blue, well, you've certainly heard Beth and Linda and I complain about that hunger, so you know it's nothing you're doing wrong. Beth has a better grasp on this than I do, but I wonder if the morning carbs are triggering more hunger and cravings later in the day? I seem to do much better with fewer carbs in the morning, and more protein.
Sue, yay for the new chick! I was looking at your 195 goal - is that a short-term goal, or where you hope to be before Hawaii, or your P1 ending point?
Miwi, good to see you! Maybe the slower loss is because you have less fat stores to fuel your metabolism. We're all familiar with slower losses as we get within 20 pounds of our ultimate goal.
Beth - NOOOOOO! Selfishly, I wanted you to run that race so I could know if it's worth the entry fee! But seriously, I feel so disappointed for you. I'm sure you feel the same. I'm sure the race organizers didn't make that decision lightly, and no one wants runners slipping on ice/snow. But please find something fun to do in its place. You've earned a little holiday.
My non-IP daughter wants to take a cruise with me some time this year, and she's on a low budget, so I've been looking at what cruise lines depart out of Houston. Have any of you ever traveled on Royal Caribbean? Opinions? I've only taken two cruises (Alaska & northern Europe), both on Holland America.
I booked a beach condo on the east coast for a week in July; going to spend some time with extended family. So that's motivation to keep my weight in check. I've stayed there before - it's an efficiency apartment just 1/2 block from the beach, and has its own little kitchen, so I can cook healthy meals. I'm really hoping I'm back to running by then, so I can run on the beach.
No headache this morning, and I'm SO grateful for that! I hate waking up with a headache. I just can't wait for this ortho appointment. I realized last night that if it's not a super-serious injury, and I'm allowed to walk/run that 10K in early March, I might need to do a quick phase off starting on Feb. 21. Fingers crossed. I can't wait to be done with this P1 reboot. I really hope it works to burn off some pounds, though.
Last edited by HereIStand; 02-12-2016 at 10:30 AM.
Blue - yes, the hungeries are normal - and I really think it comes down to how carb sensitive you are - and some of my triggers seem to be fruit and oats - especially fresh fruit but I'm ok with them pre-run as I zap my glycogen stores. Honey is a big no-no for me personally that's the great thing about MFP is being able to see patterns emerging
HIS - good luck with the cruise - glad the keto-flu is easing and yah, wish I could report back too - still kind of bummed but...
We're in the truck on our way south. Surprisingly, DH was all for still getting away for a couple days - just us there are a couple cool things to do and I have to admit, just taking 2 days to do nothing sounds wonderful. I haven't done something like this with DH ever - and only a handful of times before DD19 was born
Does stink about the race but I brought a bar of Ghredellis dark to nibble on
I can't break my MFP streak though - I just passed 365 days but I might not be 100% truthful the next 2 days Sunday will be a P1 day for sure
Smda - glad you had a good time on your trip and congrats on the loss!
HIS- I hope you are able to determine what's going on and it's nothing too serious. Running on the beach sound fantastic. I can relate with the keto flu (more on that below).
Beth- enjoy your weekend getaway! I was just thinking the other day DH and I haven't had date night in a while. We are definitely due!
I've been a little MIA this week. It's been a very busy week. I've been able to get on and read a little here and there, but finally have time to post. I allowed myself to cheat on SB Sunday. While I let myself eat the foods I wanted I still controlled the portion of the foods. Overall, I think I did ok. I didn't gain anything for WI and I was honest with putting everything in MFP. Overall it was 1500 calories, which is more than IP recommended (obviously), but less than my BMR of 1550. Getting back into ketosis wasn't fun (it never is), but I'm there. I was hoping to be to goal by the end of March, but I'm not sure I will be. If I'm not, I know it's because of my choices to go off plan. It seems my determination is stronger this round than it was last round. I've surpassed my weight loss from the first time I did IP and find I'm not satisfied and KNOW I want to continue. Last time, I was just ready to be done.
Beth - Have fun!!! You deserve a nice weekend away.
HIS - 195 was my initial goal. I have not seen onderland for such a long time that I thought if I could get there by Hawaii that might be where I would stop. After spending time with this fine group I know I can do better for me. I want to get to my first goal prior to committing to a new goal.
