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No-You Haven't Tried Everything...

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #1
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Default No-You Haven't Tried Everything...

This is probably going to be seen as cold-hearted and distant. Probably mean. And a little harsh. But I have started seeing more and more posts on how people have tired "everything" and can't seem to lose any weight. Barring a medical condition that prohibits weight loss, the simple truth is, no. No you have not tried "everything". I know, because I tried "everything" once before as well.

First things first...while eliminating sugar, pop, fat, and carbs is healthier for you, it will NOT net weight loss if you are still eating a surplus of calories. It just simply will not. Adding in exercise will NOT net weight loss if you continue to eat a surplus of calories. That is the biggest mistake we make when we start out trying to lose some weight. We are always told "eat less, move more" and the pounds will suddenly disappear. Not so much. While the basis behind this theory hold true, there is a LOT more to it than just that.

When you do a quick search, or even talk to your doctor, every thing points to you wanting to measure and weigh EVERYHING you eat. And all the materials out there indicate that you need to eat between 1200-1500 calories to lose weight. But if you are 40 years old and 5 foot nothing and don't exercise, 1500 might be TOO much! And if you are 23 years old, 5 foot 9 and work out three times to four times a week, 1200 might be TOO less! 100 calories can make or break success.

When you weight and measure...count your calories. It really isn't that hard. Go to MyFitnessPal, open an account, and ENTER your foods. This amazing thing happens...it logs your calories. AMAZING! You see, there is no need to carry around pen and paper and a book that lists it all. Just enter your food daily. You don't have to do it forever...just long enough to figure out exactly what you eat every day. And that stick of gum you just put in your mouth? Log it. It DOES have calories. It DOES have carbs. The manufator just isn't required to list it because it is less than 1g. But 10 slices a day can be as much a 9.9 carbs a day. That adds up, quickly.

Now that you know how much you eat, you need to figure out if you are eating enough or too much. Go get your BMR and RMR. Go HERE
for an easy calculator (and it also explains just WHAT you are looking for.) Be honest with yourself on your activity level. This is important. When in doubt, go one down. Whatever number it gives you is your maintenance number. That is what you need to simply maintain your current weight. Subtract 500 to 1000 calories from that number to get the amount of calories you need in order to lose weight.

It takes a 3500 calories, plus or minus, to make or break a pound. At 500 less a day, you should see an average of 1 pound a week. If you are honest with yourself. If you are honestly counting your calories. If you are honestly working out (for what it is worth, weight loss is 90% what you eat and 10% exercise.)

Once you are educated, weight loss really isn't all that hard. It is nothing more than math. And those stalls you hit every so often? Think of your body and your metabolism as a two year old child. Every now and then, it has to nap to recharge. When it wakes back up, it will run full force again. If you detour on your plan when you stall out you are just going to have to start all over.

And if you are getting tired of starting over, stop quitting. It was never said weight loss was easy. It was said it was worth it.

Vent over and out.

ETA: Check your BMR and RMR often, after every 20 pounds lost or in an change in activity longer than 2 weeks. It WILL change. And excuse all errors...typing from a itty bitty netbook
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Stage 1: Mini Goal 1: 265 pounds - complete 1/12/13; Mini Goal 2: 250 pounds - complete 4/17/13; Mini Goal 3: 225 pounds - completed 10/21/13
Stage 2: Moderate Obesity BMI - completed 11/26/13; ONDERLAND; Overweight BMI
Stage 3: work in progress

One for every 10 pounds lost:

Last edited by zoesmom : 07-19-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #2
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I agree 100%. I've been stuck at the same weight for 1.5 weeks and coincidentally I stopped tracking my calories 1.5 weeks ago thinking now I knew enough about portion sizes to do it on my own. Hmm, back to calorie counting I go!
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:26 AM   #3
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I will admit when I first saw the title I thought it was going to be a mean rant...but after reading it, I LOVE this thread! I hope all "who have tried everything" reads this!
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #4
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Great post! Agree 100%. And if I may add on, I'm tired of seeing posts asking for help and advice and when the responses come in are immediately dismissed because they've "already been tried and didn't work" or that they're doing "everything correctly" (weighing and measuring food, accurate carb counts, etc.). When pushed further to include a sample of their regular diet to get some fresh eyes on it the thread almost always goes dead.

