[JohnP]

Originally Posted by fourstubbs

If I could vote for the best post in a thread, THIS WOULD BE IT. It is plain and simple. No frills. That is what this plan is about and I agree with this post to a tee.

I agree. A very excellent post. Full of common sense but like my grandaddy used to tell me ... common sense ain't common

[foreveryoung]

Originally Posted by JohnP

I agree. A very excellent post. Full of common sense but like my grandaddy used to tell me ... common sense ain't common

Common sense ain't common lol I totally agree...

[Bellamack]

Agree with Mammoth357!

and Wuv will tell you that if her mother wasn't paying for her weight loss, she could not afford it.

They could sell this for alot less than they do. It is a secondary income to a clinic of some sort, usually chiropratic. The people that are coaches are neither medically or physically (meaning exercise accredited). Them medical grade blah blah blah is a bunch of blach. You have to ues the isolates and you are fine, besides on Diet Direct, Noshua Nutrition and other sites sell Medical products used for Medfast patients and Gastric bypass patients.

Just adding my 2 cents.

[IPdivajen]

Sorry, not buying it. Someone at the clinic I go to couldn't afford IP stuff so went off for a few weeks. He stuck 'to plan' to a t because he didn't want to stop losing. He did 'other' shakes that had comparable nutritional content from a label perspective as IP. Same carbs, same protein, etc.

Three weeks later yes, he lost weight. But 78% of what he lost was lean tissue - not fat. Every other week, while using IP products and therefore ingesting IP grade protein, he was losing primarily fat.

Bottom line, not all protein is created equal. Yes, you can and WILL still lose weight by using other products. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

BUT... there's no guarantee that you're not losing a disproportionate amount of lean tissue as you lose the weight. And if you're not seeing a coach, you're not getting the body composite analysis (and I know not everyone gets this) to determine your overall trajectory in this department.

Maybe not everyone cares that much about how much lean vs fat they lose. Maybe to some people it's about losing weight, period. In that case, what I'm saying has no impact whatsoever so carry on! But for me, my overall healthy is the reason I'm doing this in the first place. So I'm going to do everything possible to ensure I'm doing this as safely as possible while staying as healthy as possible. Ya know?

Again, just my two cents' worth here.

[Hgamroth]

Originally Posted by IPdivajen

Sorry, not buying it. Someone at the clinic I go to couldn't afford IP stuff so went off for a few weeks. He stuck 'to plan' to a t because he didn't want to stop losing. He did 'other' shakes that had comparable nutritional content from a label perspective as IP. Same carbs, same protein, etc.

Three weeks later yes, he lost weight. But 78% of what he lost was lean tissue - not fat. Every other week, while using IP products and therefore ingesting IP grade protein, he was losing primarily fat.

Bottom line, not all protein is created equal. Yes, you can and WILL still lose weight by using other products. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

BUT... there's no guarantee that you're not losing a disproportionate amount of lean tissue as you lose the weight. And if you're not seeing a coach, you're not getting the body composite analysis (and I know not everyone gets this) to determine your overall trajectory in this department.

Maybe not everyone cares that much about how much lean vs fat they lose. Maybe to some people it's about losing weight, period. In that case, what I'm saying has no impact whatsoever so carry on! But for me, my overall healthy is the reason I'm doing this in the first place. So I'm going to do everything possible to ensure I'm doing this as safely as possible while staying as healthy as possible. Ya know?

Again, just my two cents' worth here.

I agree. I am struggling financially but I really cannot trust the other products or myself for that matter to do the correct calculations or pick the right products. My health is priority. I am going to get through. I do occasionally use an EAS RTD but IP is the way I am going (and staying.)

[DakotahDaddy]

I cannot believe the super responses I have received from my post. I've been lurking here reading all the success stories and endless advice for over a month now and felt pretty certain that if I shared my issues I would get the advice / encouragement I need. Well, I got that and more! I cannot tell you all how much I really appreciate everyone here and all the support you provide.

I have to agree that there aren't many coaches who can stand up to the knowledge and understanding provided here. My "coach" likes to rub it in my face that she was successful on the program and has kept off the weight... I may be being insensitive by saying so, but sometimes I just have to laugh at these people that have an extra 10-15lbs and consider themselves to be considerably overweight. Yes, their pants are a little tight... or they have to loosen their belt a notch... but they have absolutely no understanding what it is like... to buy shoes just a little too big so you can tie them loose enough to slip them on and off because of the immense effort it takes to tie your shoes while wearing them... to dread having to go to the bathroom because the simple act of wiping is so difficult you end up with cramps in your ribs from the act... to have sores all over that won't heal because you are so nutritionally starved... to have a medication list over 2 pages long and have to pack an extra bathroom bag for all your medications when you travel... to feel the need to stand while attending the church luncheon because all they have is metal folding chairs and you happen to know (from experience) that they won't hold your weight... or tacking that extra strip of cloth to the bottom of your shirts so they don't come untucked from your pants everytime to sit down or stand up.

