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Old 10-23-2013, 04:36 PM   #166  
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The mindset to bend the rules may work, to some degree for some, for a while. Individual choice...But since most of us on here have tried and tried to lose weight, and this is not a first attempt at a diet, embracing this...letting go and recognizing the structure is part of why it works...is liberating!

The mindset to embrace this plan is also very individual. Self realization of how we undermine ourselves is a bonus that comes from the surrender. Some of us here who have tried a zillion other things, initially decide to give IP a try within a time frame and reevaluate progress, and I think that is a fair way to attack this beast! Most find they are losing consistently according to body mass, metabolic challenges, age and other factors, when this was often not not the case on other plans.

Did I mention...? Desperation to find something that will work...maybe helps in being compliant too! It's sad to think that is a key component...but for some of us, it surely is a biggie.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:42 PM   #167  
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I know this is a little bit off topic for this thread...but has anyone ever considered WeightWatchers as a way to maintain losses from IP? Just a thought...
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:24 PM   #168  
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The mindset to embrace this plan is also very individual. Self realization of how we undermine ourselves is a bonus that comes from the surrender.
65x65,

Very well said!

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Old 10-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #169  
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I know this is a little bit off topic for this thread...but has anyone ever considered WeightWatchers as a way to maintain losses from IP? Just a thought...
I can speak only for myself. I would not return to Weight Watchers either as a way to lose weight or as a way to maintain.

The science behind IP is different from Weight Watchers. IP is designed to address things like insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome 'X', and other conditions that come with the body being unable to properly digest sugars.

Unless WW has changed since I last was on it, WW does not do this.

Besides helping me to be more successful at losing weight, IP (as a form of low carb moderate protein / ie, ketogenic nutrition) have given me many benefits that WW cannot provide. For instance, because of low carb/moderate protein:

* my appetite and cravings are kept in check. When I keep out the sugars/carbs, I have no ravenous insatiable hunger. I am satisfied.

* I am mentally much sharper.

* my blood sugars have stabilised. When my blood sugar used to swing, I used to suffer mood swings, too. Besides that, I often felt very fatigued. Swinging blood sugars are hard on the body.

* my skin is much healthier in its appearance

* my energy is up and consistent

* my depression is gone. Now that I have been on IP for 5 months, I have been able to dramatically reduce the amount of anti-depressant I use. I am planning an appointment to see my doctor to discuss going off the anti-depressants. I have been using them consistently since 2002.

I successfully lost weight with WW several times in my life:

* in the late 1980's, I lost 25 pounds.
* in the late 1990's, I lost 60 pounds.

Neither of these 'losses' were easy and they were accompanied by lots of hard work at the gym.

IP has been different. Once I got through the initial 'entry into the programme' -- and once I mentally surrendered to it -- it has been fairly straightforward ever since. Because of ketosis, there have been very few times (zero?) that I have felt irresistible urges to eat things that are off course. I might sometimes have eaten more or less than I am entitled to because of being away from my own kitchen. But other than that, I have stayed on track.

With IP, my regular exercise is a daily walk with my 2 scottish terriers.

I will not go back to WW even for maintenance. I have had such good success with IP that I plan to continue into maintenance with the recommendations of this plan and other resources that support low carb/moderate protein life.

My 2 cents for what they are worth.

Annik

Last edited by Annik; 10-23-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:52 PM   #170  
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Great points Annik, appreciate your two cents forsure.

I just wonder though- if you could keep a low carb lifestyle but use the counting points system to maintain an IP loss...or let's say do IP for 3 months then weightwatchers thereafter while keeping the blood sugar/low carb principles in mind that were learned on IP.

I just think weightwatchers is easier to follow day to day, that's all. I haven't decided how I am going to maintain- if I ever get there! haha just thinking about things is all.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:02 PM   #171  
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I know this is a little bit off topic for this thread...but has anyone ever considered WeightWatchers as a way to maintain losses from IP? Just a thought...
J-
WW simply does not work for everyone...and it is not only the flexibility that allows some to derail causing failure.

WW uses points which is really just a condensed and rounded off calorie count as you most likely know. I (and many others here) gained on WW because it matters where the calories come from. 800 calories that are NOT from a low glycemic mix of foods will make me gain....or at the very least stall after a small loss. I have food diaries and years of personal trainer bills to prove it.

Sugar ...blatant and hidden... too many carbs are my enemy...I love what IP has offered me as a way to combat that metabolic problem which is why I will need to do Paleo in maintenance.
A little story that's true...
The retired medical director (Internal Medicine) for 23 years on my job was an expert in thyroid and endocrine problems. Our retiree group meets every month for lunch. The Med Director and I always enjoyed and respected each other in the job and now enjoy catching up. Recently of course he noted and commented on my weight loss... I told him how desperate I was about 10 years ago to lose weight. Had been to every endocrinologist in town. ...and almost called him to see if he would PLEASE take me as a private paying patient...(he had been retired several years at that point.) I recounted my problems with WW...and how I'd gained on their plan....(more than one try)..and they made me feel I was non-compliant because "that is the only way WW won't work" for someone.

