I have been on EVERY diet. Literally. A few years ago I lost weight pretty quickly on the standard low carb, high fat diet. (think burgers with cheese and mayo, etc). A small part of me is craving some FAT! I am thinking out loud but I love ideal protein, esp the foods, SOME foods (chocolate drink, chocolaty chip pancakes, double chocolate chip brownie) and I love the weigh-ins and the measuring of my body fat each week. My weight loss is steady (but from what I can remember was about the same rate as the last time I low carbed with high fat). Would it be horrible to do a combo of both ideal protein with a higher fat diet?
With all the new research coming out about the goodness of fat, I wonder how it would pair with IP. (Even just typing this, I feel like a rebel!) But help me, I'm just thinking out loud.... Thanks for listening~
Would it be "horrible"? No. Would it be 100% Ideal Protein? No.
Ultimately, your weight loss will depend on the calories you take in vs. those burned each day. The protein calories are essential while in ketosis in order to maintain your muscle mass, so you definitely shouldn’t substitute them for fats. Yes, you will probably continue to lose weight if you add additional calories each day through fat. However, as you approach your goal weight, those additional calories may be enough to keep you from loosing.
I would strongly encourage you to think about why you went to IP instead of going back to the diet you were previously successful with though. What were you looking for that caused you to decided to spend this much on a diet? If it was the structure, then you probably don’t want to start tweaking this early. Give IP more time and get used to P1 and how you feel on it before introducing additional calories. It can be a slippery slope for some.
There are old 90% threads that have lots of discussion of this type of thing. The people on them were allowing themselves a variety of small deviations from the P1 sheet. Many of those people disappeared from 3FC before reaching goal though. That may mean their deviations got the best of them and they ended up going off plan entirely.
A few months in I made the decision to be less than 100%. I use regular salad dressing (with no sugar in the ingredients) a few times a week. I allow myself cheese at restaurants and once in a while at home (about 4 times a month). I often choose to use real protein in place of a packet at lunch and eggs instead of a packet for breakfast on weekends (the amount of processed food in IP still kinda bothers me). I am not 100% and I know these extras are slowing my loss. But they also make me feel better mentally day to day, which allows me to stay with IP for the long haul. These are decisions I made for myself and I am comfortable with them. I know myself and know that I will not allow myself deviations that will stop my weight loss (nothing that would risk pushing me out of ketosis). If it slows too far, then I will pull back to strict P1.
Only you can decide what will help you remain successful and reach your goal weight.
Would it be "horrible"? No. Would it be 100% Ideal Protein? No.
Ultimately, your weight loss will depend on the calories you take in vs. those burned each day. The protein calories are essential while in ketosis in order to maintain your muscle mass, so you definitely shouldn’t substitute them for fats. Yes, you will probably continue to lose weight if you add additional calories each day through fat. However, as you approach your goal weight, those additional calories may be enough to keep you from loosing.
I would strongly encourage you to think about why you went to IP instead of going back to the diet you were previously successful with though. What were you looking for that caused you to decided to spend this much on a diet? If it was the structure, then you probably don’t want to start tweaking this early. Give IP more time and get used to P1 and how you feel on it before introducing additional calories. It can be a slippery slope for some.
There are old 90% threads that have lots of discussion of this type of thing. The people on them were allowing themselves a variety of small deviations from the P1 sheet. Many of those people disappeared from 3FC before reaching goal though. That may mean their deviations got the best of them and they ended up going off plan entirely.
A few months in I made the decision to be less than 100%. I use regular salad dressing (with no sugar in the ingredients) a few times a week. I allow myself cheese at restaurants and once in a while at home (about 4 times a month). I often choose to use real protein in place of a packet at lunch and eggs instead of a packet for breakfast on weekends (the amount of processed food in IP still kinda bothers me). I am not 100% and I know these extras are slowing my loss. But they also make me feel better mentally day to day, which allows me to stay with IP for the long haul. These are decisions I made for myself and I am comfortable with them. I know myself and know that I will not allow myself deviations that will stop my weight loss (nothing that would risk pushing me out of ketosis). If it slows too far, then I will pull back to strict P1.
Only you can decide what will help you remain successful and reach your goal weight.
Super insightful. Thank you! The reason why I went off of my other plan had nothing to do with fats. It was more I let my sugar cravings get a hold of me again.
