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The cheating hierarchy

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Old 10-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 2much2do View Post
1. Extra unrestricted protein packet
2. Off plan vegetables – avocado, artichoke hearts, carrots
3. Nuts
4. Regular salad dressing – Ranch, blue cheese, ceasar
5. Fat free dairy
6. Fatty meat – ribeye, strip, NY steak
7. Fatty dairy – cheese, sour cream, cream cheese
8. Extra restricted IP bar
9. Complex carbs – brown rice, potatoes, oat meal, corn, beans
10. Sweet sauces – barbecue, teriyaki
11. Simple carbs – white bread, white rice, pasta
12. Sugar + Fat – doughnuts, French fries, ice cream

I have to eat at catered events quite often, so keep in mind that I'm usually trying to pick things out of meals that have already been prepared. That's my context.

I listed the unrestricted packet first. I still exercise (cardio only), so my coach has indicated that if I get hungry, I can do an extra packet. So that is my first fallback. I've only had to do it twice. But usually if I get hungry, it's because I worked out too long or too hard.

I put the off plan vegetables second - mainly because the quantities are usually really small. When I order the steamed vegetables at Rumbi's, they can't take the carrots out. So I end up having to pick out shredded carrots. I never can get every last one. But I figure I'm better off eating a few shreds of carrots than ordering anything else on the menu. I've had the same thing happen with salads that show up and have artichoke hearts in them. Sometimes they hide in the lettuce and it's hard to pick them all out.

Nuts are a toss up. My coach tells me I can eat a few almonds or pistachios and not affect my ketosis. So if those are in a salad, I try to avoid them, but I don't feel like I have to be fanatical about it.

I've only had regular salad dressing once - when I ran out of dressing packets. I order it on the side and just dip a little lettuce in it to lubricate my salad. I think it's better to have the lettuce and vegetables and use a little dressing than to go all day without eating.

I put carb + sugar at the very bottom. I just don't think there is a worse cheat than that. Some of you have put the sauces at the bottom, but those are usually in small enough quantities that they wouldn't give you overwhelming cravings the next day. I know if I ate a bunch of cookies or other desserts, I would have great difficulty saying no to such things the next day.

Princess Peacock - please don't respond to any more of my posts. I don't come here to be insulted and misrepresented. I come here to support and be supported. Your posts are not helpful to me. Thanks!
2much2do - I think (I could be wrong, it happens) that what you are really asking is "if you're in a situation where you can't eat what you planned, what is going to be the least damaging to your progress."

Salad - you can eat around the non-allowed veggies as best you can and skip the dressing. Chicken with cheese melted on it you can scrape the cheese off and just eat the chicken. In a pinch you can kind of push the food around on your plate and eat later. Food allergies is always a good excuse - I use the "I'm allergic to dairy and gluten" (which I figure is sort of true - it makes me break out in fat).

You can keep a bar or chocolate soy puffs in your purse and sneak out to the hall for a few bites to keep you going.

Quite honestly, at these catered affairs nobody really pays attention to what other people eat.

I think people here mostly were trying to point out that no cheat is good and with prior planning you can make most all situations work for you and stay on plan.

Congratulations on hitting your goal - that's a wonderful accomplishment you should feel good about!
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Last edited by Ruth Ann : 10-07-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:25 PM   #32
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2much2do- I completely agree with everything you post. I too have been at the brunt of some controversy for similar ideas (as you probably know!)

Why are we not allowed to have one thread on this forum where we can talk about this freely without backlash? I am respectful enough not to post in the 100% thread- as I am not 100% the majority of the time! And by not 100% I mean an extra egg...some shredded carrots in my bagged salads, etc. not chips, cake, etc. and this all ties back in with the heirarchy of foods as you say. I have also been quite happy with my progress as well- I went and weighed in and measured today after a month long "break" (i like to look it as maintenance practice!) I am only up 1.4lbs and still lost another 1.5in for a total of 21lbs and 28 inches since Aug 2! Whoooo! I have now started on the alternative P1 plan.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:46 PM   #33
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jmanovich - is there another forum somewhere where you don't have to be so politically correct all the time? I've seen some IP groups on Facebook, but I need to maintain my privacy. I know how helpful supportive forums can be - I had a really good one for stillbirth moms that helped me through some tough times. There are some good people on this forum, but I just haven't had a good experience here when I post. There's got to be something out there for us imperfect people!
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #34
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I haven't found anything comparable yet...something about this forum and the people here just keep me coming back

Yes, there will always be the few that you just can't get along with- just like in the offline world. Just trying to move past that all.

The problem with me finding a different place to chat is - I do follow IP so closely. I eat the food...I go to the clinic weekly...etc etc I just simply do small modifications. I find that I "jive" the best with these ladies as I have similar struggles and similar NSVs, etc. I just tend to keep the things I do "off plan" to myself now. Hey- if my ticker keeps going down, who knows any different!?

Each of us could come on here and preach 110% but what we do in our private lives away from this forum could be completely opposite. (not encouraging this by any means, just sayin!)

