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Old 04-02-2002, 11:28 AM   #1
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Default I think I may be fat

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I hope nobody minds that I split this off from the Daily. It is such an important discussion and I don't want it to get lost.
Yell at me if I've goofed! Ruthxxx
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Morning all.. been awhile since I posted on the daily! But as usual, I am still here reading away!
A friend of mine sent me to a web site yesterday that she really likes. It is the NAAFP or something like that. Its for the acceptance of fat people. I skimmed some of the message boards, and I was just heart broken. The boards are all about how ok it is to be large, not just large, but huge. Some of the people were over 700 lbs. None of them want to diet, just to be accepted as they are. I just got the feeling that they had all given up and it was easier just to say they wanted to be big then it is to fight it daily. I felt so awful that I am often one of those people. I often just want to say "forget it, 215 isn't that bad" It really would be easier just to accept it wouldn't it?? So what is it that keeps all of us chicks fighting the battle everyday?? I know its not just that I'm vain, I also want to live to see my grand babies some day...and to be able to play with them with out needing a break every five minutes...
What about you ladies?? What are your main reasons for doing this, the hard part I mean, the looking at yourself and knowing there is something you want to change, need to change.
While I was on the page it showed a picture of a women that weighed about 340, although I am only (only????) 215, my 4 year old DS said, "Oh, look Mommy, she looks just like you!" I wanted to cry! But he's right, I am fat, and I must deal with it, daily!!
I walked 7 miles after that comment!!!
Thanks again for listening ladies!!
Have a great Tuesday all!
MamaJ, your still in my prayers~ Hope your doing ok!!

Stacey

Last edited by McMom; 04-02-2002 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 04-02-2002, 01:45 PM   #2
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STacy what a terrible thing. I have too been avoiding the daily as i have been too busy to keep up with everybody but today it drew me. I feel so sad for those people that give up. it is soo hard to fight but you are right it is their health hthat is at steak here. how can they not fight for some sembelance of health. I understand the need ofr being respected nobody no matter how big or small or cute or ugly shoudl be treated any different but reality is they are, and we are. I saw a picture of me from 2 years ago and i was very big knowing that then i could not go up my stiars withou huffing and i was only 40 at the time i feel so much better now that i have in my life, i am angry at myself for all the time i have missed, but to hear that just breaks my heart.

Well Hi all.! I am here I have missed tons not cheking the daily and janice i wish you the best I am there for you.
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Old 04-02-2002, 06:01 PM   #3
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naafa national association for the advancement of fat acceptance [or something like that].

a tough issue. but their main priority is to gain respect for heavy people. yes, many may seem to have given up, but more than likely, they are defiant[as in, 'i dare you to love or respect me the way i am']. heavy people are viewed as sub-human, and are discriminated against in every aspect of life.

the hard nut to crack is that it's hard to accept and love ourselves the way we are [and we've all discussed this and will continue to discuss this], and losing weight out of self-love rather than self-hate under these circumstances is nearly impossible. yet, the only way to lose weight and keep it off requires a fair amount of self love and self support.

so, the first step is to accept ourselves no matter what our sizes. does this sound like giving up? to some people, it may work out to that. but it also has elements of starting the long road to self-respect and self love.

if we don't think that we are worth respect from others, we have little hope of respecting ourselves, since we use the opinions of others to check our own sense of self.

naafa supports increased research into curing obesity, and campaigns against the poor medical care many of us endure.

i hope this opens up more of a discussion, and many thanks to McMom for bringing it up...

dottiej... have i gone off the deep end here??? into a viper pit????
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Old 04-02-2002, 10:14 PM   #4
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NO jiff you did not. I agree that you do need to have some self love to start the selfpreservation going. I started out of what seemed to be self hate but it turned into self preservation. not of accepting my weight but of accepting of me and that i as a human are worthy of the attention i needed to put into me to start and continue my journey.

I agree with you Jiff that people judge their self worth on how others react to them, and that is just plain wrong, but you are right. There has to be acceptance of the person so they can value who they are before they can make the changes in their life.

I jumped before i thought but the reasons I did are because i care too much and wish I can help them all.