I have been on EVERY diet. Literally. A few years ago I lost weight pretty quickly on the standard low carb, high fat diet. (think burgers with cheese and mayo, etc). A small part of me is craving some FAT! I am thinking out loud but I love ideal protein, esp the foods, SOME foods (chocolate drink, chocolaty chip pancakes, double chocolate chip brownie) and I love the weigh-ins and the measuring of my body fat each week. My weight loss is steady (but from what I can remember was about the same rate as the last time I low carbed with high fat). Would it be horrible to do a combo of both ideal protein with a higher fat diet?
With all the new research coming out about the goodness of fat, I wonder how it would pair with IP. (Even just typing this, I feel like a rebel!) But help me, I'm just thinking out loud.... Thanks for listening~
I was super successful with the LC lifestyle, until I wasn't. Not saying this is you, but there are 2 things about LC/HF that I believe derail me:
1) Too much variety / no restrictions (except carbs)
2) My body now adapts way too quickly and weight loss comes to a screaming halt & I get frustrated & quit (or I just eat too much - who knows)
My (very) basic understanding of the IP science is in ketosis we are burning / depleting our current fat reserves - it would go to say that eating too much fat (even good fats like avocados) would counteract what eating LC/LF is trying to get our bodies to do. Here is the link to the IP Core Principals: http://www.idealprotein.com/us/ideal...ht-loss-method
Neither of these really touches much on the low(er) fat of the diet and my old coach touched on "good fats" (ie - its better to eat 1/2 an avocado than go off the rails completely with a slice of cake) - but it may be a 'slippery slope' issue - or it may be as the second link I posted pointed out - that other traditional LC diets like Atkins are higher in fats and place more stress on the kidneys (?) - I cannot verify that theory though.
I am not a doctor or a nutritionist ... but I think that whatever you need to do to keep your "calorie balance" in burn mode (that is, burning more calories than you are eating) and lose weight is a good thing. I lost 100 pounds on a "Macaroni and Cheese and Chocolate Chip Cookie" diet back in 2001-2002. (Not that I am advocating that as a healthy method). The key -- I only ate 1200 calories a day total. So you have to weigh and measure carefully. I lost between 10 and 15 pounds a month for a total of 100 over an 8 month period.
I am sure the IP diet is not for everyone, but it does work (as do many other diets). Ultimately you need to figure out what works for you and what you can stick with over a multi-month period while you are trying to lose weight.
I think more of an issue than how to lose weight is how to keep the weight off longer term. I have struggled with that since I passed the age 40 mark. IMHO, to have a successful maintenance at a lower weight, you have to institute lifestyle (permanent) changes. And if you can't control your eating (calories in) -- then you will need to exercise and burn a lot more. I started walking 3 to 4 miles a day up and down hills in my neighborhood in October -- and I am sure that has not only helped me lose this time around, but will also (hopefully) help me maintain a lower weight once I stop this extreme IP P1 protocol.
Last edited by Avalon1957; 03-30-2015 at 05:58 PM.
I am not a doctor or a nutritionist ... but I think that whatever you need to do to keep your "calorie balance" in burn mode (that is, burning more calories than you are eating) and lose weight is a good thing. I lost 100 pounds on a "Macaroni and Cheese and Chocolate Chip Cookie" diet back in 2001-2002. The key -- I only ate 1200 calories a day total. So you have to weigh and measure carefully. I lost between 12 and 15 pounds a month for a total of 100 over an 8 month period.
I am sure the IP diet is not for everyone, but it does work (as do many other diets). Ultimately you need to figure out what works for you and what you can stick with over a multi-month period while you are trying to lose massive amounts of weight.
I think more of an issue is keeping the weight off. I have struggled with that since I passed the age 40 mark. IMHO, to have a successful maintenance at a lower weight, you have to institute lifestyle (permanent) changes. And if you can't control your eating (calories in) -- then you will need to exercise and burn a lot more. I started walking 3 to 4 miles a day up and down hills in my neighborhood in October -- and I am sure that has not only helped me lose, but will also help me maintain a lower weight once I stop this extreme IP P1 protocol.
Thank you for that. I'd love to eat macaroni and cheese all day! But yes, that makes sense.
If you are aiming to burn fat, you want your body to burn STORED fat rather than dietary intake fat.
There is a fuel order that the body follows:-
Glucose in the blood and muscles from dietary nutrition (often called glycogen or glycostore) then carbs, then fats, then protein. After it runs out of available fuel for the activity level your body has then it will begin to breakdown muscle to convert it to glycogen.
