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Maintainers Vol 13

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Old 03-09-2014, 11:08 AM   #391
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I am finding adding back in a bit adventurous. Because I am really focusing on the healthy lean, protein aspect I am trying things I would not have tried before and really liking it. I have never had steel cut oats. Today, had them with 1/2 cup fresh blueberries and yum!
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:16 AM   #392
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I am finding adding back in a bit adventurous. Because I am really focusing on the healthy lean, protein aspect I am trying things I would not have tried before and really liking it. I have never had steel cut oats. Today, had them with 1/2 cup fresh blueberries and yum!
I am so excited to hear that because I've always loved oatmeal. My coach told me if you soak them overnight in water, you don't have to cook as long in the morning so I bought some today!
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:20 AM   #393
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Good Morning to all !!! I am viewing the many successes of others , congratulations to all !!! I am wondering what is going wrong with my success. WI 7 will be on 3/12/14. Lost 15 pounds in 3 weeks but WI.4 - WI.7 has been a yo-yo. Today I get on the scale to find that I have a 20 lb loss after 6 weeks and 900 + dollars. Better than no loss, but just looking at what some of you Ipeeps, I feel like a failure. I am drowning in water I drink what's required by the hardest. I eat the same meals daily, trying to keep it simple. my favorite Proteins (fish or shrimp) Veggies (zucchini, spinach or broccoli) and of course my afternoon snack strawberry wafers. This week i had wafers every other day instead. That makes life miserable. I love those things. lol... My coach only says, Your doing great ! your losing. You won't be shrinking violet.... I see many of you doing so much better. I have lost 10 inches in 4 weeks . and no inches since.... OMG. Not looking for a miracle, just saying ...... 20lbs x $900 = Wow !!! Any Idea's ???
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:50 AM   #394
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Default Losing an average of 3 lbs a week is about right

Hi there...This thread is for the maintainers...people who have achieved their goal. The challenges at maintenance are different...and believe it or not for the most part, life at this point gets harder and harder!! It is actually more satisfying to maintain than lose in spite of how hard it is.. That mental satisfaction however is the reward for sticking it out through the loss phase and continuing to figure how to maintain!! It's never over. Don't kid yourself on this one....
I think you are tracking just fine for your first few months.

Most, esp when there is a great deal to lose, lose more on the scale and lose it faster initially...then everyone tapers off...Best to track your average weekly loss rather than "expect" a set amount at this time. You are past the initial leg of your journey now, and there will be weeks where it gets hard, because you are losing the hard to lose "real fat". No loss or small losses at weigh in do not mean because the scale is "not moving" to your liking...you are not "losing". Weight loss is not linear...Measurements should also be tracked. How do your clothes fit? Any size changes yet?

You're doing just fine...6 weeks and 20 lbs?? I'd lost just barely 15 at that point!!! Check the active loser postings and you will see you are about average...but remember we don't assume an average for the folks on here. Any loss is good!!! I think you need to go back to the daily chat thread and the threads posted by those who have been on the losing track for a few months now and READ READ READ...
to get a realistic idea of what to expect.

The readers and posters here know the reality of this...and will tell it like it is!

Also...a few "IP commandments to live by":
1. Follow the P1 sheet to the letter. If you hijack things...you are on your own because the answers to your questions will be compromised by what you are doing.
2. Don't compare yourself to others statistically in your journey. The human body is complex. Why would you expect (want) to be like anyone else?!
3. Only is a 4 letter word.
4. Gain inspiration from the success here...and know that your individual commitment and striving to reach your goal is "payback inspiration" to others in your posts.
5. Reread #1, 2 and 3.

Best of luck.... Someday... we hope to see you are posting in the "maintainers" thread with your personal insights and words of wisdom!

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Old 03-09-2014, 07:30 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by vachinyc View Post
Thanks. This is helpful. I have to admit, I thought I'd be thrilled to add things back into my diet but I'm a little daunted by the choices and less strict boundaries. I'm sure it takes some getting used to
You are welcome. I forgot one little bit. You do want to make sure the protein in grams is AT LEAST half your body weight as a first target. If you exercise at all, it should be no problem to go over that minimum.

So if you were super sedentary and had a really slow metabolism, your macros might look like 1550 calories, 308 calories/77g protein/20% minimum. You might not have to go the full 8oz at lunch and dinner, but you do want to make sure you don't slack on protein. I suggested the starting point of 465 cal/116g protein, 620 cal/155 g carbs and 465 cal/52g fats. Honestly, I would fully expect your calorie total to be able to go higher than that.