I know that it is a whole vicious cycle and I will say that i once took care of a very obese person in the hospital and everybody was so demeaning to her behind her back. She was so big even the biggest bed we could order for her broke. I will not even say the things they said. but it was not nice. I was in the room with her once and she said to me what do you see when you look at me. probably expecting me to say a very heavy person. my responce suprised her i was less than 180 at the time I tiold her i saw me! I saw that I can very easlily be big like she was if I did not watch out (this woman was well over 600 lbs) She yelled at me ant told me to promise her that i would never get to be as big as she was. then we had a good cry she told me how she can eat next to nothing and gain weight (starvation mode) And how many peole thing that all she had to do was just cut down on all the food she ate? what food? and how she can not do anything with her weight. She was a total invalid due to her weight. I had another friend who ended up dying because of her weight of 350, she ended up with heart problems and they could not fit her on the table to do any cardiac procedures or tests, she died. I reme ber my friends and remember the anguish that they went through, and the life that they are missing out of (or missed) that i get upset when i hear that people do not want to make changes in their life.

When i first came to this board there was a 16 year old from the ucraine area that was so big she had not gone outside in 2 years. her brother could not find clothes in her size. and she could not do more than wakk from her bed to the bathroom. and she was only 16! I cry when i think of her. I want to so bad go to her and find her and help her, taker her in my arms and tell her she is loved and a worthyperson and helpher everystep of the way to be a slimmer person, so she can go outside again.

Thanks for bringing up that point of view Jiff. ......... Yes obese persons do need to be respected and given help in what ever way they need it, but It hurts to think that there are those that just want to be accepted as obese and do nothing more I had not thought of the fact that they need to be accepted by others to accept them selves..

I will jump down and stop now If you think you opened a can of worms I think i just ate them! (I had a dark roast coffee a few hours ago and am still going from that)

I am very glad to hear that the site is dedicated to people that are heavy and do research to help them. I am also glad th hear that it is more than just a sight to say I am heavy and you had better like it. and it is there to provide support for people that are heavy like that and able to talk to others.

I am too tired i tend to ramble and dig my self deeper and say things i do not totally mean.
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Old 04-03-2002, 08:17 AM   #5
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Some people are just stupid. Some people are just mean. It's when people are stupid *and* mean that I get infuriated.
The comments made behind her back thing... so juvenile. So gutless and so telling about the people who made the comments.

I have no problem with laughing at myself but God help anybody who laughs at me or at my friends because of our size. It makes me crazy.
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Old 04-03-2002, 08:41 AM   #6
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Those who know me, know I am a people watcher. I study people so that I can try to undestand where they are coming from.
When I am out and about , one thing I VERY often notice about overweight people it that they are not well groomed. I suppose it is lack of self esteem. It amazes me that anyone would go out in public looking like they need a bath. Their clothes are messy and they look awful.
I want to go up to these people and tell them to realize that they are worth being clean and neat. That they are putting themselves down by looking sloppy. What are they saying about themselves when they look like that? Remember what my motto is? "You are what you say you are!"
I'm not only overweight, I'm also handicapped, so therefore I attract attention (Fat lady waddling!) I make a big effort to be well dressed and nicely put together when I go anywhere. Why...because I have pride in myself and also because I want DH to be proud of me.
I'm not the sum total of my weight! I am a friendly, intelligent, silly woman who should lose 60 pounds.
I hope that I have given everyone something to think about and hopefully I haven't offended anyone. Although it wouldn't be the first time...
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Old 04-03-2002, 09:54 AM   #7
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nasus... you're terrific!!!! and i know first hand what you saw in the hospital.

during my unfortunate incarceration last summer, i also couldn't have certain tests because i exceeded the load limit on the equipment, and other tests were inconclusive because of my size. fortunately, there are now bariatric beds, which are actually pretty cool [other patients were jealous], but they also have limits, generally around 800 pounds.

i was lucky to be in a hospital where i got excellent care. to be sure, there must have been a few who made incredibly rude comments, but the majority saw me as a PERSON, and that's all i ask. the aide who bathed me [because i couldn't do it myself] always gave me a backrub and came back to just check on me several times a day. and sometimes he just came in to hide. the physical therapists were wonderful [they emphasized the need for one step at a time]. the respiratory therapists came whenever i needed [except for one, and the supervisor got an earful about him]. and one told me that my main 'exercise' was to take at least 6 deep breaths about 10 times an hour. she said that th

at was the only exercise i could handle at the time.

but where would i have been if i hadn't been able to accept that i was worth caring for? that i was entitled to decent, appropriate, medical care? and where would i be now without that decent care??? that's a big part of the fat acceptance movement. to get us decent care and respect, and appropriate medical facilities.