His response..."I wish you'd have called me...and for the record... The wife of "The Person XYZ ", who bought and brought the first WW franchise here in this state, was a patient of mine...because she couldn't lose weight on WW"

Vindication...He applauded the low GI approach and said some people WILL NOT lose weight if the food on the diet is not a good metabolic match. My current MD says the same thing.

If it works for you...that's great, but most of us did not get this desperate, to do something as restrictive as IP with out some intrinsic metabolic challenge. The emotional and mental aspects of dieting ...any diet....are a whole 'nother issue...the metabolic challenge is insurmountable for some. Reason we are so passionate. And as the clock ticks...we become more so.

I wish you the best finding what works for you....you mentioned WW in the past and maybe you will be part of the lucky ones group. Most on here hit the wall in frustration with WW early on in this quest for normal weight and good health.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:23 PM   #172  
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Great points Annik, appreciate your two cents forsure.

I just wonder though- if you could keep a low carb lifestyle but use the counting points system to maintain an IP loss...or let's say do IP for 3 months then weightwatchers thereafter while keeping the blood sugar/low carb principles in mind that were learned on IP.

I just think weightwatchers is easier to follow day to day, that's all. I haven't decided how I am going to maintain- if I ever get there! haha just thinking about things is all.
I echo 65x65's response. She has expressed it very well.

WW does not work for me in the long run. And to try to do it in a low carb format would seem like I am straddling in two different worlds. IP works so well for me. I have to stick it. I am +50 years old. I am into the second half of my life. I've done the dabbling here and there thing and it doesn't work for me.

I must sound like a recovering alcoholic! Believe me, I have struggled with my weight for so long. This works for me. I want to go into my retirement years in good health. My physical freedom to move easily, to sit comfortably on a plane and not have to ask for a lap belt extender, to be able to shop easily for clothing and feel happy about how they fit, to be able to climb stairs, to go for walks with my dogs, to be able to wear my high heels again, to be able to fit into the front passenger seat of a Jetta... the short term gratifications I can find in food simply are not compelling enough to be more appealing than all these things are to me.

Like 65x65, I'll be going paleo.

Next May, I am planning to go on The Low Carb Cruise with Jimmy Moore and his gang. Apparently low carb has taken off in Sweden and alot of Swedes make the trip with him. Looking forward to it and to learning more about this new way of life.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:29 PM   #173  
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ps if you lean to low carb but aren't sure about ip, i wonder if it might be a good idea to explore the Low Carb Forum that is in another section of 3 Fat Chicks on a Diet. Probably some other alternatives are offered there that might appeal to you.

IP is not the one and only low carb/moderate protein ketogenic diet going.

There might be something that you will find more to your liking.

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Old 10-23-2013, 11:05 PM   #174  
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Annik and 65x65,

It is not that I don't like IP, and I totally get the metabolic ideas behind IP.

I guess I should have explained myself better- what I was trying to get at was counting WW points while doing Paleo just so you know how many calories to eat type of thing...that's all.

Question for you guys- can you do Paleo and eat whatever/however much paleo approved foods without gaining? My guess is probably not- if you still eat more calories than are being spent you still gain, no?

Anyway, I am a long way off from the maintenance stage anyway...I will figure it out when I get there. Right now, I have bigger fish to fry - as in start losing again.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:04 AM   #175  
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Annik and 65x65,

It is not that I don't like IP, and I totally get the metabolic ideas behind IP.

I guess I should have explained myself better- what I was trying to get at was counting WW points while doing Paleo just so you know how many calories to eat type of thing...that's all.

Question for you guys- can you do Paleo and eat whatever/however much paleo approved foods without gaining? My guess is probably not- if you still eat more calories than are being spent you still gain, no?

Anyway, I am a long way off from the maintenance stage anyway...I will figure it out when I get there. Right now, I have bigger fish to fry - as in start losing again.
Most of the Paleo blogs and sites don't even give calorie counts, but I believe the idea is moderation as far as portion size etc. Since it is higher in protein and the carbs are devoid of carbs which are high glycemic foods, I suspect, similar to IP, hunger is lessened.

There is no one right or wrong way to manage your own diet. There are regimens and some of them work pretty well for most people. But personality and metabolism will dictate what each one of us does and the results will be reflective of how we do it. If I may point out J...you are younger than a lot of us on here who have been fighting this for years, some for most of their lives. That time in the battlefield can change how one approaches weight loss and decision making. I hate being short ...and having to eat shorter versions of what everyone around me can handle. I spent way too many years fussing about the "unfair" hand I was dealt. End of the day..nothing changed. I haven't grown anyway except wider...but finally being proportioned right for my height, shopping for nice clothes...being able to feel good about myself won and I had to level the playing field of what went in my body all by myself. I just wish it hadn't taken so long to find something that worked once I got my head to that place.