In those instances I ask myself what the point of posting was if they didn't want the help and/or advice.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Only Believe View Post
I will admit when I first saw the title I thought it was going to be a mean rant...but after reading it, I LOVE this thread! I hope all "who have tried everything" reads this!
Thank you. It wasn't intended to be "mean." At the same token, I am peturbed by how many people have been recently playing the "I tried everything" card when in fact, they haven't. I seriously know that game. I did it for three years and gained 16 pounds during that time. I went to the gym 5 days a week. I was eating 1200 calories. I wasn't drinking pop. I wasn't eating sugar. I wasn't eating potatoes or bread or corn. And I gained 16 pounds. I was trying "everything". Come to find out...I wasn't eating enough calories. And I was/am on one of those low carb/high protein diets. I now eat, depending on my workout schedule, 1400-1700 calories a day. The days I don't eat enough, I don't lose. The days I eat too much, I gain. But when I am eating within what my BMR and RMR suggest, minus the 1000?I am dropping an average of 2.22 pounds a week. Once the math of WHAT you need is figured out, it is all down hill from there (pun not intended.)
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curvynotlumpy View Post
Great post! Agree 100%. And if I may add on, I'm tired of seeing posts asking for help and advice and when the responses come in are immediately dismissed because they've "already been tried and didn't work" or that they're doing "everything correctly" (weighing and measuring food, accurate carb counts, etc.). When pushed further to include a sample of their regular diet to get some fresh eyes on it the thread almost always goes dead.

In those instances I ask myself what the point of posting was if they didn't want the help and/or advice.
YES! THIS!!!! I am SO glad it isn't just me!!!
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Stage 1: Mini Goal 1: 265 pounds - complete 1/12/13; Mini Goal 2: 250 pounds - complete 4/17/13; Mini Goal 3: 225 pounds - completed 10/21/13
Stage 2: Moderate Obesity BMI - completed 11/26/13; ONDERLAND; Overweight BMI
Stage 3: work in progress

One for every 10 pounds lost:
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoesmom View Post
This is probably going to be seen as cold-hearted and distant. Probably mean. And a little harsh. But I have started seeing more and more posts on how people have tired "everything" and can't seem to lose any weight. Barring a medical condition that prohibits weight loss, the simple truth is, no. No you have not tried "everything". I know, because I tried "everything" once before as well.

First things first...while eliminating sugar, pop, fat, and carbs is healthier for you, it will NOT net weight loss if you are still eating a surplus of calories. It just simply will not. Adding in exercise will NOT net weight loss if you continue to eat a surplus of calories. That is the biggest mistake we make when we start out trying to lose some weight. We are always told "eat less, move more" and the pounds will suddenly disappear. Not so much. While the basis behind this theory hold true, there is a LOT more to it than just that.

When you do a quick search, or even talk to your doctor, every thing points to you wanting to measure and weigh EVERYHING you eat. And all the materials out there indicate that you need to eat between 1200-1500 calories to lose weight. But if you are 40 years old and 5 foot nothing and don't exercise, 1500 might be TOO much! And if you are 23 years old, 5 foot 9 and work out three times to four times a week, 1200 might be TOO less! 100 calories can make or break success.

When you weight and measure...count your calories. It really isn't that hard. Go to MyFitnessPal, open an account, and ENTER your foods. This amazing thing happens...it logs your calories. AMAZING! You see, there is no need to carry around pen and paper and a book that lists it all. Just enter your food daily. You don't have to do it forever...just long enough to figure out exactly what you eat every day. And that stick of gum you just put in your mouth? Log it. It DOES have calories. It DOES have carbs. The manufator just isn't required to list it because it is less than 1g. But 10 slices a day can be as much a 9.9 carbs a day. That adds up, quickly.

Now that you know how much you eat, you need to figure out if you are eating enough or too much. Go get your BMR and RMR. Go HERE
for an easy calculator (and it also explains just WHAT you are looking for.) Be honest with yourself on your activity level. This is important. When in doubt, go one down. Whatever number it gives you is your maintenance number. That is what you need to simply maintain your current weight. Subtract 500 to 1000 calories from that number to get the amount of calories you need in order to lose weight.

It takes a 3500 calories, plus or minus, to make or break a pound. At 500 less a day, you should see an average of 1 pound a week. If you are honest with yourself. If you are honestly counting your calories. If you are honestly working out (for what it is worth, weight loss is 90% what you eat and 10% exercise.)

Once you are educated, weight loss really isn't all that hard. It is nothing more than math. And those stalls you hit every so often? Think of your body and your metabolism as a two year old child. Every now and then, it has to nap to recharge. When it wakes back up, it will run full force again. If you detour on your plan when you stall out you are just going to have to start all over.