it's disgraceful, in my book, that testing equipment is not available to those at highest risk of disease and death. that medicine focuses on those who are socially acceptable.

i too was one of those who ate next to nothing and gained weight. and all the docs said that 'it must be your diet.' but i was lucky enough to run into some smart people who said that it wasn't.

naafa maintains that diets don't work, and we all know that first hand.

we can say certainly say that i'm one of the lucky ones. i was a tad over 500 pounds in the hospital. and gaining daily, despite an 800 calorie diet. the dietician had a temper tantrum with my doctor, trying to get doc to prescribe a diuretic. the doc thought i was cheating, and my family was sneaking food to me!!!! [AND DON'T GET PEACHIE STARTED ON THAT TOPIC!!!!!!]


wait!!! this got posted and i wasn't finished yet!!!

once the sleep apnea machine was set right, and the diuretic kicked in, i lost 75 pounds in 10 weeks. and a total of 97 pounds in 5 months. it's a medical problem, not a will power issue!!!

and now, after the surgery, i've lost a total of 180 pounds, and more than halfway done. and still getting stared at for my size. but i know what the truth is.

i'm glad this topic is open for discussion. it all relates to how we view ourselves, and why we have chosen our individual paths.
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start: 506 [Sept 2001]
weight at gastric bypass [Jan 29, 2002]: 409
current weight: 225
weight for plastic surgery: 200
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Old 04-03-2002, 10:46 AM   #8
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Innerestin' discussion, ladies...

Did anyone beside me see the program on obesity on Monday night (I think it was the Discovery channel)? Very interesting stuff.

In that program there was a story that was particularly compelling. It was about a man who had weighed somewhere between 1,200 and 1,400 pounds (his weight had to be estimated because there wasn't a scale large enough) and had gone to a clinic for the morbidly obese (the only one of its kind in the country) to try to save his life.

After the obligatory pictures of the naked fat guy on the specially built bed, they began talking a little about the clinic and its work. What made me sit up and take notice was that part of the clinic's therapy was to extend love and acceptance for these people. Why is this so amazing? Because I've watched for years the discrepacies (discrimination!) in how eating disorders for fat people differ from those who are thin. I had seen this type of "love therapy" (for lack of a better term) used in successful treatments for anorexics and bulemics -- some woman in Canada, I think -- in a small clinic where the treatment is based on treating the patients (usually young, very thin women) with affirmations and loving tenderness. I recall that the success rate was unusually good considering that the most profoundly ill were brought to her clinic. But NEVER, until this program Monday night, had I heard of such a program for people who are fat. Even in the bulk of the eating disorder literature -- if you're bulemic or anorexic, you're a victim. But if you're fat you're... self indulgent... lazy... undisciplined... at least many of the supposed "cures" reflect that thinking. Rarely have I seen anyone (unless they themselves had been fat) develop a program of recovery which included sincere compassion for (or even addressed the problems of) the emotional distress and self hatred of overweight people.

This is a huge piece of the puzzle, I think. Because part of what starts the self destructive (as in slow suicide) cycle (different, I think, than the I'd-rather-have-an-extra-cookie-or-two type) of overeating is guilt and shame. In today's society, we feel guilty if we're even 20 pounds overweight. And there's no appetite enhancer like guilt and shame! Common sense says that if we're feeling guilty, we would do something to change ourselves so we wouldn't have to feel those feelings. Unfortunately, guilt and shame don't necessarily go away when we eat healthy for one day. In fact, if we're looking for external approval, it can be years of strenuous diet and exercise before we get it. And for most of us, the delayed gratification of "society's" approval, as much as we'd like to have it, just doesn't give us the motivation -- or strength or whatever you want to call it -- to stay on a diet and exercise program.

So, denied approval, left in our shame, food becomes the comforter. That's how it happened for me, anyway. Food became the soother, the always available and uncritical friend. If I didn't have a date? There was always a large pizza and chocolate chip cookes to ease me through Friday night. And the more I did that, the more the shame, the more I did it to get away from the shame. I can totally understand how people can get so large -- we get bigger while our world gets smaller...until it finally is no larger than what we want to eat next and how we're going to get it -- because any other thought (about what is really going on with us) is too excrutiating to think.