I want to phase off properly before I go to Hawaii and not do a "quick phase off". After working with my coach I think she will recommend a "quick phase off" -- when I went on the cruise she told me that they do not phase off till you are at goal.
Re- Royal Caribbean - I have never been -- my folks went last year and the biggest complaint they had was not having laundromats available on the ship (spoiled by carnival and princess - not sure if HAL has). Depending on the length of the cruise that may or may not be a big deal for you.
I've been a little MIA this week. It's been a very busy week. I've been able to get on and read a little here and there, but finally have time to post. I allowed myself to cheat on SB Sunday. While I let myself eat the foods I wanted I still controlled the portion of the foods. Overall, I think I did ok. I didn't gain anything for WI and I was honest with putting everything in MFP. Overall it was 1500 calories, which is more than IP recommended (obviously), but less than my BMR of 1550. Getting back into ketosis wasn't fun (it never is), but I'm there. I was hoping to be to goal by the end of March, but I'm not sure I will be. If I'm not, I know it's because of my choices to go off plan. It seems my determination is stronger this round than it was last round. I've surpassed my weight loss from the first time I did IP and find I'm not satisfied and KNOW I want to continue. Last time, I was just ready to be done.
Seems as though some people find a 2nd round of P1 easier, while others struggle through it. I wonder if it has anything to do with how close they got to their desired weight the first time? Maybe if you never hit goal weight the first time, you're more motivated to get there the 2nd time.
I'm finding this 2nd (brief) run of P1 to be a challenge. Maybe because I know I could probably have some off-protocol foods and still lose weight, so everything is a temptation. In fact, tonight I had two 4 oz burgers, wrapped in butter lettuce (YUM), with a little cheese and a dab of gaucamole. More fat than protocol allows, but, sheesh, I swam for 45 minutes today!
smda - thanks for the tip about R.C. We're looking at a Caribbean cruise of 7 days, so laundromats probably aren't a deal-breaker. I know I don't want to do a Carnival cruise - they have a party reputation and I'm more of a laid-back vacationer.
Good grief, lots of drama on the IP FB page today! It's gotten to where I don't comment there at all, just keep a low profile and avoid all the trouble makers. I don't know if you all saw the two threads about turkey bacon. Apparently someone posted a photo and said her coach told her it was okay to have. So that created nine kinds of controversy.
I did 10 minutes of freestyle swimming today and then 35 minutes of aqua jogging. You know you're working hard when you're sweating in the pool. Got my HR up to 144 at one point, but it's so weird to feel like you're doing the work of an all-out sprint but you're physically only moving a couple of feet.
Haven't decided if I'll head to the pool tomorrow. I want to watch the Olympic marathon trials on TV at noon, and then am going to friend's to see her new baby, whom they adopted on Monday. Maybe I will just do some easy walking in the morning. No special Valentine's plans for me and hubby - we've never really celebrated the holiday and I'm okay with that.
Ladies, I am loving these breakfasts
Today was strawberry cheesecake. it was so pretty, I just have to share IPcheesecake.jpg
That's a double serving ===> today's breakfast was half of that
Tomorrow, the other half!
Renember a few days ago, I mentioned that I was going to treat myself to a spa day, and it was cancelled because of the storm? I went yesterday, got my legs waxed (first time ever for me) and had a great facial (last one I had was on a vacation to a resort probably 25 years ago). So a definite treat for me. Loved the facial Lasted about an hour and a half, and felt so good, really relaxing, and she did an arm and hand massage as well. And my face does feel really nice and soft and smooth. But seriously, I had to chuckle to myself, everything she put on my face all the lotions and masks and such, every one of them was going to diminish the wrinkles and age spots and whatever other bad things are on my face I almost expected to come out of there looking 20
Nope, got home and still the same "old" me!!
But I did enjoy it, and I'd certainly do it again when I felt like a special treat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hysteria_625
Blue - yes, the hungeries are normal - and I really think it comes down to how carb sensitive you are - and some of my triggers seem to be fruit and oats - especially fresh fruit but I'm ok with them pre-run as I zap my glycogen stores. Honey is a big no-no for me personally that's the great thing about MFP is being able to see patterns emerging
You are probably right about carb sensitivity, I don't know if I was before, but my suspicion is the low carb load during IP probably makes us more carb sensitive, The day I was so hungry, I had a slightly carbier day. It is something I'll have to watch going forward to try to identify triggers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdawheel
195 was my initial goal. I have not seen onderland for such a long time that I thought if I could get there by Hawaii that might be where I would stop. After spending time with this fine group I know I can do better for me. I want to get to my first goal prior to committing to a new goal.