Sending to all...and to all a goodnight!
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:48 PM   #35
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There should be a 90% thread for those of us that don't pick the carrots out of bagged salad yet continue to lose weight.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:16 AM   #36
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So start a 90% thread and state at the onset what it is and to whom it will cater too. If you guys are respectfull of not posting on the 100% thread then I would think they would resipricate.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:17 AM   #37
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Or maybe an IP ish thread in the low carb section?
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Week5- 2.4 Week6-4.4 Week7- 1.8 Week8- 3.6
Week9- 1.0 Week10-3.2 Week11-1.0 Week12-0.8
Week13-3.0 Week14-2.8 Week15-0.6 Week16-1.6 Week17-1.2 Week18-2.6 Week19-0.8 Week20-0.6
Week21-1.6 Week22-2.4 Week23-1.4 Week24-0.6
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:30 AM   #38
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There should be a 90% thread for those of us that don't pick the carrots out of bagged salad yet continue to lose weight.
Lmao. Love the way you think!
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:32 AM   #39
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It makes me kind of sad to read all the responses on this thread. I agree with and have followed the whole idea of "this diet is different from other diets because it is a no-cheat diet". I understand the biochemistry involved that means we aren't "being tricky" or "getting away with something" like many of us have done on past (failed) diets.

I tried to comment once, quite a while ago, to tell people about the really truly unpleasant physical side effects I experienced when I put other people's feelings ahead of my own health and ate off-plan. I was also severely chastised, scolded, and felt attacked! And I wasn't even trying to justify the cheat or going on & on about what I ate , thus making others long for that thing. I honestly just wanted people to know about the physical negatives that happen in addition to the whole hassle of getting back into ketosis.

It's too bad this very supportive group can't look at what the writers are trying to convey instead of freaking out about it. I just started Phase 2 and had an incident today where I had to eat somewhere that I couldn't bring my IP goodies into. I ordered what I thought would be good - a veggies & turkey wrap without the wrap - and was halfway into it before realizing that there was mayo (or some kind of dressing) on it. Darn. I'd already tried to get the shredded (teeny tiny shreds) carrots off to one side, and then blam! Yuck!

I think your questions and ideas are REAL and practical. Please don't leave the forum based on this experience. As a previous poster mentioned, when there are no GOOD options, it's smart to know which are the least bad.

In life as in IP, people seem to think that we choose between clearly good or clearly bad options when more often than not, we have to choose between bad or worse and not simply good or bad.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:34 AM   #40
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We could make this that thread. the 90%...for all of us who eat the carrots in the bagged salads!!!!!!!!! And I thought I was the only one who did this on IP! haha!
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:39 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by smoothysmom View Post
It makes me kind of sad to read all the responses on this thread. I agree with and have followed the whole idea of "this diet is different from other diets because it is a no-cheat diet". I understand the biochemistry involved that means we aren't "being tricky" or "getting away with something" like many of us have done on past (failed) diets.

I tried to comment once, quite a while ago, to tell people about the really truly unpleasant physical side effects I experienced when I put other people's feelings ahead of my own health and ate off-plan. I was also severely chastised, scolded, and felt attacked! And I wasn't even trying to justify the cheat or going on & on about what I ate , thus making others long for that thing. I honestly just wanted people to know about the physical negatives that happen in addition to the whole hassle of getting back into ketosis.

It's too bad this very supportive group can't look at what the writers are trying to convey instead of freaking out about it. I just started Phase 2 and had an incident today where I had to eat somewhere that I couldn't bring my IP goodies into. I ordered what I thought would be good - a veggies & turkey wrap without the wrap - and was halfway into it before realizing that there was mayo (or some kind of dressing) on it. Darn. I'd already tried to get the shredded (teeny tiny shreds) carrots off to one side, and then blam! Yuck!

I think your questions and ideas are REAL and practical. Please don't leave the forum based on this experience. As a previous poster mentioned, when there are no GOOD options, it's smart to know which are the least bad.

In life as in IP, people seem to think that we choose between clearly good or clearly bad options when more often than not, we have to choose between bad or worse and not simply good or bad.

I'm not going to comment on this thread but....don't stop posting because of others. Everyone is free to post as they please. We all have opinions and we are all here for help! I too wanted to drop this day one as I didn't think I was posting correctly. I got a lot of support and took the advice I chose to! Some love controversy!

Do what's right for you!
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:44 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ72 View Post
Lmao. Love the way you think!
Thanks. I would start a 90% thread, but I don't have the energy to deal with how some may react to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothysmom View Post
It makes me kind of sad to read all the responses on this thread. I agree with and have followed the whole idea of "this diet is different from other diets because it is a no-cheat diet". I understand the biochemistry involved that means we aren't "being tricky" or "getting away with something" like many of us have done on past (failed) diets.

I tried to comment once, quite a while ago, to tell people about the really truly unpleasant physical side effects I experienced when I put other people's feelings ahead of my own health and ate off-plan. I was also severely chastised, scolded, and felt attacked! And I wasn't even trying to justify the cheat or going on & on about what I ate , thus making others long for that thing. I honestly just wanted people to know about the physical negatives that happen in addition to the whole hassle of getting back into ketosis.