Consider increasing by 100 calories a day for a week and see what happens until you don't like what happens and cut back by 100 calories. I believe the Atkins people do that with carbs in 5g increments. REALITY CHECK: food counts are off by as much as 25% so be reasonable about how much science there is in this. It is easier to follow the IP guidelines of a minimum of 4 cups of veggies a day, a minimum of protein based on your weight, p3 breakfast, a fat or more at lunch, a carb or two at dinner, and 1 to 3 snacks of 100 to 200 calories.

Looks like you are starting to add back things and will soon get the hang of it.
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home scale: 114 to 126, 19% to 30%BF
2014 reset: Ja22: 124.2/27.1%; Ja29: 121/25.9%; Fe5: 119.6/25.3%; p2...Fe12: 117.5/24.5%; p3...Fe19: 116.8/24.1%; p4...117.8/24.5%
Goal #1: correct sucralose deficiency (minimize sugar cravings)
Goal #2: lower the bodyfat to reflect time spent at the gym

Last edited by infoplease : 03-12-2014 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:45 PM   #396
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I am so excited to hear that because I've always loved oatmeal. My coach told me if you soak them overnight in water, you don't have to cook as long in the morning so I bought some today!
Cool thanks for the tip!
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:48 PM   #397
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Maile,
Thank you for the Beck stuff. I am going to delve into that stuff further. It is really meaningful. I randomly found this on the Beck website:

Is There One Right Way to Eat?

A recent study compared two groups of obese individuals: one group assigned to eat three larger meals per day without snacks, and one group assigned to eat smaller meals every two to three hours. At their six month follow-up, researchers found that while those who ate more frequently reported lower levels of hunger throughout the day, they did not end up taking in fewer calories or lose more weight than those eating larger, less frequent meals (Bachman & Raynor, 2012).

These results are not surprising. In our CBT for weight loss and maintenance program at the Beck Institute, we've found that chronic dieters initially hold dysfunctional beliefs. For example, they often are certain that there is just one "right" way to balance meals and snacks. They continually search for the magic bullet: the perfect combination of foods consumed according to the perfect schedule that will allow them to lose weight, easily, and keep it off permanently. Without this magic bullet, they tend to believe that success will be nearly impossible. It is important for chronic dieters to change these faulty, maladaptive beliefs.

When we first introduce chronic dieters to the skill of "eating according to a schedule," they are often confused. This skill is contrary to popular lore that encourages a belief that is actually maladaptive for chronic dieters-that is, that people should eat when they're hungry and refrain from eating when they are not hungry. Our approach is different. We help dieters create and learn to follow an individualized eating schedule. Why? Because, time after time, chronic dieters confuse hunger with a number of other physiological or emotional states. They experience an urge to eat when they are feeling thirsty, stressed, bored, tired, or upset. Or when they are in a social setting where others are eating; when they see or smell food; when they just think about food. Many dieters simply cannot rely on their sense of "hunger" (which actually becomes confused with any desire to eat) to determine when to eat. So instead of teaching them the "right" way to schedule their meals and snacks, we help them figure out an individual schedule that is reasonable, practical, and maintainable for life. The precise schedule our dieters select to guide their eating is actually less important than the skills we teach them to adhere to that schedule.

When we begin working on this skill, many dieters choose to follow an eating schedule that consists of eating three meals and three snacks. As they progress and master important cognitive behavioral skills (such as tolerating cravings), they often choose to experiment with adjusting their eating schedules-especially when they find that they just don't need to be eating as frequently throughout the day. Finally, they begin to grasp the concept that the number or timing of their meals and snacks is not the crucial component to weight loss. Instead, being able to follow a schedule that is healthy, reasonable, and consistently maintainable is what helps them lose weight and keep it off.

As dieters become adept at the skill of eating according to a schedule, they discover they no longer have to struggle through each day combatting their urges to eat. The experience is actually quite liberating. They prove to themselves that if it's not time to eat, they can refrain from eating. This relieves them from the burden of having to make spontaneous food decisions and exert willpower at any given moment. Ultimately, we have found (and research indicates) that there is no one "right" way to eat. When dieters find a maintainable schedule that works for them, they've found the way that's right for them.

Bachman, J. L., & Raynor, H. A. (2012). Effects of manipulating eating frequency during a behavioral weight loss intervention: A pilot randomized controlled trial. Obesity 20, 985-92.


I'm thinking of just making a rolling list of foods I think I miss and work one or two in a day.

