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Maintainers Vol 13

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Old 03-05-2014, 11:53 AM   #376
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Hey Mars. I am feeling much stronger today than last night. It was a low point on this reboot...the lowest actually. That being said, I have been going back and forth of when to move to phase 3...should I wait until I get to 125 (which could take several more weeks), or should I move forward with conscious eating and see how my body responds to the additional carbs in the morning? For the life of me, I cannot remember if I gained the last time I did phase 3. I do feel as if the restrictive aspect is causing me to dream of food...and foods that I usually wouldn't want, crave, or eat regularly for that matter.

Congrats on cutting out the Mio and the splenda shakes and snacks. I never had the Mio but I have been reading that people seem to get triggered from it. It sounds like you have a healthy approach to stop using it and recognize that it contributes negatively.

I would like to begin exercising soon. I ride my bike a lot in the summer and really enjoy walking with my husband and dogs. We live downtown Denver so there is always something to see and do around here. This winter has been horribly cold and really kept me indoors more than I would like. I have found that exercise when pleasurable, is easier for me to do regularly. I have thought about taking up walking at least 3 miles per day and then maybe even building up to running.

How about you? Do you exercise regularly.
Your dilemma re whether to move on to P3 resonates. I admire your determination to stick to your goal, which sounds realistic. Also impressive that you accomplished this in the dead of winter!! It's so much easier to stick to a diet in warm & sunny season. (I plan to work on the last 5 lbs in spring summer).

btw, The weight you MAY regain when carbs are re-introduced should not make your clothes tight. It's glycogen and the water that glycogen molecules attract, not bloaty water weight. That said, it makes me question what is my "real" weight while on P1 vs the scale. Is it actually a few pounds higher, masked because of glycogen depletion? Hope that makes sense.

My ripe old age, old running injuries, inappropriate orthotics prescription, weight took their toll and I haven't yet figured out how to exercise without aggravating what is now mild arthritis in one hip. I'm about to start working with Iyengar yoga to re-align my legs, address flat feet, strengthen muscles safely (for me). TMI...: )
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:51 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by eandc2006 View Post
Hey Mars. I am feeling much stronger today than last night. It was a low point on this reboot...the lowest actually. That being said, I have been going back and forth of when to move to phase 3...should I wait until I get to 125 (which could take several more weeks), or should I move forward with conscious eating and see how my body responds to the additional carbs in the morning?

Congrats on cutting out the Mio and the splenda shakes and snacks. I never had the Mio but I have been reading that people seem to get triggered from it. It sounds like you have a healthy approach to stop using it and recognize that it contributes negatively.

I would like to begin exercising soon. I ride my bike a lot in the summer and really enjoy walking with my husband and dogs. We live downtown Denver so there is always something to see and do around here. This winter has been horribly cold and really kept me indoors more than I would like. I have found that exercise when pleasurable, is easier for me to do regularly. I have thought about taking up walking at least 3 miles per day and then maybe even building up to running.

How about you? Do you exercise regularly.
eandc: I'm so glad you are feeling better, sometimes we just have 'one of those days.' I started Phase 3 when I weighed 135ish lbs which was actually 3 pounds from goal, but I thought what the heck, that's close enough and still a healthy weight for my height and bone structure. My body just needed a better breakfast to get to my comfortable goal weight. You could probably give yourself a bit of time on Phase 1 if you felt uncomfortable with the weight you are at right now. Once you are in your goal range, then phase off properly. Just remember not to stress too much about the glycogen refill - check your clothes fit, and measurements.

Re: abstainers or moderators lol, we all want to convert others to what works for us... just in our natures to try & be helpful, I guess. As for me, I find I am more of a moderator, but only lately since I have had to abstain from cheese in Phase 1/2. Previous to that, I was a cheese fiend and especially at TOM I could eat a pound (no lie) at one sitting, one chunk at a time repeatedly almost until I was sick - I just couldn't seem to stop, even though I wrapped up the cheese and put it away in the fridge drawer each time. Can't figure out what's with that except that it has been proven that cheese has opiate like qualities that go directly into the bloodstream and cross the blood-brain barrier. Maybe I was a junkie?!

Perhaps I shall have to watch that I don't get carried away with flavourful old cheeses again now that I'm using (how apt a term lol) it on maintenance for my lunches. We'll see...

I'm getting back to more activity now that I'm not feeling too bad (I have fibromyalgia and arthritis) so looking forward to nordic skiing and snowshoeing next week with my hubby at a mountain resort (it's our 32nd anniversary). I have been out walking at least and will be getting back to deep water running (since it doesn't hurt my joints) and Aquacize with a friend.