It's too bad this very supportive group can't look at what the writers are trying to convey instead of freaking out about it. I just started Phase 2 and had an incident today where I had to eat somewhere that I couldn't bring my IP goodies into. I ordered what I thought would be good - a veggies & turkey wrap without the wrap - and was halfway into it before realizing that there was mayo (or some kind of dressing) on it. Darn. I'd already tried to get the shredded (teeny tiny shreds) carrots off to one side, and then blam! Yuck!

I think your questions and ideas are REAL and practical. Please don't leave the forum based on this experience. As a previous poster mentioned, when there are no GOOD options, it's smart to know which are the least bad.

In life as in IP, people seem to think that we choose between clearly good or clearly bad options when more often than not, we have to choose between bad or worse and not simply good or bad.
I'm sorry you felt attacked and weren't able to share your situation and have it well received. Sometimes it seems like some think you should go without when there are no 100% options available and wait until you can get to your nearest packet. I know, for me, this will not work. When I go without i feel deprived and am less likely to stick with it long term. If I can compromise and find the "smartest cheat" that will do the least damage to my progress, it helps me stick to the plan long term.
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Last edited by Meeshellee : 10-08-2013 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:28 AM   #43
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Default Holy panties in a wad!

I'm a 90%er and proud of it! I am thankful that the OP posted the "cheating hierarchy" because it matters to me as well. I ended up going rouge at a luncheon last week at an out-of-state conference. I wasn't about to make a fuss about the meal that was served in front of the other 10 professionals at my table. Maybe some on this thread would see making such a fuss as a badge of honor but it would have been unprofessional in the setting I was in. I am sure others, both professionals and SAHMS alike, have found themselves in similar settings, and having to make similar choices.

Sure, my weight loss stalled a bit as a result of that choice (the natural consequence) BUT I applied conscious thought to what I was eating, excluded the things I could (no bread) and did the best I could in the situation. I also got right back on plan immediately after and learning how to do THAT is the most important skill I think I will learn on my entire weight loss journey.

I am not in a race to some imaginary finish line. There IS no finish line and getting into that mode of thought is dangerous for long-term success (I know because I've done that one, more than once). Losing more weight a few weeks faster isn't more important to me than living my life in the present- I am living now (which means going out and being part of the world), not putting it off until I am thin and "worthy". That's MY choice and it's a totally legit one even if it's not what others might choose.

And now because the response to this thread has pissed me off, I will also go so far as to add that eating unconsciously is why we're all here. I personally think that the hard-core "don't-you-dare-ever-fall-short-of-the-mark-or-your-failing" is just to opposite side of the same food obsession coin that landed us in fatland in the first place. Switching the focus of the obsession doesn't cure it- the same thought processes are still at work. I don't think I should be ruled by a preoccupation with cheesecake or an obsession for foil packets.

I applaud the poster for trying to apply the IP concepts beyond the foil-wrapped packets to the world that some of us live in. I am sure making conscious food choices and weighing the potential cost/value of the choices will help her in the maintenance phase that I hope to reach myself- EVENTUALLY.

I love the idea of a 90% thread! We're all on a different path and the RIGHT way to do it is what works for the individual involved. Some will get there through the relentless pursuit of perfection and others of us will get there the 90% route- if a little slower. To each his own!
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:39 AM   #44
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bindersbee, your comments on the food obsession piece are right on target, in my opinion.
I agree with 2much2do's hierarchy.

As most have said, the goal is 100% and to be focused on being prepared to stay 100% to the greatest extent possible.

My view of p1 from maintenance is that you do need to look at it as the first step to how you eat from now on. Part of that is always going to be exactly how you will handle social/work food situations, both the kinds you can "control"-- thru eating before, talking to the hostess, bringing your own food--and those you can't.

Yes, the natural consequence of not following the plan (p1, p2, p3 or p4) will always be the effect on your weight. But stressing out over what to do/what you did also has the natural consequence of impacting your weight. 2much2do's heirarchy is her fallback, with her first choice being staying 100%, so that she doesn't have to stress out each time she is placed in the situation.

Each of us came to need IP for different reasons around our relationship with food. In many ways IP is "one size fits all". I know my coach worked very hard with me to make tiny modifications (doing IP as a vegetarian likely made my carbs more than typical, adding non-restricteds with exercise, using two non-restricted to replace protein at dinner) to help me stay as close to 100% as possible.

IP brings us the diet, the science and what is going on in our bodies. Only thru these sorts of discussions can we sort thru what is going on in our heads.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:12 AM   #45
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I'd like to see where low sugar alcohol falls on this list for everyone. I have a vodka soda with the girls every once in a while. Maybe I would be five pounds thinner if I didn't. I'd rather have a drink
And the reality is if what someone says in this forum is going to make or break this program for you, you are doomed from the start. We only answer to ourselves. Not a coach and surly not anyone here. Criticizing the person who made or participated in this thread is bizarre.
Now, go have a drink!
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