Try and identify what you are craving about the fat. There ARE healthy fats (olive oil, coconut oil, pasture-fed butter) that CAN work within the IP macros, but you will fall out of 100% compliance and you do have to measure carefully to ensure that you aren't building eating habits that will be detrimental to your maintenance in future.
Personally, I do a trade off on the 2 tsp of healthy oils - if I'm cooking I will put it down to a single tsp of EVOO, but I supplement with a tsp of GMO free, organic extra virgin coconut oil. If I'm having pancakes I'll switch out one EVOO for a tsp of butter.
It depends how important the speed of loss is, what your physical activity level is at, whether you are simply wanting to lose fat or build muscle on the journey and if you are looking at overall health versus weight loss. Nobody can make those decisions for you, but if you know what your objective is you can always find a way forward.
Just a little note for the LC/HF dieters: Atkin's has changed quite a lot. I was on their site a couple weeks ago and they also have 4 phases now, very similar to IP with an emphasis on lower fats, more low carb vegetables as a "foundation" and using only 'good' fats like avocado and olive oil (no nuts at first and no dairy foods except a small bit of cheese or cream for your coffee.) It is no longer a high fat diet.
Gotta make you wonder why the change and why so close to IP protocol...
Their Phase 3 is also a premaintenance phase to up your carbs slowly to between 40 - 100g net, then Phase 4 is maintenance. Exactly like IP.
One of the main differences is that they allow use of diet drinks throughout the whole experience. Unfortunately this can affect the body's craving for sweet, which doesn't help when you get to maintenance.
Here's their new site: http://www.atkins.ca/
Caveat: I'm not advertising for their diet, just pointing out the "New Atkins" protocol.
I was super successful with the LC lifestyle, until I wasn't. Not saying this is you, but there are 2 things about LC/HF that I believe derail me:
1) Too much variety / no restrictions (except carbs)
2) My body now adapts way too quickly and weight loss comes to a screaming halt & I get frustrated & quit (or I just eat too much - who knows)
This was me, exactly. I low carbed for years and would have spectacular swan dives off the low-carb wagon. It just stopped working.
I was super successful with the LC lifestyle, until I wasn't. Not saying this is you, but there are 2 things about LC/HF that I believe derail me:
1) Too much variety / no restrictions (except carbs)
2) My body now adapts way too quickly and weight loss comes to a screaming halt & I get frustrated & quit (or I just eat too much - who knows)
My (very) basic understanding of the IP science is in ketosis we are burning / depleting our current fat reserves - it would go to say that eating too much fat (even good fats like avocados) would counteract what eating LC/LF is trying to get our bodies to do. Here is the link to the IP Core Principals: http://www.idealprotein.com/us/ideal...ht-loss-method
Neither of these really touches much on the low(er) fat of the diet and my old coach touched on "good fats" (ie - its better to eat 1/2 an avocado than go off the rails completely with a slice of cake) - but it may be a 'slippery slope' issue - or it may be as the second link I posted pointed out - that other traditional LC diets like Atkins are higher in fats and place more stress on the kidneys (?) - I cannot verify that theory though.
Thank you for that. I'd love to eat macaroni and cheese all day! But yes, that makes sense.
I hear you. That wild diet might not work for most people as I am not sure everybody could stop at 1200 calories the way I could. I actually fasted all day and started eating at 4pm so I jammed all my food at the end of the day when i tended to get cravings. It certainly was a strange diet and I am sure not very healthy.
That's one reason why I like Ideal Protein so much. On IP I eat all day long ... every 3 hours. And I feel like I eat a LOT. And I dont get any cravings once I am past the 2-5 day initial carb addiction break period. I am not sure with my body today that I could actually manage (be successful at) my old Mac&Cheese and Cookie diet. The Ideal Protein Diet is both easier to stick to and healthier.
Last edited by Avalon1957; 03-30-2015 at 09:44 PM.
Just a little note for the LC/HF dieters: Atkin's has changed quite a lot. I was on their site a couple weeks ago and they also have 4 phases now, very similar to IP with an emphasis on lower fats, more low carb vegetables as a "foundation" and using only 'good' fats like avocado and olive oil (no nuts at first and no dairy foods except a small bit of cheese or cream for your coffee.) It is no longer a high fat diet.
Gotta make you wonder why the change and why so close to IP protocol...
Their Phase 3 is also a premaintenance phase to up your carbs slowly to between 40 - 100g net, then Phase 4 is maintenance. Exactly like IP.