I also researched the Jorge Cruise stuff a little. It seems that program allows 100 calories (25 grams) of (sugar defined as any carbs, not just sugars in foods) a day BUT vegetables and fruit from a list are not part of the sugars. And this is total carbs for those things, not net carbs. There is also a relatively high fiber requirement that escapes me right now.

Plus, in going over my mfp diaries during the reset, p1 day sugars were typical in the teens and twenties with an occasional weekly spike to 32 or 36. That is sugars from vegetables but not total carbs, which I believe stayed at or below 50 NET.

The part that I found interesting was that this is done just by food lists and not by following the numbers. I did tend to pick spinach or kale with jicama rather than the red peppers which was my go-to p4 salad stuff, and I actually do think that made a difference.
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194.4/120 started IP 11.2.11, P4 117.3-120.3, officially from Aug 2012 to Jan 2013
home scale: 114 to 126, 19% to 30%BF
2014 reset: Ja22: 124.2/27.1%; Ja29: 121/25.9%; Fe5: 119.6/25.3%; p2...Fe12: 117.5/24.5%; p3...Fe19: 116.8/24.1%; p4...117.8/24.5%
Goal #1: correct sucralose deficiency (minimize sugar cravings)
Goal #2: lower the bodyfat to reflect time spent at the gym
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:58 PM   #398
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infoplease, that is so timely and helpful! I checked out the Beck book, too, but haven't started it. Your quote tells me that it will be invaluable. Thank-you! I'm reading something interesting that I stumbled upon by accident:
The Sugar Addict's Total Recovery Program" by DesMaisons. The title sounds a little dubious, but her hypothesis about sugar sensitive people and what makes them that way sound credible. (I'll post more if the rest of the book is as good as the beginning chapters).
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #399
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Mars: Thanks for posting that. I will check it out as I believe in sugar addiction and anything that I can learn will be helpful. Beck is good and her workbook and tapes are also excellent. She is very good at encouraging positive self talk.

Infoplease: That was an excellent article. I agree that people are looking for the magic bullet to succeed. It is interesting that she gets people used to a reasonable schedule of eating, rather than relying on hunger.
I read that true hunger can be flexible, with time or food..but that cravings demand specific foods and are insatiable.

I am on a schedule that stays the same pretty much.

Adding foods that you miss is a good idea. That may be why I do not do fun days. I have added many of the foods I loved in healthier versions such as roasted onion rings or zuchinni chips. I feel like I am having treats.

That was interesting that Cruise did not count carbs from fruits and vegetables. I am going to have to check this out.
Do you think eating the spinach and jicama worked better because they were lower carb than the peppers?

Vachiny: Hang in there. I had weeks of up and down losing and my loss slowed down. You will do it!
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:30 AM   #400
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Thanks, Maile. I will get rest of the Beck series. Re sugar addiction, same here. I think the book is sound and helpful too, even if someone doesn't fit the sugar sensitive description precisely.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:32 PM   #401
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I was told net carbs. That is what I use. Enjoy your P3 meals! I love the breakfasts.

Mars: That was good advice. There are definitely daily fluctuations on that scale! I am glad you liked the article. It sounds like you are making good moderate choices in maintenance.

Eandc: I enjoy my fruit breakfasts. I do agree with you that 5 pounds can make a difference in how your clothes fit. You are wise to give yourself some leeway. I hope you enjoy your skiing and that it gets warmer. I often save my carbs for the morning. That was interesting about your coach's advice.

Canadadjineh: I also love aged cheese. I definitely use it as a treat as it is so good. I hope you enjoy your anniversary celebration!


Infoplease: I think you are right..The Previously overweight people on the Registry most likely are recovered insulin resistant people. It seems like you are figuring out your fun days so that the up pounds are lowered. I have not had cake for breakfast..but have eaten pizza or lasagna. I figure ..get those carbs in early. 15 gm of sugar seems low. I may have to start tracking my sugar. I do think that cutting out wine, helps me on losing up pounds.and it does have sugar.

Lately I have been thinking about the National Weight Control Registry and its statistics that only 50 percent of the people who have maintained for two years, keep the weight off. This of course is better than the 5 percent in the first year who keep the weight off. It is not until the 5th year of maintenance that 80% keep off the weight.

Here is information that I posted about Beck and attainable verses achievable weight. One thing she comments is that we age, our metabolisms slow down and we burn less calories. Not written by me.