A little tough for outdoor activity right now as it is -2C snowing like crazy, up to 10 cm, but tonight changing to 10mm of rain and highs of +11C in the next couple of days. We will have some major flooding issues here! I'm glad my place is high enough from the river and shouldn't be too affected.

Liana
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:58 PM   #378
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My ripe old age, old running injuries, inappropriate orthotics prescription, weight took their toll and I haven't yet figured out how to exercise without aggravating what is now mild arthritis in one hip. I'm about to start working with Iyengar yoga to re-align my legs, address flat feet, strengthen muscles safely (for me). TMI...: )
mars735, I would suggest trying out a deep water running class or an aquacize class if you are uncomfortable with deep water. I find this works the best for my arthritis while still giving me a vigorous workout. I used to prescribe it for most of my physio clients (check my profile for more info on me) and many athletes use it for rehab after injury or just general strength in all ranges of motion. You can make it as hard or as easy as you like.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:01 PM   #379
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Hey all. You are right Canadjineh, sometimes we do just have one of those days and yesterday was certainly one for me. Thanks again to all who listened, offered words of wisdom, encouragement and support. I am taking in slow today. Feel very hungry and have already ate half of my snack that I usually eat around 3 in the afternoon and its only 12. Maybe my body is telling me to move forward to phase 3 and see how things go. I am thinking I may start tomorrow. Who knows. I could go another week. Just trying to take it slow and not get too mixed up with the number on the scale. I really do feel good and I think I also look good as well so that definitely counts as important. I will keep everyone updated. I hope you are all having a great day. Last night was snow, today its warming up, and tomorrow will be a heat wave up to 60. I can't wait!
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:27 PM   #380
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Hey maintainers. I started phase 3 today and it was really nice to have a bfast. Nervous about gaining...I was sitting at 130-131 this morning (have a dial scale and its touchy) so I figured I would move forward. Of course I would love to be at 125 but I am hoping that like Canadjineh that I will drop a few more lbs. I plan on being really strict with maintenance and really separately my carbs and fats. I know I would feel great at 125....I just think my body was starting to reject me no getting enough fats or carbs and that's why the scale didn't move for nearly two weeks. I know its hard when you get closer to goal. I suppose I would be satisfied with maintaining at 130 too. We will just have to see. How is everyone else doing today? THe weather here is supposed to be 66 but snowy all weekend. Spring teasers.
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:06 PM   #381
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Maile, thanks for the article. Great stuff to think about.

The 80/20 rule is going to be worth experimenting with. My twisted logic is that I'm doing that, just all 3 meals are in one day.

The daily exercise habit noted in the database--At first I wondered if it affected mood as much as metabolism. Then I read it reduces insulin (but Ishbel already knew that!). So if the maintainers in the database are "recovered" insulin resistant individuals, then exercising daily would be very important especially on days where sugars, even natural food inherent ones, are higher.

I'm pretty sure the belly pooge is from sugar. I'll look at that further.

When I saw my coach Wednesday as I have another slightly up week during this p4 startup, she said her sister (that introduced her to IP) maintains on 15g of sugar a day. She only counts sugar grams, not calories. That could not be done vegetarian unless fat grams were incredibly high. I had eaten a serving of pineapple with dinner which I think impacted the scale, but it really got me to thinking.

Which is my segue to eating cake for breakfast on fun day. Yep, I have done that in the past, too. Sometimes that really does work better, until that "it's only once a week better get the "x" eaten" mentality kicks in.

For all my complaining about fun day, it really does work to a certain extent. I did catch my up pounds "in time" and am starting to deal with it so there isn't a next time up quite as high. Also, I may be at that lowest attainable weight rather than maintainable weight, which is what I am considering, too. Kind of figuring out where to set that top number and what it needs to go down to before I rejoin my regularly scheduled eating program.
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194.4/120 started IP 11.2.11, P4 117.3-120.3, officially from Aug 2012 to Jan 2013
home scale: 114 to 126, 19% to 30%BF
2014 reset: Ja22: 124.2/27.1%; Ja29: 121/25.9%; Fe5: 119.6/25.3%; p2...Fe12: 117.5/24.5%; p3...Fe19: 116.8/24.1%; p4...117.8/24.5%
Goal #1: correct sucralose deficiency (minimize sugar cravings)
Goal #2: lower the bodyfat to reflect time spent at the gym

Last edited by infoplease : 03-12-2014 at 02:08 AM.
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:26 PM   #382
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info I hear you on the attainable versus maintainable weight thing. It does seem that our bodies, due to a variety of reasons, have a set point that even if you go past it still wants to creep back up to. Interesting stuff to consider and play with in the coming weeks of phase 3 then to maintenance. I may have said this before but my coach told me a long time ago that despite the IP guidelines, that she does not like the idea of carbs at all in the evening. She suggests having them with bfast and lunch and then eating a phase 1 dinner each night as she believes it causes weight gain and we don't need the sugars before bed. She has a BS in nutrition so she does have some knowledge to bring to the IP diet that can be relevant beyond what they prescribe.

