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Phase 4 Macronutrient Requirements

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:05 PM   #1
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Default Phase 4 Macronutrient Requirements

So this information isn't anywhere to be found, but I NEED this info in order to prepare for maintenance. It kind of blows my mind that there is so little information available on how we are to maintain our weight for the rest of our lives, and how so much information is available for the 2 week Phase 3 breakfast. I need more info than the food separation thing.

So I checked out a few websites and found it interesting that while they all indicate that for my age (50 next month), height (exactly five feet) and weight (110 pounds) I need around 1300 - 1500 calories to maintain 110 pounds, the macronutrients really differ depending on where you look.

USDA website as well as the Canada Food Guide indicates:
200 grams carbs (50% of diet)
52 grams fat (30% of diet)
80 grams protein (20% of diet)

BodyBuilding.com says:
148 - 173 grams carbs
29 - 34 grams fat
115 - 134 grams protein

The carbs aren't that far off but the differences in fat and protein are huge! I guess I'll try to stay somewhere in between the two.

Last edited by slow2lose : 11-29-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by slow2lose View Post
So this information isn't anywhere to be found, but I NEED this info in order to prepare for maintenance. It kind of blows my mind that there is so little information available on how we are to maintain our weight for the rest of our lives, and how so much information is available for the 2 week Phase 3 breakfast. I need more info than the food separation thing.

So I checked out a few websites and found it interesting that while they all indicate that for my age (50 next month), height (exactly five feet) and weight (110 pounds) I need around 1300 - 1500 calories to maintain 110 pounds, the macronutrients really differ depending on where you look.

USDA website as well as the Canada Food Guide indicates:
200 grams carbs (50% of diet)
52 grams fat (30% of diet)
80 grams protein (20% of diet)

BodyBuilding.com says:
148 - 173 grams carbs
29 - 34 grams fat
115 - 134 grams protein

The carbs aren't that far off but the differences in fat and protein are huge! I guess I'll try to stay somewhere in between the two.
Wow, I'm no where near phase 2 let alone maintenance, but 50% of the diet being carbs seems quite high to me. Of course I know there is a difference between good carbs and bad carbs but that just seems high.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:19 PM   #3
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You may find a little more information here, it is Dr Tran's website (the creator of the IP diet). But from everything I have been reading, the POINT in maintenance is that you DON'T have to count macronutrients if you are eating according to the maintenance guidelines and just separating your fat/carb meals. I personally would prefer more strict guidelines, but I just don't think that's how maintenance is meant to work.

http://www.trantiendiet.com/site/spip.php?article253
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:37 PM   #4
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I agree with Scorbett. I've been doing some research myself...including reading the "Life After Phase 1" sticky, which I found REALLY helpful!! But separation of carbs from fats seems to be key.

I'll be meeting with my coach this afternoon, primarily to get me started with phase 3 (1st breakfast tomorrow!!!). I have actually put together some questions for her regarding phase 4. In doing so, I have outlined my typical day of what I ate before starting this program (and have noted my wonderful combos of fat & carbs!)...then I created a potential daily menu for phase 4. We'll see what she has to say (but I'm sure she'll be more focused on just getting me started correctly on phase 3!).

Another thing to consider in all of this is the intensity/length of time of your workouts. I plan to visit a site to see roughly the amount of calories I will burn with my hour/hour & 1/2 long strength training, plyo & ect...then compare that to my daily menu. From what I heard, everyone is different...what works for one person in phase 4 may not work for another...it's something that we will tweak in those first few weeks of phase 4.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by scorbett1103 View Post
You may find a little more information here, it is Dr Tran's website (the creator of the IP diet). But from everything I have been reading, the POINT in maintenance is that you DON'T have to count macronutrients if you are eating according to the maintenance guidelines and just separating your fat/carb meals. I personally would prefer more strict guidelines, but I just don't think that's how maintenance is meant to work.

http://www.trantiendiet.com/site/spip.php?article253
I don't want to do it for the rest of my life, but I think it would be good at first to have a basic idea of what you need in terms of calories, carbs, proteins and fats. Not to obsess on it, just to use as a guideline until you are comfortable and have an idea of what you need to do in order to maintain. I really believe IP should work on this a bit - esp. for us anal types that need a mathematical formula in order to live. Everything I do goes into a spreadsheet, that's just the way I am.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:49 PM   #6
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It's been a quiet day at work today and I've just immersed myself in this all day - I have spreadsheets and charts from Fitday all over my desk trying to get a handle on it. I've counted cals my whole life - it's a very hard habit to quit. Even on WW when I counted points, I would sometimes simultaneously use FitDay to count cals etc. - I've entered thousands of foods into it over the years.