Here is Judith Beckís take (from her blog (I also highly recommend, you can get her free newsletter there) at www.beckdietsolution.co
m/diet-solution-blog/ ):
ď[the] concept of Ďideal weightí Ė itís the weight that you get down to when youíre eating and exercising in a healthy way that you can maintain. Now this weight may not the weight of your thinnest friend, it may not be the weight you were at in college, and it almost definitely isnít the weight of the celebrities we see on television. In our minds, your ideal weight is the weight that you can get down to and stay at, not the weight that you can get down to, then gain some weight back, then work on losing it again, then gaining it back again. We just donít believe that itís worth getting down to a weight that you ultimately canít maintain (by either exercising or eating in a way that is not sustainable) because youíll just gain it back and then feel very discouraged.Ē

My note:

This is exactly what Iíve been experiencing. Though I can get to 120s when Iím obsessively focused on it, itís not sustainable because it takes too much restriction.

She then goes on to say, ďItís also important to know that most people, when they lose weight, get down to what we call their lowest achievable weight. However, most people donít stay there! They eventually end up relaxing their habits just a bit and gaining a few pounds back and end up leveling off at we call their lowest maintainable weight. Their lowest achievable weight is probably not their lowest maintainable weight because it would require intense focus on their eating and exercise.Ē

Finally Beck gives very practical ways to learn to accept ourselves at this lowest maintainable weight, which for me, isnít the weight Iíve been telling myself I should weigh:

She says, ďÖ you [donít] have to be at all unhappy with where you are now. In fact, you should be extremely proud of yourself for the weight you did lose and for all of the hard work and dedication you put into it. Instead of focusing on the 10 pounds you didnít lose, think instead about all of the weight you did lose. Even if youíre not quite at the weight you wanted to get down to starting out, think aboutÖDo you feel better about yourself?...Ē

She continues, ďYou can also ask yourself: How would my life really be different if I lost another 10 pounds? Would the differences be so significant? Is it possible that Iím already experiencing many of the things I wanted to achieve, even though the number on the scale isnít what I initially had in mind? It sounds like it may be worth working on changing your concept of your own ideal weight, feeling proud about where you are, and move forward appreciating all the wonderful changes that have come about as a result of losing weight."



If you have reached a weight plateau:

Regarding your food plan, ask yourself:
Do I want to eat less?
Will I get enough satisfaction if I eat less?
Will eating less be healthy and fit into my lifestyle?
Could I live with this food plan comfortably for the long term?

Regarding your exercise plan, ask yourself:
Do I really want to increase the frequency, duration and intensity of my exercise?
Will I have enough time and energy to devote to more exercise?
Will exercising more be healthy for me? Or will I be overdoing it?
Will I easily be able to keep up an increased level of exercise for the long term?

What if your lowest maintainable weight is HIGHER than the weight you wish to achieve? "But I want to be thinner" thinking....

Continue to enrich your life...in ways other than losing weight.

Focus on the parts of your body that please you the most.

Say to yourself "oh well"....

Focus on how you've improved.

Change your comparison.

Prepare yourself mentally before you weigh yourself.

Accept compliments from others.

Act "as if."

"The richer your life, the less you'll focus on your weight."
We attempted a trip to the mountains but the traffic was horrendous and we turned around which turned out to be the right decision because we were able to rest and enjoy the beautiful 70 degree weather yesterday. It was heaven.

So much to think about here and consider with losing/maintaining, etc. I also need to get on board and check on Beck's. I am still going strong on phase 3 and am about 129-130 depending on the day and my old dial scale...it can be touchy at times. I do feel overwhelmed thinking about all this stuff at once but then I remember one day and a time...one day is all I can do.

I do think there is value in celebrating what you have lost, even if its not all of it. There is no need to wage a war with our bodies and you are right, what we see on TV is a far cry from reality. In fact, it's no where near it.

On another note, this has me really thinking about my lowest achievable vs lowest maintainable weight. For several years, I maintained at 130 and I had to watch what I ate but I was not deprived at all. I never tried to go any lower (really tried longer than a few days) and so in some ways I am not sure what I could get down to. With that said, my wheels are turning. Hmmmmm..

Thinking of you all today and sending happy thoughts of spring your way.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:35 PM   #402
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You are welcome. I forgot one little bit. You do want to make sure the protein in grams is AT LEAST half your body weight as a first target. If you exercise at all, it should be no problem to go over that minimum.

So if you were super sedentary and had a really slow metabolism, your macros might look like 1550 calories, 308 calories/77g protein/20% minimum. You might not have to go the full 8oz at lunch and dinner, but you do want to make sure you don't slack on protein. I suggested the starting point of 465 cal/116g protein, 620 cal/155 g carbs and 465 cal/52g fats. Honestly, I would fully expect your calorie total to be able to go higher than that.

