in 3 weeks. I was eating roughly 1600 calories a day at the time with minimal to no exercise.

My guess is that the reason such unnaturally high numbers can show up on the scale and not be having a loss of muscle mass is that there might be more to our bodies then we quite yet understand.

Because quite frankly, it is impossible to lose that much weight in a unhealthy manner when you at the same time feel great while doing it, especially six weeks in. If there were muscle mass being lost, for that long, a person wouldn't feel all that great.

I believe that in some cases, with some metabolisms and body sizes, massive numbers can in fact be possible while not losing muscle mass.

That also said, I believe that science or no, as your body shrinks, we are physically incapable of retaining as much water as we were able to before. Thus as we shrink down, the amount of stored water our bodies can keep within it also decreases. There probably isn't an exact science to it, but I'd be willing to bet if you took 30 pounds away from someone, they would be less capable of storing a number of pounds of water in their bodies anymore.

I just felt like contributing is all
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:58 PM   #25
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I realize I often come off as a know it all jerk and I apologize if I have insulted you it is not my intention.

The point I thought we were discussing was the faulty science from their 2008 sales page where they suggest carbs are turned into fat. "It is important to understand that the minute carbohydrates are consumed, they are broken down into glucose in the bloodstream, and then whatever is not needed immediately for energy is swooped up by insulin, converted into fat and stored."

The links I have posted show that even when you massively overfeed carbs to humans only an insignifigant amount of fat is generated. I really don't understand how this is difficult to understand that the information from the 2008 IP diet page is false.

We agree IP is a diet. We also agree that it is a diet that gets results, fast. The IP diet can be a good and effective diet even while simultaneously not fully educating dieters so they will continue to purchase overpriced supplements. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. This also does not make people who are following the IP diet stupid it just means they are willing to pay the price for convienience.

In a way it is like Jenny Craig. Now I admit I don't know exactly how Jenny works I just know that everyone I know (quite a few people) who have done Jenny have all lost weight while on Jenny and put it all back on once they left Jenny so I'm guessing they aren't into educating people too much just enough so they will buy their pre-packaged food.

Again, I apologize if I have insulted you. It was not my intent.
It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness.
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Old 02-25-2011, 09:58 PM   #26
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It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness.
Just what is an excess unused carb ?

If i burned through 4000 calories of energy in a day and consumed 3000 calories in carbs do you think i would gain weight ?

I personally haven't worried about anything other than numbers of calories injested vs burned and have probably averaged around 4 or 5 pounds a week since i hit my stride, not trying to be argumentative but if a 400 pound guy can lose weight by eating carbs probably anyone can.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:24 PM   #27
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It seems we're not allowed to disagree so I'll say it like this:

The study's stated results are based on "over-feeding". My point is it doesn't discuss NOT "over-feeding" or, if you like, "reasonable-feeding". I just don't like to assume anything however picky it may sound. As an aside, I'd appreciate anything you can dredge up that says:

1) excess, unused carbs don't turn to fat
2) what happens to them if #1 is true

I've just always heard/read the opposite but have no problem being re-educated.

Peace, my brother in non-fatness.
Under normal circumstances about 50% of carbs are used for fuel and 50% are stored as glycogen in muscles. So "excess carbs" are stored as energy to fuel muscles. It is possible to max out glycogen and when you do this over several days then and only then small amounts of carbs are converted to fat for storage in fat cells. It takes a lot of overfeeding of carbs to start up the process of de novo lipogenesis. The reason you've always heard about excess carbs turning to fat is because in rats excess carbs are rapidly turned to fat. That was big news and has been repeated over and over much like the myth that to keep the metabolism stoked you should eat every 2-3 hours. When I first started dieting I read all that crap too. It's amazing how many myths still exist.

I don't know if you looked at the link I posted it is much easier to read. Here it is again.

Here is another easy (for the most part) to read article that discusses nutrients from one of the best in the business.
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Old 02-25-2011, 10:31 PM   #28
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Because quite frankly, it is impossible to lose that much weight in a unhealthy manner when you at the same time feel great while doing it, especially six weeks in. If there were muscle mass being lost, for that long, a person wouldn't feel all that great.
It depends on a lot of different factors. However one thing is certain - you don't feel it when you lose muscle. My legs were much stronger and larger a year ago before my injury which led to a lot of time off from any activity other than walking. Never felt a thing.
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Old 02-26-2011, 12:15 AM   #29
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Sandman79,

Just to stay on topic, I'm on IP. I started Jan 3 2011 and have lost about 31 lbs. The science appears sound to me, and so far, it has worked for me. Yes, it can be expensive, but I guess it's kind of a good reminder not to cheat However, I've actually saved money because I don't go out to eat, and I no longer buy sodas. I also reduced my IP packet purchase by replacing it with comparable shakes (AdvantEDGE, Muscle Milk Lite, most Whey Protein shakes that are under 150 cals / 4 carbs but have at least 18g of protein). There is also a comparable protein bar so I don't have to purchase the IP bars. I also bought comparable supplements that are part of the IP program like Calcium Magnesium, Multi-Vitamins, Omega 3s (or 3-6-9). The Potassium Calcium, my doctor said, is not necessary.

Speaking of Doctors, I made it a point to see my doctor about my diet. The diet itself is through health facilities only (i.e., my friend went to a nutritionist, his friend who lost 100lbs and kept it off for over a year now went to a doctor, and I went to my chiropractor). My doctor seemed to agree that the system will definitely cause rapid weight loss.

It sounds to me like you are doing a great job all on your own. It would be interesting to see what kind of weight loss you would experience under IP. I think what I like about it is the visible progress. It is very encouraging to see the scale change every morning.

Like I said, the science appears sound to me. However, it is the regimen and the visible results that seem to keep me on this diet; well, and the fact that I NEVER feel hungry (which I always did on other very low-caloric diets). Do I crave? It is more like I miss the bad foods that my body has gotten used - I think we all have that.

Anyway, I'm glad to have found this forum. I hope my post helped.



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Old 02-26-2011, 12:34 AM   #30
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Is there any men on here on IP or have tried it before? I have looked at the IP thread extensively but I would like to know of anybody's experiences and if it is really possibly to lose 5-7 lbs on this program. Which I know that has to be high but I really want something to jumpstart my weightloss again. So any of your advice I'd appreciate it.
Looks like I missed some of your questions, sorry.

My first week, I lost 12 lbs the morning of my first weigh-in (WI). Although, when I arrived at my chiro's office to WI, I only showed 9 lbs. Well, we are heavier in the pm than in the am, plus food and water consumption throughout the day, plus I was clothes (let's just say that I am in my bday suit when I weigh myself in the am, haha!). Following week was 7 lbs. Next was 5 lbs. Then it kind of moved slowly, but still losing weight. So, YES, you will definitely lose weight fast - a great way to "jumpstart" as you put it. Just a warning though, many folks (including myself) feel really lethargic + headaches the first and maybe even the second week. After that, your body gets used to the minimal carb intake.

If you want to try it, go for it. This seems to definitely be the place to find support and examples. Listen to those who have successfully done it.

Good luck.



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