I want to phase off properly before I go to Hawaii and not do a "quick phase off". After working with my coach I think she will recommend a "quick phase off" -- when I went on the cruise she told me that they do not phase off till you are at goal.
I initially had a higher goal, but same as you, once I go close to it, I knew I could do better, and wouldn't be happy to stop there. And glad I made that decision.
I'm doing the full phase off for vacation, but I was only about 5lb from goal. And I don't think I'll go back to P1 when I get back, just try to lose the last few by eating clean. Truthfully, I would probably do a shorter phase off if I had more to lose before goal, so your coach may be right. I know that at this point (another week of P3 to go), I really do not want to go back to P1 anytime soon. I think it was jenny who did a short vacation phase off (she mentioned it recently) and was very successful. But you have to do what feels right to you, and either way will be fine!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereIStand
I'm finding this 2nd (brief) run of P1 to be a challenge. Maybe because I know I could probably have some off-protocol foods and still lose weight, so everything is a temptation. In fact, tonight I had two 4 oz burgers, wrapped in butter lettuce (YUM), with a little cheese and a dab of gaucamole. More fat than protocol allows, but, sheesh, I swam for 45 minutes today!
I did 10 minutes of freestyle swimming today and then 35 minutes of aqua jogging. You know you're working hard when you're sweating in the pool. Got my HR up to 144 at one point, but it's so weird to feel like you're doing the work of an all-out sprint but you're physically only moving a couple of feet.
HIS - I do sympathize! P1 has got to be hard to go back to, but just keep telling yourself it'll just be a few weeks and you can do it
Glad to hear you're getting the swimming in, and hope you're enjoying it more now...you should be in great shape to get back to running once you're healed.
No big Valentine's day plans, but DH is taking me out for lunch. Fact is, it's bitterly cold here today (like almost everywhere except the west) and while I don't mind going out in the daytime, by evening, I just want to hunker down by a cozy fire
Height: 5'-2" - 41 years old - 2015 Reboot: 165.4/136.0/135
Good morning IPer's!
This week was crazy for me and I didn't get a chance to come on the boards and chat with you guys this week.
Believe it or not, I had another good weigh in this morning, another 2#, so now I am only 2.4# from goal. 2 good weeks in a row being this close to goal is just astonishing. I have 2 more weeks and then I am beginning my phase off. I should be able to hit 135, but I will take "close enough" if I have to.
Beth- sorry your race got cancelled! I am selfishly disappointed because I really wanted to hear what the after party was like
I can't remember if I noticed being more hungry on maintenance, but even being on P1 these past 2 weeks I feel a lot hungrier than normal. Usually with ketosis, I am never hungry and I have to remind myself to eat. But these past couple of weeks, I have been ready to chew my arm off. Very strange.
MFP is a life saver for tracking trends and finding triggers. Grains, in general, are a trigger for me. I don't digest them well and I notice that I get very bloated. Once I move to maintenance, I will likely only have them for splurges and they will not be in my regular diet. I will stick to starchy veggies, fruit and nuts.
It's really funny that P1 is almost a "one size fits all", but maintenance is so completely individual. Sure, in P1, we all make minor adjustments, but as a general rule of thumb, we are all following the same protocol. Then P3 & 4 hit and it is "every man for himself ". IMO, this is the only place that IP fails. They really don't prepare you for maintenance or even explain that you will have to play around with it and see what works.
Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend. I am off to make some protein pancakes! YUM!
Height: 5'-2" - 41 years old - 2015 Reboot: 165.4/136.0/135
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskiesahead
I think it was jenny who did a short vacation phase off (she mentioned it recently) and was very successful. But you have to do what feels right to you, and either way will be fine!
Yes, the first time on IP, we had a 10 day trip to Europe planned while I was on P1. By the time we left, I was 7# from goal, so I had lost the bulk of the weight. I did 1 week on P2 and 1 week on P3 before I left and then it was a free for all while I was on vacation. I gained 5# on vacation, got right back on P1 when I got back and within 1 week I was back to where I started before I left.