I was actually quite depressed this morning when I read that link Scorbett posted. It sounded like food jail - so many restrictions!!!!!!!! I texted my Coach about it and she put me at ease. Even when I attended a presentation by the IP area rep last week he made it sound so much easier than that sheet did.

If I had to follow that guideline exactly I think I'd be doing one day on/one day off IP LOL. Way too much talk about WF products too - for me if I never see another one of those I'll be happy. I just want to buy normal supermarket foods and I don't want to make every single thing from scratch. I want a nice gourment BBQ sauce for my meat. I'm planning to throw away every WF item in my house as soon as I start Phase 1 - and I'm not carrying around those individual packets anymore either.

WF served me well on P1, but I always thought they were very artificial tasting - but on the other side of the coin I don't want to make my own salad dressing every day either - esp. since I'm not a big fan of oil/vinegar dressings to begin with.

My tastes really haven't changed that much since I started IP - there were certain things I was eating cause I had to, but knew I'd never eat them again as soon as I was done - zucchini, cucumber, cauliflower - I choked it down cause I had to, but I won't miss it when it's gone.

The only thing I've grown to love are turnip fries - those I will eat forever!!!

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Originally Posted by fitgirl2012 View Post
I agree with Scorbett. I've been doing some research myself...including reading the "Life After Phase 1" sticky, which I found REALLY helpful!! But separation of carbs from fats seems to be key.

I'll be meeting with my coach this afternoon, primarily to get me started with phase 3 (1st breakfast tomorrow!!!). I have actually put together some questions for her regarding phase 4. In doing so, I have outlined my typical day of what I ate before starting this program (and have noted my wonderful combos of fat & carbs!)...then I created a potential daily menu for phase 4. We'll see what she has to say (but I'm sure she'll be more focused on just getting me started correctly on phase 3!).

Another thing to consider in all of this is the intensity/length of time of your workouts. I plan to visit a site to see roughly the amount of calories I will burn with my hour/hour & 1/2 long strength training, plyo & ect...then compare that to my daily menu. From what I heard, everyone is different...what works for one person in phase 4 may not work for another...it's something that we will tweak in those first few weeks of phase 4.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #7
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your protein intake should be like your lean body mass. if you're 110 lbs, 115g protein is more than necessary.

Last edited by southern : 11-29-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by slow2lose View Post
So this information isn't anywhere to be found, but I NEED this info in order to prepare for maintenance. It kind of blows my mind that there is so little information available on how we are to maintain our weight for the rest of our lives, and how so much information is available for the 2 week Phase 3 breakfast. I need more info than the food separation thing.

So I checked out a few websites and found it interesting that while they all indicate that for my age (50 next month), height (exactly five feet) and weight (110 pounds) I need around 1300 - 1500 calories to maintain 110 pounds, the macronutrients really differ depending on where you look.

USDA website as well as the Canada Food Guide indicates:
200 grams carbs (50% of diet)
52 grams fat (30% of diet)
80 grams protein (20% of diet)

BodyBuilding.com says:
148 - 173 grams carbs
29 - 34 grams fat
115 - 134 grams protein

The carbs aren't that far off but the differences in fat and protein are huge! I guess I'll try to stay somewhere in between the two.
I can't speak for the USA but Canada Food Guide is 'recommended' - everyone is different, be sure to listen to your body when you enter into maintenance. It fluctuates and really I KNOW I could not eat 200 grams of carbs and stay at my weight. That being said I know people who've lost weight following the guide, I couldn't.

Don't let it feel like food jail, I was anxious at the beginning and it's settled (but flares up)...go with what your comfortable and count carbs and cals if you feel the 'need'. Not everyone does, some people go by how they feel in their clothes. Personally stretchy pants never did me any favors so I don't trust my pants but I track.