One of the main differences is that they allow use of diet drinks throughout the whole experience. Unfortunately this can affect the body's craving for sweet, which doesn't help when you get to maintenance.
Here's their new site: http://www.atkins.ca/
Caveat: I'm not advertising for their diet, just pointing out the "New Atkins" protocol.
Liana
That is interesting Liana - of course, Atkins tends to jump on the popular trends. I just happened to catch a "new" Atkins commercial on TV with Sharon Osbourne (Ozzy's wife / one of the singing shows / etc...) and she was touting her 25# weight loss and the new plan allows whole grains! Sounded "paleo-ish" to me...but boy does that spit in the face of everything I learned over the last 12 years!
I was / am a member over on 'activelowcarb forum' (trust me - don't go over there to talk about IP!!!!!)...So many of the hard-core regulars were proponents of VLC / HF (slather a 20oz porterhouse in butter kind of stuff) & intermittent fasting.
I may go peak around on the "War" forum and see if anyone has been talking about the new protocol.
Would it be horrible to do a combo of both ideal protein with a higher fat diet?
I do this. I am not 100% IP, but I adhere to the core values of the Tran Tien plan as he posts it on his website. My weight loss is marginally slower than it was last year when I was 100% IP OP, but I was hungry all. the. time. and getting pretty obsessive over my next meal. It wasn't sustainable and when I went off-plan, it was in a big way. It's not necessarily like that for someone else. You have to do what works for you, and for most people just starting out, being 100% OP is the most reliable option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wahoofan
Would it be "horrible"? No. Would it be 100% Ideal Protein? No.
A few months in I made the decision to be less than 100%. I use regular salad dressing (with no sugar in the ingredients) a few times a week.
I am not 100% and I know these extras are slowing my loss. But they also make me feel better mentally day to day, which allows me to stay with IP for the long haul. These are decisions I made for myself and I am comfortable with them. I know myself and know that I will not allow myself deviations that will stop my weight loss (nothing that would risk pushing me out of ketosis). If it slows too far, then I will pull back to strict P1.
I agree completely with Wahoofan. I ate a LOT of super-processed stuff last year when I was 100% OP (I think I had the entire Walden Farms collection), and I personally don't think a lot of the IP foods are much better. Though I still use non-IP protein powder and bars, but once I run out I will switch to 100% whey protein with no additives.
My perspective has changed a lot, for me it's not just calories but quality. Especially because we're TTC, and we're in France, where processed food is basically unavailable. Whole foods, quasi-Paleo (without the carbs, for now), that's helping me a lot. It's not a race to goal for me this time (in part because I don't have a specific event in mind as my goal). I just want to recomp my body in the healthiest way possible and I'm - finally - ready to allow as much time as that takes.
LuckyDVL - The super processed stuff is what kills me with IP. Pre-IP I was trying to eat as many whole foods and possible and avoid processed crap. I felt amazing doing that. I wasn't losing weight though, hence IP. Now that I'm phasing off IP I have myself a new plan involving whole foods (with some casein and whey isolate as I am a power lifter) and I cannot wait! It's so nice that processed food is basically unavailable in France. No wonder the French are so healthy!
Just a little note for the LC/HF dieters: Atkin's has changed quite a lot. I was on their site a couple weeks ago and they also have 4 phases now, very similar to IP with an emphasis on lower fats, more low carb vegetables as a "foundation" and using only 'good' fats like avocado and olive oil (no nuts at first and no dairy foods except a small bit of cheese or cream for your coffee.) It is no longer a high fat diet.
Gotta make you wonder why the change and why so close to IP protocol...
Their Phase 3 is also a premaintenance phase to up your carbs slowly to between 40 - 100g net, then Phase 4 is maintenance. Exactly like IP.
One of the main differences is that they allow use of diet drinks throughout the whole experience. Unfortunately this can affect the body's craving for sweet, which doesn't help when you get to maintenance.
Here's their new site: http://www.atkins.ca/
Caveat: I'm not advertising for their diet, just pointing out the "New Atkins" protocol.
Liana
The main reason the Atkins plan changed is that after Dr. Atkins death, his wife sold the company. Those running it now wanted to make it more "mainstream" (this is also when most of the processed Atkins foods came out, although there were a few when the doc was the honcho).
The company still bears his name but they are NOT doing what Dr. Atkins was doing. There are others who more closely align with Dr. Atkins' science. Books by Phinney and Volek will sound much more "Atkins-like" than anything this current company is doing.
Something I've been battling 2 weeks in...
But yes, that makes sense.