Consider increasing by 100 calories a day for a week and see what happens until you don't like what happens and cut back by 100 calories. I believe the Atkins people do that with carbs in 5g increments. REALITY CHECK: food counts are off by as much as 25% so be reasonable about how much science there is in this. It is easier to follow the IP guidelines of a minimum of 4 cups of veggies, a minimum of protein based on your weight, p3 lunch, a fat or more at lunch, a carb or two at dinner, and 1 to 3 snacks of 100 to 200 calories.

Looks like you are starting to add back things and will soon get the hang of it.
So helpful - thank you. While I used to like my clinic and coach, things have gotten rather weak lately. They moved the scale to the waiting room and you don't go sit in your coach's office, you just weigh then move to the food pantry to buy. She barely talks to me now because appt are 15 min apart. (Used to be 30). My phase 3 and phase 4 conversations were basically...here, read this. All of this is made more annoying because the appointments themselves cost $20. Just to weigh in. I think this is more what the Dr is demanding, versus my coach. But the reality is, poor service. it's frustrating to have this happen so late in the game.

So, THANK YOU! I should probably send you the $20

I also am starting the Beck book.

Maile- you are an inspiration.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:57 PM   #403
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For those of you who just started Phase 3 - are you feeling a little bloated at all? I have a touch of the big C since starting 2 days ago despite still taking some magnesium citrate before bed.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:50 AM   #404
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Good Morning to all !!! I am viewing the many successes of others , congratulations to all !!! I am wondering what is going wrong with my success. WI 7 will be on 3/12/14. Lost 15 pounds in 3 weeks but WI.4 - WI.7 has been a yo-yo. Today I get on the scale to find that I have a 20 lb loss after 6 weeks and 900 + dollars. Better than no loss, but just looking at what some of you Ipeeps, I feel like a failure. I am drowning in water I drink what's required by the hardest. I eat the same meals daily, trying to keep it simple. my favorite Proteins (fish or shrimp) Veggies (zucchini, spinach or broccoli) and of course my afternoon snack strawberry wafers. This week i had wafers every other day instead. That makes life miserable. I love those things. lol... My coach only says, Your doing great ! your losing. You won't be shrinking violet.... I see many of you doing so much better. I have lost 10 inches in 4 weeks . and no inches since.... OMG. Not looking for a miracle, just saying ...... 20lbs x $900 = Wow !!! Any Idea's ???
I just wanted to say that your stats are pretty good! I am in week 4 and down 13lbs. I was at one point loosing half a pound a day and then after my TOM I had a little plateau for about a week and a half and now, just this morning i saw a drop in the scale! The price IS crazy and I switched to alternatives for that reason....since the diet is working for you ,and at a pretty good incline, maybe try substituting with some alternatives to save you money? Whatever you choose, don't give up, your doing great, it will be all worth it in the end...think of how good it will feel to have lost weight for summer, when it decides to show up that is.....
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:20 AM   #405
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We attempted a trip to the mountains but the traffic was horrendous and we turned around which turned out to be the right decision because we were able to rest and enjoy the beautiful 70 degree weather yesterday. It was heaven.

So much to think about here and consider with losing/maintaining, etc. I also need to get on board and check on Beck's. I am still going strong on phase 3 and am about 129-130 depending on the day and my old dial scale...it can be touchy at times. I do feel overwhelmed thinking about all this stuff at once but then I remember one day and a time...one day is all I can do.

I do think there is value in celebrating what you have lost, even if its not all of it. There is no need to wage a war with our bodies and you are right, what we see on TV is a far cry from reality. In fact, it's no where near it.

On another note, this has me really thinking about my lowest achievable vs lowest maintainable weight. For several years, I maintained at 130 and I had to watch what I ate but I was not deprived at all. I never tried to go any lower (really tried longer than a few days) and so in some ways I am not sure what I could get down to. With that said, my wheels are turning. Hmmmmm..
eandc: Glad you had a good weekend despite getting stuck in traffic.
I have a similar thought process about what is my ideal weight and could I maintain it. I like what you wrote about not waging war with our bodies. Celebrating success is something some of us tend to avoid, as if it will invite bad luck such as weight gain. Part of maintenance, for me at least, is to wrap my head around and enjoy all the things that are easier to do now: looking in the mirror, wearing new clothes, exercising and just moving around, having people not recognize me, etc. My favorite thing is telling people I've just met how much weight I lost and hearing them say I don't look like someone who ever had a weight issue.

I think that embracing the joyful feelings of success will make further weight loss --or not---a positive experience rather than 'waging war with our bodies.'

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