I'm hopeful that one day I won't need to track and I too can go by how I feel....in fact I know KNOW that one day I will no longer be as rigid as it will just be something I do everyday.
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Last edited by Ishbel : 11-29-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #9
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I've always been scared of Phase 4, and it's really starting to make me depressed now. For the 8 weeks that I was on Phase 1 I had to "white knuckle" it. It was the HARDEST thing I've ever done in my life, and every single day on it was a huge test of my will power. I've said before that the only reason I could live that way was because I knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel - I knew the day was coming that Phase 3 was coming (Phase 2 was awful for me, I never really did it - more meat - yuck), and I could live again.

I really didn't know what Phase 4 entailed, but now that I've seen the restrictions (food separation is not going to be easy) and other suggestions/requirements, I'm afraid I'm going to have to spend the rest of my life white-knuckling it too, and that is no way to live.

I've never enjoyed eating meat, I did it because I had to in order to do this program, but I'm worried about having to eat so much of it for the rest of my life - esp. when they say we still have to avoid sauces - that was what I was looking forward to.

I know we get the one cheat day, but I'm just not sure that day will do it for me. It's the other 5 days that worry me. I've also been a very spontaneous person - we have no kids and don't always plan every single day. Some days we just want to go out to eat instead of eating at home. I don't want to plan every meal - it's just not my lifestyle.

Anyway, I know that's a big rant, I just hope I can make it work.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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it's fat/carb separation...what restrictions...do you have a coach?

Ever thought of putting some of this in the actual 'maintenance' thread...you aren't the only one that has some anxiety over Phase 4 and there are a lot of 'new' maintainers just starting Phase 4.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:51 PM   #11
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it's fat/carb separation...what restrictions...do you have a coach?

Ever thought of putting some of this in the actual 'maintenance' thread...you aren't the only one that has some anxiety over Phase 4 and there are a lot of 'new' maintainers just starting Phase 4.
Oh yes, and a very very good one at that!! We talk all the time but sometimes I still like to come on here too.

Some of the things on the sheet posted that were a downer:

limiting things like fruit juice, nuts, bananas (they say only have a banana on a cheat day - to me a banana isn't a cheat - it's a life saver when I'm running around), no fruit on the bottom yogurt, what about a ham a cheese sandwich? Can't have cheese and bread - that would be a lunch staple for me, still no caramelized onions!!?? Shoot me now - and no supermarket mayos or salad dressings - they seem to suggest everything be home made. Not gonna happen for me. The McDonalds "On the Road Emergency" Meal was a joke - throw everything away that comes with it and just have the WF dressing is pretty much the crux of that scenario. Get a Quarter Pounder - no bread, ketchup, onions or relish. Like that just isn't reality. I'm not suggesting we all hit up McDonald's for a Quarter Pounder every day - but don't give it as a suggestion if you have to throw away everything that comes with it.

And forget about store bought mayo, ketchup, BBQ sauce, jams, syrups and salad dressings, unlesss they are WF. Forgot about living then for me.

Last edited by slow2lose : 11-29-2012 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #12
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Oh yes, and a very very good one at that!! We talk all the time but sometimes I still like to come on here too.

Some of the things on the sheet posted that were a downer:

limiting things like fruit juice, nuts, bananas (they say only have a banana on a cheat day - to me a banana isn't a cheat - it's a life saver when I'm running around), no fruit on the bottom yogurt, what about a ham a cheese sandwich? Can't have cheese and bread - that would be a lunch staple for me, still no caramelized onions!!?? Shoot me now - and no supermarket mayos or salad dressings - they seem to suggest everything be home made. Not gonna happen for me. The McDonalds "On the Road Emergency" Meal was a joke - throw everything away that comes with it and just have the WF dressing is pretty much the crux of that scenario. Get a Quarter Pounder - no bread, ketchup, onions or relish. Like that just isn't reality. I'm not suggesting we all hit up McDonald's for a Quarter Pounder every day - but don't give it as a suggestion if you have to throw away everything that comes with it.

And forget about store bought mayo, ketchup, BBQ sauce, jams, syrups and salad dressings, unlesss they are WF. Forgot about living then for me.