Can you tell me a bit more about the exercise thing. I was never insulin resistant that I know of...don't think I was anyway but do see the value in moderate activity.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:06 PM   #383
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canadjineh; thank-you for the great exercise suggestions! Water is a great idea.

eandc: WOW, congratulations! I hope you are celebrating your success bigtime (and enjoying the carbs). Sounds like you listened to your body and made a wise decision. Coming off of the black and white P1 can feel jolting to learn that they don't prescribe an ideal weight. It's fun to figure it all out, esp. with the great support from 3FC. Interesting about not eating carbs for the evening meal. Keep us posted how it's going.

infoplease,I like the idea of counting just sugar grams--it helps get over the lingering P1 feeling "dare I eat some butternut squash?" It sounds like you are on top of things in your transition.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:17 AM   #384
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Mars I definitely enjoyed my bfast yesterday. It was good. I had a half an English muffin, half of a cup of greek yogurt with 1 cup blackberries and 1\4 cup museli, a string cheese and an egg. Stepped on the scale this morning and I was still at 131 so that's good news. I am just really hoping that it stays there and doesn't go up. I think I will panic if it does. Going skiing tomorrow and plan on just taking it easy the rest of the weekend. Another cold storm is moving in (ughhhh, stop already!) I hope everyone has a great day.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:02 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by eandc2006 View Post
Mars I definitely enjoyed my bfast yesterday. It was good. I had a half an English muffin, half of a cup of greek yogurt with 1 cup blackberries and 1\4 cup museli, a string cheese and an egg. Stepped on the scale this morning and I was still at 131 so that's good news. I am just really hoping that it stays there and doesn't go up. I think I will panic if it does. Going skiing tomorrow and plan on just taking it easy the rest of the weekend. Another cold storm is moving in (ughhhh, stop already!) I hope everyone has a great day.
eandc: Have a great weekend! It's natural to have anxiety after the P1 journey. The scale is information at this point to see what effect phasing off will have. Suggest trying not to react too much each day by tweaking anything--as you know there are daily fluctuations at the scale that do not correlate 1 to 1 with the previous day's eating.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:25 PM   #386
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Hi all: I'm new to this thread. Last day of phase 3 is today. Moving into phase 4/maintenance... I've been lurking here a while and appreciate all I've been able to soak in.

I know this phase can be more individual than the others but does anyone have any advice for the c/f/p % and total calories I may want to input, at least as a starting place, in MyFitnessPal?

Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:45 PM   #387
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It's going to depend on how carb sensitive you are.
You can try 30% protein/40% carbs/ 30% fat to start, follow the p4 rules and see how close that reflects where you end up.
Second choice is keeping them all kind of even 33/33/34.
Third way is to think about how many carb grams you can handle (100g? 125g? 150g?) fix that then adjust the protein and fat grams based on your total calories.
Make sense?
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194.4/120 started IP 11.2.11, P4 117.3-120.3, officially from Aug 2012 to Jan 2013
home scale: 114 to 126, 19% to 30%BF
2014 reset: Ja22: 124.2/27.1%; Ja29: 121/25.9%; Fe5: 119.6/25.3%; p2...Fe12: 117.5/24.5%; p3...Fe19: 116.8/24.1%; p4...117.8/24.5%
Goal #1: correct sucralose deficiency (minimize sugar cravings)
Goal #2: lower the bodyfat to reflect time spent at the gym
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:09 AM   #388
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Phase 3 question for you maintainers:

Not more than 30 grams carbs from bread, cereal, etc.
Not more than 20 grams carbs from fruit.
At least 25 grams of protein from any source.
Not more than 120 calories from dairy.
Not more than 15 grams fat total.

Are the carb totals in these rules net carbs (total # of carbs - fibre) or the total carb grams?

Thanks!
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:09 AM   #389
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I was told net carbs. That is what I use. Enjoy your P3 meals! I love the breakfasts.

Mars: That was good advice. There are definitely daily fluctuations on that scale! I am glad you liked the article. It sounds like you are making good moderate choices in maintenance.

Eandc: I enjoy my fruit breakfasts. I do agree with you that 5 pounds can make a difference in how your clothes fit. You are wise to give yourself some leeway. I hope you enjoy your skiing and that it gets warmer. I often save my carbs for the morning. That was interesting about your coach's advice.

Canadadjineh: I also love aged cheese. I definitely use it as a treat as it is so good. I hope you enjoy your anniversary celebration!