This time on IP, I took a break from P1 during the holidays and I did not phase off at all. I just went right from P1 to eating. I was also successful with this approach. During the month I took off (Dec). I ultimately stayed the same, but I should note that I kept my exercise program going during this time. Whereas when we went to Europe, I did not exercise at all.
Good morning IPer's!
This week was crazy for me and I didn't get a chance to come on the boards and chat with you guys this week.
Believe it or not, I had another good weigh in this morning, another 2#, so now I am only 2.4# from goal. 2 good weeks in a row being this close to goal is just astonishing. I have 2 more weeks and then I am beginning my phase off. I should be able to hit 135, but I will take "close enough" if I have to.
.................
It's really funny that P1 is almost a "one size fits all", but maintenance is so completely individual. Sure, in P1, we all make minor adjustments, but as a general rule of thumb, we are all following the same protocol. Then P3 & 4 hit and it is "every man for himself ". IMO, this is the only place that IP fails. They really don't prepare you for maintenance or even explain that you will have to play around with it and see what works.
YAY jenny Great losses the last few weeks, especially this close to goal!! You'll get to 135 for sure before the end of Feb
You're so right about P4 - there's very little guidance from IP. I know I asked my coach, who basically said don't worry, just separate carbs and fats, have fats at lunch, carbs at dinner. Beyond that, nada....I'm so glad for the maintainers here, even the rebooters, who've been through it all...everyone who continues to post and answer questions. I think a lot of us would be basket cases during maintenance if we were left to fly on our own
Hi HIS: Here's a link to a sale on cruises, especially if you & the daughter decide to share with a couple of friends (3 & 4th go free - except for port charges and that sort of thing) that way you could all split the costs: http://www.prestigecruises.com/index...ampaign=PCC212
It's NCL... not top of the line, but not a party barge either, and you get freestyle dining, which means no set time you must have dinner. Also unlimited drinks for free (but you didn't want to hear that, lol)
Also your heart rate range is supposed to be lower for aquarunning and swimming... here's the science. I used to teach Aquafit many years ago. https://www.asep.org/asep/asep/Heithold.pdf
Liana
Last edited by canadjineh; 02-14-2016 at 02:38 AM.
Just putting it out there for accountability .... Tomorrow, I will be making up for yesterday and today's choices... Happy Valentines Day my 3FC family ❤️
Mama - hope you ease back into ketosis and we all have to remember 'Rome wasn't built in a day'
Sue - you sound like you have a really great attitude about IP in general and a fantastic grasp of what you want to accomplish. I feel like when you are set in your goals and have a realistic plan to meet them , nothing can stop us ��
HIS - lol I missed the great bacon controversy for the most part - read a little bit before deciding I needed a 24 hour break from any thoughts of IP / phases
My 0.02 - and I didn't see the original post with the picture , just the one where the OP came back b*tching about the treatment
1. It's a private site and the admins get to set the rules, period
2. That said, I see both sides of the argument - it's suppose to be a support site but I am seeing it more and more - if something Off protocol is posted, posters get nasty and then folks start tagging admins
3. Maybe if more posters were publicly called out for inappropriate comments it would lessen them? Idk about this one - right now the admins say they ban people but I think it depends - and what constitutes an immediate ban vs a warning?
4. There is always going to be bs like this b/c let's be real - the majority of people never bother reading rules
just curious how you (Linda / Blue) feel about the current convo going on about the P4 support? I know we both did this w/o coaches but the year of P4 maintenance seems like a step in the right direction and a $ grab at the same time
So we had a great weekend - lots of private time, sleeping late, naps, and food
I gave myself a 36 hour break from being over obsessed - but I still thought about what I was eating too. We went to a fantastic BBQ place last night and finished off with an amazing banana pudding. I said I wouldn't but still plugged everything into MFP (or as close as I could) and - I ate like I still ran 10 miles
Started P1 / low carb this morning - a shake and a couple forks of egg - we had a really great complimentary breakfast buffet with our room that I couldnt let go
to waste.
