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-   -   Why do you gain back so fast? (http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/ideal-protein-diet/289519-why-do-you-gain-back-so-fast.html)

itzroxy814 11-06-2013 09:48 PM

Why do you gain back so fast?
 
I've been really curious about this... also kind of nervous. I keep hearing how when you stop this diet, you gain back A LOT and fast. Some have said "Well yeah, if you stop eating healthy and start your old habits, it will come back". But I remember someone saying they stopped and went to Weight Watchers, so still eating healthy, just not low cal/fat/carb.

What is the difference in stopping IP and stopping any other diet that makes the weight come back on so fast? I do intend to go through all phases, but it terrifies me that I may lose weight and a bad day or week could royally screw me and set me back so much.

JohnP 11-06-2013 10:24 PM

First, there is a difference between fat loss/gain and weight loss/gain. So if you are on a very low carb diet and you start eating carbs you will gain weight as your body increases it's glycogen stores. For a large person this can represent 5 lbs or more. (For me it's about 8 lbs) This is not a gain in fat. Dispite what the IP diet says about insulin and ketosis fat loss/gain is always going to be an equation of energy/calories.

Second, when you're on a very low calorie diet, like IP, eating more food means you have more digesting and greater waste. Again, depending on the size of the person this can be 2-4 lbs. Also a gain in weight only, not fat.

Third, if you fall off the wagon and start eating you're very likely going to increase your sodium intake massively which results in more water retention. Nothing to do with fat gain. Some people this can be a very large contributor to weight gain.

As for actual fat gain - it is a matter of calories.

itzroxy814 11-06-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnP (Post 4878573)
First, there is a difference between fat loss/gain and weight loss/gain. So if you are on a very low carb diet and you start eating carbs you will gain weight as your body increases it's glycogen stores. For a large person this can represent 5 lbs or more. (For me it's about 8 lbs) This is not a gain in fat. Dispite what the IP diet says about insulin and ketosis fat loss/gain is always going to be an equation of energy/calories.

Second, when you're on a very low calorie diet, like IP, eating more food means you have more digesting and greater waste. Again, depending on the size of the person this can be 2-4 lbs. Also a gain in weight only, not fat.

Third, if you fall off the wagon and start eating you're very likely going to increase your sodium intake massively which results in more water retention. Nothing to do with fat gain. Some people this can be a very large contributor to weight gain.

As for actual fat gain - it is a matter of calories.

I never would have thought of all that, thank you!

Avalon1957 11-07-2013 06:21 AM

JohnP, brought up some excellent points. Thanks John!

I have a few more to add:

1. your BMR (basal metabolic rate) -- that is, the number of calories your body burns at rest is much higher if you are fatter. In other words, it takes more energy for your body to pump blood/fluids and to generally run a 300 pound body vs. a 150 pound body. So if you were used to eating x amount of food to maintain a 300 pound weight ... after you lose 100+ pounds ... if you go back to your eating habits that you had, when you weighed 300 pounds, you will gain weight back quickly as your body is now getting MORE of an excess in calories.

2. I think that many of us "serial dieters" who are "chronically fat" have bad food addictions; and when we "fall off the wagon" (end our diets) and start up with the whole bad food vicious cycle (that bad food, creates cravings for more bad food) ... then the bad feelings and feelings of failure when we start watching our weight climb often begets more eating (as an escape from our feelings of failure) ... so we get into a negative feedback loop. This is the major cause of yo-yo dieting and long term yo-yo weight charts (IMHO). Like my personal 40 year weight chart (talk about a classic yo-yo dieter, ME) ... (Note that only that last 60 pound "downward stroke" over the past 3 months, is the IP Diet ... all other downward strokes in my 40 yr weight chart were other various and assorted diets)



The only way to break the yo-yo cycle is to actually change the way you eat "normally" ... that is, don't allow yourself to ever "go off the diet" completely. So keep eating the 4 cups of steamed broccoli a day, keep eating the 8 oz of lean protein, supplement with a good quality protein powder (not necessarily IP), drink lots of water, and exercise. Avoid high carb foods, avoid fast food and sugars. I think that only with these "lifestyle changes" in the way we eat, do us "predisposed fat people" have any hope of keeping the weight off after a long diet.