Ok, I have carmalized onions, I have store bought mayo, (keep low carb ketchup), jams, syrups, salad dressings etc. Full fat salad (Kraft thousand island) on my salad at lunch...whathuh? I have no sugar added ED Smith jam (bought at the store) in the morning with my KRAFT natural peanut butter. MacDonalds? ...again whathuh? I keep the WF at a minimum actually, that sounds like she's trying to sell you stuff???

Typically I don't eat out very much so I do keep everything made a home. I find banana's too carby for me so yes I keep that to a free day but I don't really 'prefer' banana's anyway. Add it, see what it does, it's a carb, so keep it as an afternoon snack (away from your fat meal)...I do keep nuts to the free day because I can't stop at just 100 calories, some people can.

I think you're over thinking this...keep the fats/carbs seperate...will that mean changing how you eat? You bet, I definately changed the way I eat compared to what I was 145 lbs ago.

Join the maintenance thread so you can have some 'buddies' and people to bounce ideas off of. Not everyone does maintenance the same way but generally people keep the carbs and the fat seperate. Which isn't a 'new' thing if you talk to people in the health industry.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by slow2lose View Post
Oh yes, and a very very good one at that!! We talk all the time but sometimes I still like to come on here too.

Some of the things on the sheet posted that were a downer:

limiting things like fruit juice, nuts, bananas (they say only have a banana on a cheat day - to me a banana isn't a cheat - it's a life saver when I'm running around), no fruit on the bottom yogurt, what about a ham a cheese sandwich? Can't have cheese and bread - that would be a lunch staple for me, still no caramelized onions!!?? Shoot me now - and no supermarket mayos or salad dressings - they seem to suggest everything be home made. Not gonna happen for me. The McDonalds "On the Road Emergency" Meal was a joke - throw everything away that comes with it and just have the WF dressing is pretty much the crux of that scenario. Get a Quarter Pounder - no bread, ketchup, onions or relish. Like that just isn't reality. I'm not suggesting we all hit up McDonald's for a Quarter Pounder every day - but don't give it as a suggestion if you have to throw away everything that comes with it.

And forget about store bought mayo, ketchup, BBQ sauce, jams, syrups and salad dressings, unlesss they are WF. Forgot about living then for me.
I thought it was interesting, too, reading the four page phase 4 sheet recommendations. Some of the things they suggested (the continued use of WF, the use of "fat free" products, etc.) seem pretty crazy to me. I don't really like the WF stuff and don't use any of it (too artificial tasting for me). Homemade mayo is zero carb, same with home made caesar (and some store bought brands of both - the full fat kind of course). Most of the "fat free" products on the market are loaded with sugar, carbs or other chemicals, so I don't intend to go back to eating those types of foods.

I lurk in the maintainers thread and I think you'll find that you don't have to be as rigid as the phase 4 sheet says, as long as you follow the main guidelines. For example, I see a lot of people on the maintainers thread who use nuts as a snack everyday, use full fat products, etc. You just have to experiment and figure out what works for you.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:24 PM   #14
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I lurk in the maintainers thread and I think you'll find that you don't have to be as rigid as the phase 4 sheet says, as long as you follow the main guidelines. For example, I see a lot of people on the maintainers thread who use nuts as a snack everyday, use full fat products, etc. You just have to experiment and figure out what works for you.
"LIKE"

I'm not sure what sheet everyone is talking about so I'm kinda feeling a little 'lost' with all the 'restrictions' but my Phase 4 sheet didn't say ALL of that.

That being said, I do remember reading "stay away from banana's" but I tested that theory on myself and I DO have to stay away where others don't.

Dumb it down and keep the fats and carbs separate and add slowly.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:27 PM   #15
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I think most of what you read in IP is aimed at those of us who have real metabolism issues and really have to watch everything we eat very carefully.
You really didn't have much to lose in the first place so your metabolism is likely working fine and will adjust easily to natural foods again.
We shorties do have to really exercise portion control as you are likely very used to doing.

Just add the things back gradually and monitor what happens. You may not have to be as restricted as many people have to be.
I did notice on the maintenance thread people who quickly add exercise back do really well so that is something to figure into the equation.

As for the carbs, many people think North Americans are so overweight because the US and Canadian guides put carbs first and it really should be lean protein first.

I think you can easily do well under 200 carbs without really noticing.
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