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Old 08-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #46
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but any steps toward being more relaxed or casual is countered by an awful fear that it will result in a regain.
Relaxation and being casual in my everyday life DID cause my weight gain. I called in mindlessness.

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And here's the thing, which is probably the wrong way to think, but I have to say it: I always wonder whether those of us who were morbidly obese and got to normal weight ought to have some slack here compared to those who were at a normal weight (however that's defined) but began to aspire to be at a fashion model weight.
Yes, you should get some slack, but also remember that there are a few of us who were not obese and do not aspire to fashion model weight. I was never obese--just overweight. I do not aspire to fashion model weight--I want to be on the lower end of the BMI scale because there I don't have a muffin top to deal with (or as much bra fat). I'd like to be able to put on a dress sans Spanx.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:06 PM   #47
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Yes, you should get some slack, but also remember that there are a few of us who were not obese and do not aspire to fashion model weight. I was never obese--just overweight. I do not aspire to fashion model weight--I want to be on the lower end of the BMI scale because there I don't have a muffin top to deal with (or as much bra fat). I'd like to be able to put on a dress sans Spanx.
Allison, I think that I wasn't clear. What I meant is, those who were morbidly obese and then reached normal weight ought to be cut some slack in being judged "compulsive" in their fears & vigilance, or diagnosed with an eating disorder. I do not mean that those who were "merely" overweight are wrong or lesser beings for wanting to reach a lower weight. I was only speaking of whether the current preventive measures taken by the formerly morbidly obese fit in the spectrum of eating disorders. In some instances, maybe they do, but isn't some of their fears & behavior more understandable? I'm asking that they maybe have their past history & circumstances taken into account when they are being diagnosed or self-diagnosing. Sorry if I was not clear.

As for me, I do not cut myself a lot of slack. It's long been clear to me that I have had eating disorders or exercise compulsions for years, but that they shape-shift, which is why in my one lifetime I've been obese, morbidly obese, anorexic, an exercise bulimic, then obese and morbidly obese again, then an orothorexic and a compulsive exerciser. The thing is not the diagnosis, it's the thinking & behaviors.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:43 PM   #48
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Allison, I think that I wasn't clear. What I meant is, those who were morbidly obese and then reached normal weight ought to be cut some slack in being judged "compulsive" in their fears & vigilance, or diagnosed with an eating disorder. I do not mean that those who were "merely" overweight are wrong or lesser beings for wanting to reach a lower weight. I was only speaking of whether the current preventive measures taken by the formerly morbidly obese fit in the spectrum of eating disorders. In some instances, maybe they do, but isn't some of their fears & behavior more understandable? I'm asking that they maybe have their past history & circumstances taken into account when they are being diagnosed or self-diagnosing. Sorry if I was not clear.

As for me, I do not cut myself a lot of slack. It's long been clear to me that I have had eating disorders or exercise compulsions for years, but that they shape-shift, which is why in my one lifetime I've been obese, morbidly obese, anorexic, an exercise bulimic, then obese and morbidly obese again, then an orothorexic and a compulsive exerciser. The thing is not the diagnosis, it's the thinking & behaviors.
You're quite right. I wasn't understanding clearly. I do remember seeing some posts from some formerly obese people who had lost weight and kept it off for years and looking at what they eat and what they do to keep the weight off and thinking that I'd be perfectly miserable doing just that. But it is their diligence (as yours) that keeps the weight off. Perhaps if I were more diligent I wouldn't have gained back the weight.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:03 AM   #49
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Cherrypie - thank you! I have long wanted to know how others managed to re-size their uploads without having a copy of a photo editing program. Tinypic is great. I will use it often I think.

Vigilance vs obsession. This really is a fine line, and i'm pretty sure that "my vigilance is your obsession" if you know what I mean. I'm certain that I'm not vigilant enough about calories; if I were, I would't constantly be struggling with regain. My siggy is 'every bite counts" as a nod (and personal reminder) to hold myself accountable for every intake, because I can blow a careful day's eating if I drop my guard for just 5 minutes. I'm pretty sure that to others, including DH and DSs, I am way over the line of vigilant into obsessive when I read nutrition guides at restaurants before ordering ("hold on, I can't pull up the .pdf on my phone so I can't order yet"), forego party food in favor of eating handfuls of veggies before we leave our house, or insist that I have to get to the gym for a workout despite having a low-grade fever and chills. I don't personally feel controlled by my behavior on these occasions (as opposed to the feelings of loss of control when I binge), but I DO feel pretty bad if I allow my vigilance to lapse and get "punished" by the scale the next morning. So, which is it? I dunno, but as you said Saef, those of us who are not "reduced obese" (and I too was never quite obese; max BMI was 29.5, but I include myself and other overweight folks in this grouping) really don't understand how much of an effort it is to continuously fight our own physiology.

On a happier note, I went to see "The Way Way Back" yesterday. Really good film. Not completely cheerful but interesting, especially perhaps to those of us who have teen-agers.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:41 AM   #50
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I agree, Andrea. There is a very fine line between vigilance and obsession. It may all be in the eye of the beholder.