The final important thing is to always think of plateaus and maintaining a lower weight a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure" ... sometimes it's impossible for us to get our bodies to get down to the weight that we "think" we "should be" ... but at even 75% or 50% or even 25% of goal, we see HUGE health benefits. so always try to maintain your "weight loss ground" and not get caught in one of those bad negative feedback loops where we gain all the weight (that we just lost) back in what seems like a flash (but is usually similar in timeframe to the time it took for you to lose it).

I personally have been one of these yo-yo dieters for the past 20+ years, where my weight is going either straight up or straight down (and hardly ever sideways, for any length of time). And I finally "saw the light" this year, that there are tremendous benefits to even having partial success and losing some of the weight that we want -- so even a partial success is a great thing IF we a committed and motivated/dedicated to keep it off (which sometimes can be harder than losing it in the first place).

So even with me still 70+ pounds overweight (not even 1/2 way to my goal), I am seeing HUGE health benefits:

- My blood pressure is 105/60 (it was 140/85 early this summer)
- My A1C is 5.5 (it was 10.0 in 2008)
- My blood sugar range is 90-120 (it was 120-180 early this summer)
- My cholesterol is in the 100's (it was 240 earlier this year)
- I have no back pain at all ... zero ... nada ... actually I dont have ANY PAIN, ANYWHERE!
- My feet don't hurt, even when I wear high heels
- I have no lung congestion (no fluid in the lungs) after I eat (this can be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have no foot and/or ankle swelling and I lost 1/2 a shoe size (foot swelling can also be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have a waistline (an hourglass figure) and look 100x better
- I dont take any prescription pills other than thyroxin for low thyroid (a condition i've had since 1990)

So even if all weight loss stopped for me tomorrow ... if I can just maintain this weightloss that I have achieved over the past 3+ months ... and stay at the level I am now ... it's a medical success. It's really important to change the way we all think about ourselves and our dieting and health.

Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were typically followed by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

The other thing is steamed frozen organic broccoli florets and lean chicken/turkey are my new BFFs (best friends forever)! This is NOT JUST A TEMPORARY DIET that I am on now, but the start of a new way of eating for the rest of my life.

M0vingon 11-07-2013 08:02 AM

:bravo:Avalon, this s an AMAZING post. Thank you!

Ruth Ann 11-07-2013 09:51 AM

Excellent posts John and Avalon! I know sometimes I get so invested in that scale number that I forget it's not the be all and end all of getting healthy and learning to eat right for the rest of my life. My blood pressure, cholesterol levels, blood sugar levels, etc are benefiting, my overall energy is better, etc., etc. These are all just as important as the number on the scale.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalon1957 (Post 4878664)
Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were following by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

What a great way to think of plateaus and slower losses. I think you are totally right that thinking of them as "failures" just sets us up for more failure. Considering them "maintenance successes" is a much better mindset. Positive thinking about weight loss is a powerful tool in our "getting healthy" arsenal!

GettinHealthyNow 11-07-2013 10:24 AM

Thanks for posting those notes, John & Avalon. You're so right that this weight loss is about much more than getting into smaller clothes. That's just a pleasant after-effect in my mind. The kick in the a** that I needed to get on this program was when my blood pressure spiked this past summer. All those years of feeling huge and uncomfortable in my skin weren't enough to make me stop the bad eating - it was the fear of the road that high blood pressure was leading me down.

Kathy

brelo 11-07-2013 11:11 AM

Avalon, loved your post. Got a question: could you elaborate on the part about the congestion in your lungs after eating? How was that related? Was it mainly salty food? If you have early signs of CHF does that go away after a weight loss?

Okay, that was more than a question and kind of big questions, too.

AND congrats on your great lab numbers! Mine are better too. Big changes are happening on the inside as well as the outside.

IanG 11-07-2013 11:16 AM

I don't do IP.

But diet gets the weight off. Exercise keeps it off.

If you could work out while on IP it would be great training for maintenance.

I would be in trouble by now if it were not for my daily runs and weight training.