And if you are getting tired of starting over, stop quitting. It was never said weight loss was easy. It was said it was worth it.

Vent over and out.

ETA: Check your BMR and RMR often, after every 20 pounds lost or in an change in activity longer than 2 weeks. It WILL change. And excuse all errors...typing from a itty bitty netbook
OMG, love this post!!!
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2007- 230 lbs to 160 lbs after baby #1 Boy
2010- 220 lbs to 145 lbs after baby #2 Boy
2013 - 215 lbs to 157 lbs after baby #3 Boy
Baby #4 - It's a Girl!


Pregnancy Goal: Stay under 200 lbs
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curvynotlumpy View Post
Great post! Agree 100%. And if I may add on, I'm tired of seeing posts asking for help and advice and when the responses come in are immediately dismissed because they've "already been tried and didn't work" or that they're doing "everything correctly" (weighing and measuring food, accurate carb counts, etc.). When pushed further to include a sample of their regular diet to get some fresh eyes on it the thread almost always goes dead.

In those instances I ask myself what the point of posting was if they didn't want the help and/or advice.
Too freaking true!!!

Seriously I love helping people who WANT to be helped. I think a percentage of new posters want direction. But then there are the ones you mention. They don't want help, they want people to validate their theory that THEY cannot lose weight...so that they can spend the rest of their life not taking responsibility for thier weight with the excuse of "I tried everything and I just can't lose weight"...I'd have way more respoect for someone that was just like "I don't feel like doing anything that involves too much effort. If the weight wont come off just from giving up soda and walking a few miles a week, I cant be bothered"...at least that is honest!!

Recently I was trying to direct a poster tht said she had a very low metabolism (like she only burned like 800 cals a day). My self and several posters did not dismiss her claim, but tried to help her, asked her to post a diet sample, and even suggested she get her metabolic rate tested to confirm, but she just seemed to side step every suggestion. It got frustrating. I think all she wanted was someone over a computer to be like "yeah you have a low metabolism, you will never be able to lose weight".

It annoys me, but the way I try to look at it as they are the ones that are going to spend the rest of their life fat because they'd rather spend more energy finding an excuse than just learning what they need to do to lose weight.
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2007- 230 lbs to 160 lbs after baby #1 Boy
2010- 220 lbs to 145 lbs after baby #2 Boy
2013 - 215 lbs to 157 lbs after baby #3 Boy
Baby #4 - It's a Girl!


Pregnancy Goal: Stay under 200 lbs

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Old 07-19-2013, 11:37 AM   #9
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They don't want help, they want people to validate their theory that THEY cannot lose weight...so that they can spend the rest of their life not taking responsibility for thier weight with the excuse of "I tried everything and I just can't lose weight"...I'd have way more respoect for someone that was just like "I don't feel like doing anything that involves too much effort. If the weight wont come off just from giving up soda and walking a few miles a week, I cant be bothered"...at least that is honest!!

Could not have stated this better myself Glamour Girl!
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:53 AM   #10
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ETA: It has been brought to my attention that the calculator I provided lists your BMR and RMR seperately from that of the BMR and RMR associated with your activity level....use the one associated with your activity level and subtract the 500 to 1000 from THAT number! (Sorry, I use a much more conveluted formula by hand and scratch paper instead of a calculator so I didn't test it first since it is easier for me to just enter eveything in a hand held than search for the website. Total math junkie, if you can't tell )

And GG - 100% agree with you!
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Stage 1: Mini Goal 1: 265 pounds - complete 1/12/13; Mini Goal 2: 250 pounds - complete 4/17/13; Mini Goal 3: 225 pounds - completed 10/21/13
Stage 2: Moderate Obesity BMI - completed 11/26/13; ONDERLAND; Overweight BMI
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One for every 10 pounds lost:
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:42 PM   #11
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I agree with so much on this thread, I couldnt quote all of it. I've tried to help people in the past on a different message board I go to and I've become so frustrated and just finally gave up. I still mod the diet/exercise boards but no longer give advice unless someone specifically asks me for it.

It would be frustrating to me to see people eating so little and then wondering why they weren't losing anymore. Or others who were like I don't eat that bad! And they weren't being honest. I know of someone where the couple is both overweight, both have diabetes and HBP - but they "don't eat that bad!" Or others who say they tried everything - it doesnt work. But when you talk to them, it DID work - they just stopped following whatever plan they were doing.