I do know... and I don't want to anymore! When I agreed to start Ideal Protein, I vowed it was to be my LAST diet... successful or otherwise. This diet will NOT fail because I failed the diet and didn't have the willpower to stick with it and avoid temptation. I have simply reached a point where it needs to end. So either the fat goes... or in a few short months, maybe a year (according to my Dr.) I will succumb to a stroke or heart failure. The sad thing is that my "coach" knows this and tries to throw it in my face saying I cannot be successful without sticking with the IP packets and my life should be worth the expense and I would be willing to find a way to "get the money" to pay for this program so I can succeed. I've proven to myself that I have the willpower to avoid temptation (the ice cream cake in the lunchroom today didn't even look appetizing) and I can endure the constipation and stomach pain. I can't wait until I can eat a banana or an apple again, or drink a tall, ice cold glass of fresh squeezed OJ... but I am convinced they will taste much better when I am thin again.

At least here I know I am not alone in how I feel and that I will get the straight truth without the feeling I am robbing someone's piggy bank.

I don't know yet if I will stick with the pure IP program as far as the food goes or not. I am still waiting to hear back from our FLEX administrator in regards to that (I know I can legally FLEX the administrative/enrollment fee, but the food is still in question). I have enough packets to get through at least 2 full weeks without supplementing with alternatives, but I also have a bunch of alternatives that I have already purchased and more arrived in the mail today (if the Sytrax Nectar tastes half as good as the packaging looks it will be wonderful...) but at least this week I am trying to cut WAY back in hopes of stimulating my weight loss so I can see more than a 2lb drop on the scale. I know with certainty that my "coach" will be full of I told you so's if this works, but I may skip the next weigh-in or two...

Who knows... maybe I am wrong here by trying to find a cheaper way... I learned long ago that you get what you pay for and the majority of the time it is true. Maybe the IP is a "magical blend" that will work better, but I didn't start looking elsewhere until the IP products started returning small numbers... I want to be thin, but I cannot put myself in the poor-house doing it.

All I know is that no matter what my ultimate decision, I have the best coaches right HERE. I'm in this 'til the bitter end, with or without IP...

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by IPdivajen

Sorry, not buying it. Someone at the clinic I go to couldn't afford IP stuff so went off for a few weeks. He stuck 'to plan' to a t because he didn't want to stop losing. He did 'other' shakes that had comparable nutritional content from a label perspective as IP. Same carbs, same protein, etc.

Three weeks later yes, he lost weight. But 78% of what he lost was lean tissue - not fat. Every other week, while using IP products and therefore ingesting IP grade protein, he was losing primarily fat.

Bottom line, not all protein is created equal. Yes, you can and WILL still lose weight by using other products. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

BUT... there's no guarantee that you're not losing a disproportionate amount of lean tissue as you lose the weight. And if you're not seeing a coach, you're not getting the body composite analysis (and I know not everyone gets this) to determine your overall trajectory in this department.

This is the greatest example of FUD I have read on this forum. You're right about one thing. Not all protein is created equal and there are two things special about IP packets. NO-THING. Don't take my word for it though ... lets talk about the science.

What is in an IP Packet? They all pretty much have the same protein ingredients....

Ingredients: Milk Protein concentrate, cacao, whey protein isolate (derived from milk), skim milk powder, artificial and natural flavors, sea salt, xanthan gum, sucralose, silicon dioxide, acesulfame, potassium.

The above is an example of one that has more than just whey. Some have whey and others have MPC and one I saw has MPI. MPC and MPI are mostly whey and a little bit of casein.

Whey is the fastest digesting protein on earth which is why it spikes insulin. It is also the cheapest protein source available. Most people using alternative products are using straight whey concentrate with similar or fewer carbs per serving.

How do I explain the loss of muscle? I don't have to. There is no way, at all, to measure how much fat you lose vs muscle unless you're doing a dexa scan. Hydro static weighing is also fairly accurate. Next up is someone skilled with the use of calipers, then bod pod. At the very bottom of the pile is bioimpedance. Thus, there is no way an IP coach can tell you how much muscle you lost vs fat unless they are highly skilled with fat calipers which is very unlikely. Even if they were highly skilled in obese people calipers become much less accurate.

[Halfagain]

Originally Posted by DakotahDaddy

I cannot believe the super responses I have received from my post. ........

All I know is that no matter what my ultimate decision, I have the best coaches right HERE. I'm in this 'til the bitter end, with or without IP...

You got this! Lets rock this weight loss - which ever way you choose to tackle it, I know you can do it. We're here to support one another. We got this!

[Ugh73]

Originally Posted by IPdivajen

IP stuff is medical grade food. It's a higher quality of protein, which means more of the protein contained in the food is bioavailable for the body to utilize. It's the reason for the astronaut packaging - to ensure no oxygen gets into the product and starts degrading the protein. Which is why you should consume any IP product within 24 hours of opening the package. You'll still get protein from it, of course, but less.

Sounds like you drank the cool aid at your clinic too.

It's not magic protein. The same type of protein is found in alternative products, with the same results. Some alternatives are so alike I bet they come from the exact same factory, "astronaut packaging" and all.