And I loved "The Way Way Back." Probably one of the best movies I've seen this year (and we see A LOT of movies). The very best so far was "Mud."

Up early this morning with three of four animals jumping on various body parts. Often on the weekends I'll get up and feed them and go back to bed for another hour or so, but not today. Hopefully I can get a nap in sometime so I can stay up late enough to watch the first of the last eight episodes of Breaking Bad. I'm only slightly obsessed with this show.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #51
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In re-reading my list of eating disorders, to see if what I'd written was really true to my experience (as I try to be straightforward as possible here and honest with myself also), I believe I left one out.

In the progression between exercise bulimia and compulsive exercising, I left out binge disorder. Of course, I also cycled through that, but I consider it part of my recovery. When I stopped exercising really hard as a reaction to my binges, and simply restricted more or less severely afterward, that's what I was going through. I was working with my therapist on not punishing myself afterward. "Just go for a walk," she urged me, and then, knowing me: "And I don't mean power-walk." So there would be these Walks of Shame, through the neighborhood, sometimes at a nearby nature center -- but they helped me because the change of scenery eventually would put my mind on a different track. The things I learned about my bingeing include:

- It is an expression of emotion.
- It is a reaction to restriction and other overcontrolling behavior -- and not always of food!!! Sometimes overcontrolling my time & schedule brings this on.
- It is not a loss of control; on some level, it is a conscious choice to give up control.
- It is a kind of break I give myself, an attempted kindness that goes horribly awry.
- It happens when I feel trapped, backed in a corner, and inadequate, when I fear exposure, when I have overregulated myself and have been too hard on myself, asked too much and given too little.
- It is not simply triggered by particular foods. The other conditions I've described have to be in place. But the foods that I choose are going to be whatever I've been restricting or denying.
- I can watch myself do it, slow it down or stop it now, when once I couldn't. I can break it off.
- I feel regretful afterward, but not self-lacerating, not spiraling down into the blackest of moods, not full of self-recrimination, and I am not punitive. I know why it happened -- and why I chose to halt the particular episode.
- Within 24 hours, I will have forgotten it.
- I wonder sometimes if I'll always be recovering from it. I still do it now, despite years of working on it now, but irregularly, and about 97% of the time now, it's with sugarfree chewing gum -- and with unpleasant results due to the sorbitol. I suspect I would recover if I ate less restrictively, but my reduced obese fears will not allow complete freedom. Maybe if I make it to my 70s or 80s ...

Okay, I think I've given you the whole sequence, and I hope my sharing my experience of what these mental states & behaviors were for me, personally, helps someone in some way. With the usual disclaimer: I am not the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or a mental health professional. I am just someone who's dealt with some ... stuff ... over the course of her lifetime, and I feel the pain of anyone who's had similar issues or feels he or she is edging toward them.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:40 PM   #52
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Allison... Are you obsessed or vigilant about the show?!?!

Andrea.... Oh yes. Everything you said rings so true to me. I almost had a panic attack yesterday at lunch. Dd leaves for college Tuesday so we are making some of her fave foods and going to fave restaurants. We left the house at lunch with no plan (already sets off panic in me) and dh and dd started talking about ideas. I kept my mouth shut assuming I would make a good choice wherever we went. They were debating a sandwich place that we've never been to but is known for their unique gargantuan sandwich creations. I had perused their menu before and knew there would be no even somewhat healthy options. I truly felt panicky and luckily they decided on a different spot that we all like. I made a very healthy choice and enjoyed my lunch.

We leave for Tucson Tuesday and again I'm going to be nervous about my meals. I know we are going for Mexican one night but I can order okay there. They are also planning on a hamburger spot that looks deadly. I looked at their menu and think I will just splurge for that meal as there are no good options and I don't want to be a killjoy. I also don't know if I will get to exercise while I'm there. Sigh....
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:48 PM   #53
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Michele~not really obsessed, but when I got home from work Friday, DS had accidentally left the tv on tuned to AMC's Breaking Bad Marathon of season 4. Normally I don't turn on the TV until the news begins, but I thought of no good reason to turn it off as I unpacked my groceries and started dinner! We watched Season 1 last summer or fall and decided to buy seasons 2-4 after that We watched those here and there, stepping it all up this spring as our usual shows went on hiatus. Of course, then we had to buy the first half of season 5 which we devoured in less than a week. My only problem is that it comes on late and I've been falling asleep at 8:30 so we may have to record it and watch it tomorrow ((sigh)).

I'm making some breakfast "muffins" to take to work this week. Each muffin has a couple small chunks of bacon, green onions, broccoli, low fat cheese and an egg. Hopefully they'll turn out good.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:20 PM   #54
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saef What you express so clearly pretty well explains why I binge eat and how I've also come to some sort of control. I wish I had your power with words (but not your job ). Your wise words always clearly sum of so many of the issues we all have.

Thank you yet again.

Dagmar
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