SuzieV 11-07-2013 11:25 AM

Hopefully people will read this thread...lots of good info from John & Avalon. I want to jump on the health benefits band wagon! I'm the baby of the family and my kick in the a$$ was two siblings with diabetes and three with high BP & cholesterol. I did not want to travel their path. I make sure to think of their weight related health issues daily as my motivation to MAINTAIN and lose a bit more.

safetylady 11-07-2013 12:02 PM

Great thread, lots of good information. Thanks

exesparz 11-07-2013 12:02 PM

My doctor/coach also says that when you stop eating healthy your body stops being in ketosis and stops burning fat from the body.

learning to fly 11-07-2013 12:23 PM

Wow, what amazing 2 posts! This should go into the sticky ... don't know who to contact for that...

EDIT: d-oh! I just added a post to the first sticky with the link for this thread.

Avalon1957 11-07-2013 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brelo (Post 4878864)
Avalon, loved your post. Got a question: could you elaborate on the part about the congestion in your lungs after eating? How was that related? Was it mainly salty food? If you have early signs of CHF does that go away after a weight loss? Okay, that was more than a question and kind of big questions, too. AND congrats on your great lab numbers! Mine are better too. Big changes are happening on the inside as well as the outside.

Hello Brelo, Some of this might have been paranoia about congestive heart failure (CHF) since that killed my dad at age 80. My heart was definitely struggling at 320 to 340 pounds and it could no longer clear excess water from my body

Here is some good info on CHF from WebMD ...
"Congestive heart failure does not mean the heart has stopped working. Rather, it means that the heart's pumping power is weaker than normal. With heart failure, blood moves through the heart and body at a slower rate, and pressure in the heart increases. As a result, the heart cannot pump enough oxygen and nutrients to meet the body's needs. The chambers of the heart may respond by stretching to hold more blood to pump through the body or by becoming stiff and thickened. This helps to keep the blood moving, but the heart muscle walls may eventually weaken and become unable to pump as efficiently. As a result, the kidneys may respond by causing the body to retain fluid (water) and salt. If fluid builds up in the arms, legs, ankles, feet, lungs, or other organs, the body becomes congested, and congestive heart failure is the term used to describe the condition."

My CHF symptoms were due to me being too darned FAT and not from a weakened heart or some sort of structural issue ... and when i got my weight back into the 200's all of these CHF symptoms disappeared completely. Clearly 320 (or thereabouts) is a very critical weight level for my body where it goes from muddle-ing through, to actually starting to break down and die.

In terms of congestion in my lungs after a meal, it didn't really matter what I ate (it would happen even after broccoli and chicken when was above 320 pounds). And I found that when I would eat anything I was always clearing my lungs of water/fluid for about 30 to 45 minutes afterwards. (It feels a bit like lung congestion you might have after a bad flu). At that weight my body really starts towards some sort of really noticeable death spiral. I think what I have found is my own personal "death zone" which exists right around 320 pounds (for me) ... just like climbers on high mountains enter the death zone above 24,000 feet, a height above which their body starts to die.

Funny now at 266 (60 pounds less than where I was in late July) I feel GREAT ... I don't have any noticeable heart issues at all ... no excess swelling, no lung congestion, and my blood pressure also dropped to a nice low level. I honestly feel so healthy now that I think I could go run track if I wanted to.

So just like I am no longer diabetic at this lower weight, I no longer have any heart issues at all at this lower weight. Now this is not saying that I won't EVER ... but for now, at this lower weight, I am as healthy as I was at 30; and my doctor and my bloodwork confirm that.

CrystalWolf 11-07-2013 03:01 PM

This has been interesting reading,thank you to all who have shared their insights. Some of the veterans around 3FC recommended reading the book Refuse to Regain, I am waiting on my copy that I ordered on Amazon. In the meantime I have been reading the author's blog, it is really enlightening to me. She recently posted something that might be worth the read for anyone interested.
http://www.refusetoregain.com/genera...ce-strategies/

I am working on finding my own carb sensitivity level. Of course your mileage may vary, but I have accepted that I will need to watch my carbs forever.


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