So, I can understand why there is naafa...somehow we have to lose the shame associated with being fat (since it only makes the problem worse) so that we can get into a real solution. It's true that somehow this self regard has to be found within us -- but for me? I need support from others like me and a relationship w/an unconditionally loving and accepting God. There's only a slim chance that society will embrace or even feel compassion for those of us who are struggling to recover from compulsive overeating. And maybe it doesn't have to. But for those of us who have this problem, somehow we have to find a way to remember that we're all created in God's image and we have the right to help. And then we have to take responsibility for ourselves and our health...and never, never give up until we find the help we need.

JMO!

Hey Jiff! I was posting while you were. Great minds...
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Old 04-03-2002, 01:36 PM   #9
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Hi all..
Let me start by saying...I hope you are all aware that I in no way meant to offend anyone! I was not being judgemental, just making an observation. So please, no one think I was being cruel!
It makes me very sad to know that people are basically forced into positions of self-loathing. It makes so little sense to me that people feel the need to hurt others, soley based on misunderstanding.
I believe that obesity is a disease. Sadly it is a disease that few people aknowledge, except to poke fun at. It is something that those of us that are fighting can never keep secret or hidden, its there for the whole world to see and comment on.
I know first hand how hard it is to look at myself in the mirror and tell myself that I like what I see. I know how hard it is to walk in to a work party with my husband, a school function for school, or just the grocery store, without looking around the room to see if I'm the biggest one there. Why do I care? Because I am convinced that it makes a difference to other people. I constantly tell my 11 year old (who happens to be extremely thin) that if people don't like her exactly as she is, they are not worth her time and energy. Why I can't make myself believe that, I don't know.
The cycle is so hard to break once it starts, and I think for some it is an impossible task in their eyes. I don't believe the board I mentioned is actually full of people that have truly given up, just that its easier to stop talking about the fight all the time.
For me, if I stop talking about it, stop reminding myself constantly, I'm afriad I'll stop trying. And then where am I?
As most of you know I am doing a 60 mile walk for breast cancer. My fundraising and training has put me in many, many situations that have been hurtful. Many people assume because I am large there is no way I can do this walk. There are so many days that I want to agree, to just say, Yeah, I'm fat, guess I might as well stop trying. But I can't! I just can't!
The walk has also shown me a side of human strength I never knew existed. The battle the women that have breast cancer have to fight is so much more difficult then I can fathom. Perhaps their struggle is what made me look so differently at myself this week. There are women fighting for their lives, giving every ounce of strength they can to surviving. And there are women losing that fight every minute. Then there is me. A perfectly healthy woman, eating my way toward being horribly unhealthy. I have the power to change my life, on my own. Just me. They are counting on every miracle around them to change theirs. Makes me feel small and stupid.
Please try to read between the lines and see what I'm trying to say. Under no circumstances am I trying to hurt anyone! I just don't always write very well...
Thanks for being there as always ladies!!!
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Old 04-03-2002, 02:15 PM   #10
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I can't see how what you've said could be hurtful. You're just saying what is in your heart.

Sometimes I think that the reason that I don't lose weight is that I really don't care what other people think of me! I like me and my DH loves me! As for the rest of the world...oh well!

We should look for our strength and approval in ourselves, not anyone else. If a medical professional or anyone else would ever put me down for my weight, that person would get a verbal rant like they have never heard before. I don't need their approval...I just need their professional opinions.
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Old 04-03-2002, 03:59 PM   #11
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you ladies are terrific and i'm honored to know you
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start: 506 [Sept 2001]
weight at gastric bypass [Jan 29, 2002]: 409
current weight: 225
weight for plastic surgery: 200
final goal: 180

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Old 04-03-2002, 04:22 PM   #12
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Hi everyone,

I lurk here almost weekly because your chicken-purse moderator is a great friend of mine. Hope no one minds me posting.

I think this is such an interesting topic. And just recently I read an article that was linked by Robyn Anderson's Journal (http://robynanderson.com/ofb) on a very simliar topic. It's about how society can deal with obesity, and the suggestions the article's author has. There really isn't any way I can describe it, so I think it's best you read it yourself if your interested.

http://www.freep.com/news/metro/ager28_20020328.htm


Two people have responded to this woman, and you can read their responses here.

http://caerula.diaryland.com/fat.html

http://www.eilatan.net/adventures/ar...401.php#000401


Just food for thought.