[IPdivajen]

Okay, I'm out of this conversation now. Thanks for playing! You want to keep it civilized, I'm game. But talk to me like a two year old who has no critical thinking skills and I have less than no desire to partake.

[evepet]

Originally Posted by IPdivajen

Sorry, not buying it. Someone at the clinic I go to couldn't afford IP stuff so went off for a few weeks. He stuck 'to plan' to a t because he didn't want to stop losing. He did 'other' shakes that had comparable nutritional content from a label perspective as IP. Same carbs, same protein, etc.

Three weeks later yes, he lost weight. But 78% of what he lost was lean tissue - not fat. Every other week, while using IP products and therefore ingesting IP grade protein, he was losing primarily fat.

Bottom line, not all protein is created equal. Yes, you can and WILL still lose weight by using other products. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

BUT... there's no guarantee that you're not losing a disproportionate amount of lean tissue as you lose the weight. And if you're not seeing a coach, you're not getting the body composite analysis (and I know not everyone gets this) to determine your overall trajectory in this department.

Maybe not everyone cares that much about how much lean vs fat they lose. Maybe to some people it's about losing weight, period. In that case, what I'm saying has no impact whatsoever so carry on! But for me, my overall healthy is the reason I'm doing this in the first place. So I'm going to do everything possible to ensure I'm doing this as safely as possible while staying as healthy as possible. Ya know?

Again, just my two cents' worth here.

I've been monitoring my progress since using alternatives, using my Omron Full Body Sensor Scale... which includes the Body Fat%, Muscle %, etc. I decided to 'invest' in one of these scales when I moved from 'IP Proper' over to alternative products early on, just so I could monitor these things. And so far everything is going extremely well. All of my measurements are steadily progressing in the right direction... and no loss of lean muscle mass whatsoever, although it does fluctuate from day to day sometimes. Over the long haul, all is good. I know these Omron home scales may not be as efficient as the units used by the IP Clinics, but I do feel that they still give the overall trend -- and after 6 months there's definitely a healthy trend going on in my body. Like you - just my two cents' worth.

BTW DivaJen, this is not intended in anyway to be critical of your comment - everyone is entitled to their opinion - and I'm frankly thrilled for you as I see the terrific results you've been getting while on IP! But my experience with the alternatives as per maintaining lean body mass has definitely been different from what that client experienced at your IP clinic. And I think folks reading this thread should be aware of that.

[wuv2bloved]

Originally Posted by DakotahDaddy

All I know is that no matter what my ultimate decision, I have the best coaches right HERE. I'm in this 'til the bitter end, with or without IP...

Which ever way you chose to lose your weight the ultimate goal is a lifestyle change. Once you change your way of thinking about food and not letting it control you any longer that is what it is all about. We need food to live, its how we learn to consume it that over takes us. Once we realize that the food is our fuel to live then we make the change. Sounds like you are in it to win it, so you will be fine with whatever program you decide upon. If there is anything WE (I) can do to help you out, just let Us (me) know...we are all on the same journey, to get healthier and live longer

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by IPdivajen

Okay, I'm out of this conversation now. Thanks for playing! You want to keep it civilized, I'm game. But talk to me like a two year old who has no critical thinking skills and I have less than no desire to partake.

I think the kool-aid comment was a bit over the top but you really shouldn't take it personally. How the heck are you supposed to know what is real and what isn't? This isn't a commentary on you or your thinking skills.

You get data - your brain processes it - you make a conclusion. From your perspective everything made sense.

The problem is that so many people have an agenda (to make money) that the truth is difficult to get to. Every website has a different idea on what the truth is and they're all rather convincing. I would urge you not to stick your head in the sand but to keep learning.

The fact is there is nothing special about IP foods. Protein properly stored has a shelf life of years and when exposed to the elements doesn't degrade fast. You were sold a bill of goods. It doesn't make you stupid or anything like it.

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by wuv2bloved

Which ever way you chose to lose your weight the ultimate goal is a lifestyle change. Once you change your way of thinking about food and not letting it control you any longer that is what it is all about. We need food to live, its how we learn to consume it that over takes us. Once we realize that the food is our fuel to live then we make the change. Sounds like you are in it to win it, so you will be fine with whatever program you decide upon. If there is anything WE (I) can do to help you out, just let Us (me) know...we are all on the same journey, to get healthier and live longer

This is the kind of advice and support that is worth paying for. Well said.

[djs06]

Originally Posted by wuv2bloved

Which ever way you chose to lose your weight the ultimate goal is a lifestyle change. Once you change your way of thinking about food and not letting it control you any longer that is what it is all about. We need food to live, its how we learn to consume it that over takes us. Once we realize that the food is our fuel to live then we make the change. Sounds like you are in it to win it, so you will be fine with whatever program you decide upon. If there is anything WE (I) can do to help you out, just let Us (me) know...we are all on the same journey, to get healthier and live longer

Wuv, you are fantastic. Just sayin'. You always seem to say the right thing to make folks feel comfortable.

Thanks for making this forum a welcoming place.