Don't fight yourself so hard. I see you doing that. You are close to my height...and will face similar hurdles no matter which diet you chose. You are not average height. It's a bad hand. Only you can make "whatever plan" really work for you, and chances are, the modifications you can be making will not be on the generous side, or else you will always be in a struggle, or settling for not being able to reach your goal. I speak from experience, and am not critiquing you. The only person that has to be happy is you. I know when I was that person...I was miserable.

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:20 PM   #176  
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Annik and 65x65,

It is not that I don't like IP, and I totally get the metabolic ideas behind IP.

I guess I should have explained myself better- what I was trying to get at was counting WW points while doing Paleo just so you know how many calories to eat type of thing...that's all.

Question for you guys- can you do Paleo and eat whatever/however much paleo approved foods without gaining? My guess is probably not- if you still eat more calories than are being spent you still gain, no?

Anyway, I am a long way off from the maintenance stage anyway...I will figure it out when I get there. Right now, I have bigger fish to fry - as in start losing again.
I had to go off IP for medical reasons and had to eat carbs to restore thyroid function . I have done that now for almost six months. I have found that while weight loss seems to happen only with a low carb diet, I can easily maintain even on a moderate, sometimes high carb diet. But I have to watch caloric intake and I also exercise daily. My total calories to maintain at a sedentary lifestyle are actually quite low and in the 1700-1800 range. So, I guess you will not be able to eat how much you want on any kind of diet. You should be able to have occasional days where you can go overboard. But you have to watch it. The good news is that somehow my body is perfectly happy with eating less. I did not even get the cravings back so much around PMS time.

Also, my experience with a very low carb diet indicates that this may not be a healthy long-term lifestyle. I would only recommend it for defined periods of time to lose weight. I would not use ketosis to maintain. Initially, I thought it would be an option, but I changed my mind. Depending on your genetic background, it can cause health problems long-term. Paleo or Atkins may be alternatives, but the same concerns apply. Ketosis can negatively affect hormonal balance in some people, whether you use IP, Paleo or Atkins as a means. There is no one for all lifestyle. You have to see what works best for you and, most importantly, what is the most healthy for your body.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:54 AM   #177  
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Annik and 65x65,

It is not that I don't like IP, and I totally get the metabolic ideas behind IP.

I guess I should have explained myself better- what I was trying to get at was counting WW points while doing Paleo just so you know how many calories to eat type of thing...that's all.

Question for you guys- can you do Paleo and eat whatever/however much paleo approved foods without gaining? My guess is probably not- if you still eat more calories than are being spent you still gain, no?

Anyway, I am a long way off from the maintenance stage anyway...I will figure it out when I get there. Right now, I have bigger fish to fry - as in start losing again.
Hi J,

From my point of view, 65x65 has said it well. (She is an eminently wise person!)

Good for you to be thinking about maintenance and asking questions. Maintenance is an important consideration to take into account when coming to terms with the fact that in managing weight, we are in this for the long haul.

Like 65x65, I also am older. I have struggled with weight issues all my life.

I have lost and regained many times. The maintenance issue is as important as the weight loss itself.

So again I say: good for you to be thinking about maintenance. It is definitely part of the picture.

Keep going! You'll get there!

Annik

Last edited by Annik; 10-26-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:56 AM   #178  
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There is no one for all lifestyle. You have to see what works best for you and, most importantly, what is the most healthy for your body.
Yes!
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:24 PM   #179  
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You all seem to have a lot of knowledge of IP. I have followed a low carb diet in the past - Jorge Cruise's, which worked great, but I fell off the wagon and gained all my weight back plus some. I joined IP because I need some structure and accountability to get this weight off. I am having trouble understanding why there is sugar and other weird chemical stuff in the IP products since I have been in the mind set that things like sugar/soy are not good for you. Perhaps I am missing something here...
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:39 PM   #180  
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You all seem to have a lot of knowledge of IP. I have followed a low carb diet in the past - Jorge Cruise's, which worked great, but I fell off the wagon and gained all my weight back plus some. I joined IP because I need some structure and accountability to get this weight off. I am having trouble understanding why there is sugar and other weird chemical stuff in the IP products since I have been in the mind set that things like sugar/soy are not good for you. Perhaps I am missing something here...
Stephascope,

I don't know why. I am totally impressed with some of the new IP products that are moving to higher carb content -- eg some of the bars.

I personally am not a fan of soy -- not because of any intolerance but because I just don't think it is that good for a person. Sugars occur naturally in many things so it is difficult to avoid it entirely.

I don't use many of the higher carb count IP products. I don't have a restricted every day (I use them on special occasions. They are my treats. I don't need a treat every day.)

I think each person has a unique range of what their body can handle in terms of sugar, etc. The IP products -- despite some of their content -- and protocol keep us under that range.

I not a fan of processed foods either. From that perspective, using IP's packaged food was a bit of a stumbling block. Because I knew that it worked, I personally resolved that using some packaged food for a finite period of time was a healthier option than being super + morbidly obese ... which I clinically was.

I respect IP and its protocols.

Annik
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