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Old 04-03-2002, 06:01 PM   #13
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Wow, what a kettle of fish we've opened, eh? Actually, I'm glad it is open because I think it is something that I am struggling with right now. I know that I haven't been OP and I know that I want to lose weight. The question is--for who? It makes me think of other times in my life that I had to do something becasue it pleased other people and I have been feeling much the same way about my weight loss. I don't deny that I need to lose the weight, but, I also acknowledge two very facts about how I got to be this way--I have always had PCOS but undiagnosed till recently and I have a daughter and the pregnancy weight just never came off. I am alos at a different space in my life than I was just 5 short years ago. Then I was a single woman with no obligations to anyone but herself, free to do as I pleased and when Iwas pleased to do it. Although it was a carefree lifestyle, I felt it had very little substance and my weight reflected that becasue I was of no (bodily) substance. Now, I have a full lie, a husband, daughter, new challenges and goals and responisibilities. My metabolism has changed and stress is greater. I have found that to get to the pre-pregnancy weight that I had placed as a goal for myself is unrealistic. I will NEVER be the person I was, no matter how hard I try since my life has changed so such since then. I beieve that the best aim I can have for myself now is live healthier--be active and to TRY to eat well. I am finiding that the happier I feel with the changes I have made in my life, the easier it is to let go of the weight that I carry. I can completely understand how the people on the website can feel like they just want to be accepted regardless of how big they are and I think that they are making a statement to themselves--I will accept myself for who and what I am and any other changes that occur are happy consequences. I am starting to see that for me (and I am only speaking for myself here) letting go of my obsession with the numbers, the highs and lows, the piece of cheesecake I willingly gave up can only lead to a happier life and to me that's all we have left to live for.

So I'm coming down from my soapbox now Great discusssion!
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Old 04-03-2002, 07:30 PM   #14
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OH MY!!! You guys have me in tears!!!

I understand totally! When i starte my journey it was out of total self disgust, self hate, and fear of losing me. I have learned many things in the last 2 years, and knowing how to respect myself was the most importnat thing. I know that i would not be still here or even gotten here if i did not have some sembelance of self respect, that draged me here.

I still strugle with the give up and stay fat or do i fight the hardest fight in my life. I am finding it mre and more i will stay and fight. and that is new to me. I have always been the passive one and the one who did not fight. Even the kids and husband did not make much difference in my decisions.

Stacy You were just repeating what you had read not your opinion. I respect your ability to do the walk nomatter what the attitudes you are recieving. I know the fight that the women with breast cancer has fought (I too have lost friends to it) and the fight that you finding is the same fight that we all have had even those people that are on the board that you have read. Unfortunatly what they wrote sounded like they have given up (maybe they have or maybe as jiff stated they are saying that as a way of boosting themselves to get the respect thay need to fight the fight)

Pooky it has taken me a long time to get rid of the numbers obsession (still here) my focus is now more on how i feel and where i know i will look good not the scale that the doc goes by! but society will always go by the numbers.

Sooner I wish i had seen that. it sounds like a wonderful program. I have always lookt to food for comfort and find that i still do! I also am so afriad that i will go back to my old habits I am becomming almost obsesive regarding my exercise I hate to miss even a day, it is for fear that i will stop exercising, then the diet will stop and then i will get back to being fat.

Jiff I sure wish I could have gotten down to see you in the hospital. I would have told them a thing or 2!

Well I can honestly say that this discussion had not only opened my eyes and makes me remember that self acceptance is needed to make changes in your life. but brings back to my mind how terrible people are treated just because they are different. (in looks only) and it remended me of how far i have come and the obsticles ihave overcome. (and still battle) and the obsticles that we all have to overcome. I have to admit I see heavy people walking down the street and wish that i could help them, to lose that extra weight, now i can look at them and think of loving them and helping them too! LOL

to love and repect ourselves is imperritive, to gain others love and respect will go a long way to having self respect.
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Old 04-03-2002, 07:46 PM   #15
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Once again I am amazed by each and every one of you!

I feel honored to be a part of this group. I find it very sad that there are many people out there who have truly given up..and why, do they not have anyone who loves them, do they not love themselves enough? who knows and who cares, the fact is they are out there and we are all responsible for we are human beings.....

I will confess until I had my children I did not have a weight problem, I was "skinny". I now struggle with 40-50 lbs of excess weight. Would I give up my children to not have those lbs ..no way, I look at these lonely people and I am happy to have a wonderful husband and family. I only wish that eveyone could feel secure and be happy.

I also feel that we are all socially responsible for the less fortunate. No one should ever be alone and give up.

God Bless you all!
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