I washed & dried my uh-oh jeans before we left and was able to get them on / zipped but am definitely a little puffy. I'll check out the damage tomorrow morning
just curious how you (Linda / Blue) feel about the current convo going on about the P4 support? I know we both did this w/o coaches but the year of P4 maintenance seems like a step in the right direction and a $ grab at the same time
First I've heard of this, had to go look on FB to see. As far as I know, my clinic doesn't do this, I'm pretty sure I can see my coach as needed in P4. I go in on Tuesday and I will ask her though.
For those that have been doing this with a clinic, wasn't that part of the agreement, that support would be there for P4? So, is this changing the rules somewhat, or will it be grandfathered in? Or does each clinic make its own rules (seems that they do as far as fees, from what I've read over the time I've been on this diet, fees are widely different )
For me personally, I would not spend the $$$ for a full year plan for P4. Ok, I'm not on P4 yet, but you know me, I'm one to always be looking ahead, you know But my take on it, is that you have to learn to find your own way. This new way of eating is for life, right? Some hand holding is nice, but maybe too much dependence on a coach telling us what to do may be counter productive. So for the first few weeks, from what I have heard you all say, there's a learning curve and input/checking/advice from a coach is good, do you think 6 months down the road it would be necessary? or necessary enough to pay for it?
Anyway, I will leave the drama to the FB peeps!
Another lovely P3 breakfast today, the other half of my strawberry cheesecake
My weight has been holding steady, 136.4 today, so still just up 1 lb from my lowest weight. DH took me out to lunch yesterday, and I was slightly off plan, not too bad, and we had a big salad with chicken and veg for dinner, so not a bad day.
Sooo looking forward to getting away next Saturday, that will be my first P4 day I'm a little bit antsy about P4, not too much, I think...scratch that... know I can do it... but I've been a bit worried about not being able to check the scale every day. DH, being the smart man that he is, said, well, that's just silly, we're driving down, why not just toss the scale into the trunk and take it along Of course! so obvious!
I tried on some summer clothes to take and yes, I have some that fit!! A few are just a bit loose, but they'll have to do.
Hope you all have a lovely Valentine's Day. Quiet day here for us, but DH got up before me this morning and came back to bed with coffee for both of us, a lovely way to start to day, and also gave me a couple of bottles of Skinny Grape wine ( because he says, it suits me now ) to enjoy on vacay, with a promise of a nice dinner out!
Happy Valentines Day everyone on a cold Wisconsin Day...
I appreciate all the comments and support for my current vacation plan. I think I will just kick the can out a few months on this. I am focused on P1 right now. My thoughts are if I don't phase off I will go into vacation 5 - 10# lighter and closer to goal. On the other I want to make sure I do this right because I want this to last and I want this to be the forever me...
A consignment shop in the area is having a bag sale yesterday and today. I went and picked up about 10-12 items for $10. Too crowded to try on anything, so I just picked things that I liked. Some stuff fits some is still too small, but I knew that would happen. My favorite (but does not fit yet) is s short sleeved red jacket from talbets . I think this is my new goal outfit. I also bought a pair for shorts in a size 12 (not even close to fitting -- but hope they will fit by May / June.
Last night we had our work holiday parting. We went to a curling club for a curling lesson. It was a lot of fun, although I fell over when I sent a stone down the ice. I brought both shrimp and veggies so I would have something to eat, but I brought soy nuts and a vanilla crispy square too incase. Most of what was brought was not IP compliant and the shrimp were going fast so I think I ate about 4 oz of shrimp and then 1 packet of soy nuts (I think that was a good strategy as i did not feel hungry)
Blue -- that was the deal with a lot of my cruise cloths - they fit but felt like they were getting a bit big. I could not see spending $ to get new stuff at this point. Since you are at goal, you might be able to go shopping in FL.
Beth -- sounds like a lovely weekend. Sounds like you are following the plan to a T. I am not sure how my clinic handles P4. I get frustrated / annoyed by the drama on Facebook at times, but the group is so large and you do not know if the people that are responding are really knowledgeable or not so I guess the rules are necessary.
Destony -- Sounds like you are having a P1 or P2 day tomorrow. Congrats for following the plan and putting it out for accountability.
Liana - interesting promotion.
HIS - would New Orleans work as a port as well? I have done Norwegian once and had a nice time. Also re carnival -- if you can avoid spring break and summer vacation you it should be ok. My folks like it because activities last later in the night (on our cruise it was pretty dead by 11 PM- of course the # of scooters needed during the cruise was high).