Infoplease: I think you are right..The Previously overweight people on the Registry most likely are recovered insulin resistant people. It seems like you are figuring out your fun days so that the up pounds are lowered. I have not had cake for breakfast..but have eaten pizza or lasagna. I figure ..get those carbs in early. 15 gm of sugar seems low. I may have to start tracking my sugar. I do think that cutting out wine, helps me on losing up pounds.and it does have sugar.

Lately I have been thinking about the National Weight Control Registry and its statistics that only 50 percent of the people who have maintained for two years, keep the weight off. This of course is better than the 5 percent in the first year who keep the weight off. It is not until the 5th year of maintenance that 80% keep off the weight.

Here is information that I posted about Beck and attainable verses achievable weight. One thing she comments is that we age, our metabolisms slow down and we burn less calories. Not written by me.

Here is Judith Beck’s take (from her blog (I also highly recommend, you can get her free newsletter there) at www.beckdietsolution.co
m/diet-solution-blog/ ):
“[the] concept of ‘ideal weight’ – it’s the weight that you get down to when you’re eating and exercising in a healthy way that you can maintain. Now this weight may not the weight of your thinnest friend, it may not be the weight you were at in college, and it almost definitely isn’t the weight of the celebrities we see on television. In our minds, your ideal weight is the weight that you can get down to and stay at, not the weight that you can get down to, then gain some weight back, then work on losing it again, then gaining it back again. We just don’t believe that it’s worth getting down to a weight that you ultimately can’t maintain (by either exercising or eating in a way that is not sustainable) because you’ll just gain it back and then feel very discouraged.”

My note:

This is exactly what I’ve been experiencing. Though I can get to 120s when I’m obsessively focused on it, it’s not sustainable because it takes too much restriction.

She then goes on to say, “It’s also important to know that most people, when they lose weight, get down to what we call their lowest achievable weight. However, most people don’t stay there! They eventually end up relaxing their habits just a bit and gaining a few pounds back and end up leveling off at we call their lowest maintainable weight. Their lowest achievable weight is probably not their lowest maintainable weight because it would require intense focus on their eating and exercise.”

Finally Beck gives very practical ways to learn to accept ourselves at this lowest maintainable weight, which for me, isn’t the weight I’ve been telling myself I should weigh:

She says, “… you [don’t] have to be at all unhappy with where you are now. In fact, you should be extremely proud of yourself for the weight you did lose and for all of the hard work and dedication you put into it. Instead of focusing on the 10 pounds you didn’t lose, think instead about all of the weight you did lose. Even if you’re not quite at the weight you wanted to get down to starting out, think about…Do you feel better about yourself?...”

She continues, “You can also ask yourself: How would my life really be different if I lost another 10 pounds? Would the differences be so significant? Is it possible that I’m already experiencing many of the things I wanted to achieve, even though the number on the scale isn’t what I initially had in mind? It sounds like it may be worth working on changing your concept of your own ideal weight, feeling proud about where you are, and move forward appreciating all the wonderful changes that have come about as a result of losing weight."



If you have reached a weight plateau:

Regarding your food plan, ask yourself:
Do I want to eat less?
Will I get enough satisfaction if I eat less?
Will eating less be healthy and fit into my lifestyle?
Could I live with this food plan comfortably for the long term?

Regarding your exercise plan, ask yourself:
Do I really want to increase the frequency, duration and intensity of my exercise?
Will I have enough time and energy to devote to more exercise?
Will exercising more be healthy for me? Or will I be overdoing it?
Will I easily be able to keep up an increased level of exercise for the long term?

What if your lowest maintainable weight is HIGHER than the weight you wish to achieve? "But I want to be thinner" thinking....

Continue to enrich your life...in ways other than losing weight.

Focus on the parts of your body that please you the most.

Say to yourself "oh well"....

Focus on how you've improved.

Change your comparison.

Prepare yourself mentally before you weigh yourself.

Accept compliments from others.

Act "as if."

"The richer your life, the less you'll focus on your weight."
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Last edited by Maile : 03-09-2014 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:04 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by infoplease View Post
It's going to depend on how carb sensitive you are.
You can try 30% protein/40% carbs/ 30% fat to start, follow the p4 rules and see how close that reflects where you end up.
Second choice is keeping them all kind of even 33/33/34.
Third way is to think about how many carb grams you can handle (100g? 125g? 150g?) fix that then adjust the protein and fat grams based on your total calories.
Make sense?
Thanks. This is helpful. I have to admit, I thought I'd be thrilled to add things back into my diet but I'm a little daunted by the choices and less strict boundaries. I'm sure it takes some getting used to
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