Quote:
Originally Posted by scorbett1103
kaplods, since you singled me out I wanted to respond.
I am in agreement with you that attacking and making people feel uncomfortable for asking questions on the forum is not OK. I can understand why folks get passionate about the program - it works, it's exciting, and for many it's a success after many "failures". Sometimes in the spirit of helpfulness, passion for what works can be overpowering. But yes, we still need to be respectful of other's questions, and ultimately their decisions one way or the other.
My concern with John's postings have been that in this and other threads, he is not asking questions. Perhaps it is not the intention, but his posts come across as telling people what THEY know is wrong and in some cases using language that seems a bit belittling. I sincerely hope that he is suffering from the same passion - something he knows that works based on his own learning and in the spirit of helpfulness may come across as overzealous. Over the internet it's very hard to discern tone and intent.
I would never want to be guilty of making visitors to this forum feel uncomfortable, and if that has happened, then I am sorry for my part in it.
I was neither singling you out, nor specifically defending John. My post was not based on any one person or even one dozen people's posts, nor posts aimed at one person. If they were, I would simply use the ignore feature of this website, to ignore those posters most likely to be unusually critical. I've done so in other forums on 3FC, but that hasn't been a practical solution on the IP forums.
I have to say the IP threads are getting much more supportive, which is why I've been posting more, and hopefully soon will get over my gun-shy attitude towards IP. Most of you know I'm not shy anywhere else, but I imagine it will just take some time - and more positive experiences.
For a while (and it was quite a while back) whenever I did post in IP forums, no matter how I tried to phrase my posts, it seemed that someone would suggest or say outright that I wasn't really welcome or had no right to comment because I didn't really belong here.
As to John specifically I will comment, though I'm not sure whether John will see my commentary as defending him, or attacking him, and so I'll just say it's intended as neither - it's meant only to describe John as I see him.
John does sometimes come off as a know-it-all for two reasons.
One, he knows his sh*t. People who know a lot, come off as a know-it-all because they may not know it all, but they know so much that it can come across that way.
Two, and probably the most importantly, he doesn't apologize for what he knows, and he doesn't pretend to not know what he knows or pretend to agree with an opinion he disagrees with.
Personally I don't think two is a function of John being a jerk, it's a function of him being male. Not that his communication style is that of all men, but that it is one common to men (and many women too).
He doesn't say "you might be wrong," when he believes you're wrong, he says "you're wrong," and then tells you why he thinks so.
But you know what... if you can prove him wrong, he will not only admit it, he'll thank you for the education (I've been so thanked by him, and the first time it threw me for a loop).
John sometimes irritates me, but usually in the best of ways. He's one of the few people on 3FC willing to tell me, "Colleen, you're absolutely wrong," and he explains why he thinks so. When I've went to the science to prove MY point, I usually have to admit "John, you're right I was wrong."
And when I was able to prove my point, he admitted he was wrong as well.
I like John a lot. He says what he believes and he's confident in his opinions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Ironically he and I often say exactly the same thing in a post, and commenters will thank me and boo John. Why, because I used more of the "polite words," in sharing my opinion.
To be honest, sometimes I wish I didn't have to say all the polite words... pretending that what I know to be true is only my opinion not established scientific fact, pretending that I understand why people have strange ideas about how the body works, trying to be sweet to people who accuse me and others of being trolls simply because we stated an opinion...
I know that to get my opinion heard, I have to be very nice about it, even when I don't feel that I'm being treated with the same respect. Regardless of what you think of John, he doesn't expect to receive any less than he gives. If you can dish it out, he can take it. So if you think he's a jerk, call him a jerk. If you think he's wrong then tell him he's wrong and why (and he might just surprise you and agree)...
I've never known John to intentionally try to hurt anyone. If he does so, it's because he expects everyone to be as science-driven as he is, and to be as thick skinned as he is. And since he doesn't believe that anyone telling him "you're wrong" is being disrespectful, it doesn't dawn on him that telling someone else "you're wrong" would offend anyone.
Maybe I've just had a lot more experience with people who "tell it like it is" (in their opinion) without couching it in phrases like "in my opinion." I know it's their opinion, I don't have to hear them say it, to know that. I know it's their opinion by virtue of it coming out of their mouths or fingertips.
It may seem strange that I don't see John's posts as judgmental, considering I posted about the judgemental attitudes I've seen on the IP forum, but maybe because I'm reading what John is saying and not trying to interpret what he is saying. I don't assume he has any ill-intent, so I don't see any.
Of course, I live with a man who is more frustrating than John by about 1,000 fold. My husband has virtually no filter and says exactly what he thinks even if it sounds "horrible" to everyone else. He never even considers how it could be interpreted negatively, because he expects people, especially his friends and family to understand him and trust him enough to assume his intentions are not evil. He naively expects the same of strangers.
He doesn't understand why people don't always say exactly what they mean in the shortest most direct way possible. When I try to speak "politely" in the more traditional female-style to him, it drives him bonkers, because he wants me to get directly to the point, and stop beating around the bush, and why won't I say what I mean?
I tend to assume that John is simply speaking typical American male-english. Unfortunatley there is no male-to-female dictionary (although I shouldn't say that, there probably is, and I bet it's funny as all get out).