Jenny - you are doing great I think you will make it by the time you want to phase off. Thanks for sharing how you did the vacation and december. What would you recommend? We will be at a condo a lot of the time so I can control food to some degree. I want to eat fruit (but I know I will have to watch), I think the Mai Tais are going to be too high in calories so I will have to skip those (or keep as a treat).
I wanted a ruby ring for VDay. We went to kohls and they only had one so hubby and I shopped on line and found one (manufactured ruby and white saphires) -- hope I like it when it arrives. (I luv kohls 30% off coupons )
Linda - I'll check in with you tomorrow lady - you got this though!
Doing, surviving, & thankfully, almost through my P1 day (DH & I have never been big V-Day celebrators & our anniversary is actually the 16th )
Here recently, maintenance has felt a bit...idk, binge-and-purge(ish). I am trying to heed Jenny's warning...and its my fault...I'm not being super rigid about my choices...did I really need that banana pudding last night - I mean, really? Not one bite of it. Nor did I need a second plate of breakfast...
and it is a bit disconcerting when you read other folks who have maintained for longer periods talk about never doing desserts...or only having very rare / occasional splurge meals
I know, we're all different and I have managed to remain close to goal - but if I wasn't running / exercising 6 days a week...
and that bring me around to something DH said this weekend - he was amazingly considerate of the choices I made, but when watching me lament over breakfast this morning said "is it always going to be like this?" Not in a mean way - just honestly curious...
We discussed it - and the end result = I don't know.
He was like 'what's one more morning?' and I was trying to explain about how P1 helps offset my body trying to hang onto the extra calories I had Saturday. I could tell he thought it was bs - but he's never had a problem with his weight, and the one winter he did put on about 15 pounds, as soon as he quit drinking soda and eating chocolate / cereal every night, he lost the weight.
Plus I think about what we always tell each other in P1 when the scales would creep up - even after a minor cheat - about how it take 3,000+ extra calories to = 1 pound of fat...does this no longer apply in maintenance b/c of what we're eating...or is it 3,000+ calories spread out over a period of time as MFP would suggest. Plugging everything in yesterday led to a warning of "if every day were like today, you will be 10 pounds heavier in 5 weeks!"
Anyway, right now, what I am doing is working...how much further I can push it remains to be seen
and going back to the IP 1 year maintenance program - it's never going to be 'one size fits all' - here is another article on how the old scientific standard of CICO (calories in / calories out) is starting to be discredited: http://www.runnersworld.com/fridge-w...rld__Nutrition "...people were eating more calories but exercising more—and gaining weight.
This suggests there may be factors in addition to diet and activity that affect weight status. Emerging evidence indicates hormonal changes from lack of sleep and stress, environmental toxins, certain medications, low calcium status, the gut bacteria, and more may have an impact on body weight regulation, though more research needs to be done to figure out precisely how these factors affect weight status."
My mind is everywhere, so forgive the ramblings - but some thoughts I've been having about health / nutrition / maintenance in generally lately:
- make good / healthy / real food choices 80 - 90% of the time
- find your triggers - and make / force yourself to understand WHAT happens when you eat them. If you can't avoid eating them, or decide to have some, try to minimize / offset the side effects
- be especially careful of the "IDGAF" attitude with food / specific foods - if specific, it's probably a trigger food and exposure should be limited
- stop being scared of food
- take personal responsibility for your choices - life is 10% what happens, 90% how YOU react
- accept the occasional P1 or low calorie, low carb day as par-for-the-course
that's the great thing about MFP is being able to see patterns emerging 
there are a couple cool things to do and I have to admit, just taking 2 days to do nothing sounds wonderful. I haven't done something like this with DH ever - and only a handful of times before DD19 was born
Sunday will be a P1 day for sure
Got my HR up to 144 at one point, but it's so weird to feel like you're doing the work of an all-out sprint but you're physically only moving a couple of feet. 
I almost expected to come out of there looking 20 
)
I'm a little bit antsy about P4, not too much, I think...scratch that... know I can do it... but I've been a bit worried about not being able to check the scale every day. DH, being the smart man that he is, said, well, that's just silly, we're driving down, why not just toss the scale into the trunk and take it along 
Of course! so obvious! 
Happy Valentines Day everyone on a cold Wisconsin Day...