Or people who keep junk in the house - um... get it the f out of the house if it tempts you too much! Or those who ask me for running advice and then don't like my first piece of advice of get the right shoes!

I know I used to say "I don't eat that bad" before I started losing weight and when I started finally being honest with myself - I did eat that bad. I ate too much. And that is when I finally started losing weight - when I became honest with myself. Its funny because when my husband and I have a "bad" day we'll say wow this is how we used to eat on a regular basis.
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #12
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Lizzyg, you're insights are right on! I'll use me as an example. I love exercise and do a lot of it. I think I've been doing the monthly exercise challenges for at least 6 months. I've also been struggling with losing any real weight. I KNOW what the problem is. It has nothing to do with exercise (it never does) but everything to do with not tracking and accounting for correctly everything that goes into my big maw! I cannot in good faith come to the boards and seek yours and any of my other 3fcers advice without being honest about what I already know to be true about my eating habits.

And as a sideline: I could never understand why folks who want to run won't take the "get the right shoe" advice. My goodness, every time I buy a new pair of running shoes you'd think I had bought a pair of Manolo Blahniks (which I don't have btw)!
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curvynotlumpy View Post
Lizzyg, you're insights are right on! I'll use me as an example. I love exercise and do a lot of it. I think I've been doing the monthly exercise challenges for at least 6 months. I've also been struggling with losing any real weight. I KNOW what the problem is. It has nothing to do with exercise (it never does) but everything to do with not tracking and accounting for correctly everything that goes into my big maw! I cannot in good faith come to the boards and seek yours and any of my other 3fcers advice without being honest about what I already know to be true about my eating habits.

And as a sideline: I could never understand why folks who want to run won't take the "get the right shoe" advice. My goodness, every time I buy a new pair of running shoes you'd think I had bought a pair of Manolo Blahniks (which I don't have btw)!
I've been doing the same thing, even recently. I have 7 days out of the last 14 that I haven't logged my food. I've still been exercising but not logging and I haven't lost weight either. I know what it is too - eating too much again. It's not that calorie counting doesnt work - it does but it doesnt work when you stop doing it!
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Old 07-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #14
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I think many people fall into the failure trap, for reasons other than lazy, crazy, or stupid.

For decades, I blamed myself and kept trying and failing. I knew I was fat because I wasn't staying on plan. What I couldn't figure out is why I couldn't stay on plan.

I felt like I had to be lazy, crazy, and stupid, although that didn't explain why I excelled in other aspects of my life.

What I didn't try was unlearning the lazy, crazy, stupid handbook.

Cultural weight loss traditions, rituals, and beliefs do not support success. We're largely taught (by example) that losing slowly is failure - that imperfection is failure - that not losing is as much a failure as gaining (so if you're not losing, you might as well be gaining).

The biggest obstacle to success is often recognizing that partial success IS success and not total failure.

All the little rituals need to be abandoned as well. The "I've blown it," and "I'll eat now and start fresh tomorrow" philosophies, and even the tradition of labeling ourselves lazy, crazy, and stupid for following the only path we've known, because it's the only path we've seen others follow.

Being patient and persistent when it comes to weight loss is a very radical and un-American philosophy.
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Old 07-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #15
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I've gotten a couple of messages on people trying to decipher BMR and RMR. Yes, it is confusing. I get that. So, I will try to break it down a little more.

Just what is BMR? BMR stands for Basal Metabolic Rate, and is synonymous with Basal Energy Expenditure or BEE. BMR measurements are typically taken in a darkened room upon waking after 8 hours of sleep; 12 hours of fasting to ensure that the digestive system is inactive; and with the subject resting in a reclining position.

And what is RMR? RMR stands for Resting Metabolic Rate, and is synonymous with Resting Energy Expenditure or REE. RMR measurements are typically taken under less restricted conditions than BMR, and do not require that the subject spend the night sleeping in the test facility prior to testing.

Pretty much, it is darn near impossible to get an accurate number of how many calories we burn in a day. Sure, we log our exercise...but how accurate is it? and did we count that gardening? Or cleaning the bathroom? Or any of that other stuff we did? This takes the "guess work" out of logging our calories...more or less.

It is important to note that BMR and RMR change with weight, age, height, and activity, so it may have to be updated often. It is also important to note that you can alternate days...if you don't exercise today, use the sedentary numbers. But if you work out 3 to 5 times a week, use the moderate numbers on work out days only.

So...moving forward. I'll break mine down for you for an example.

My BMR is 1816 and my RMR is 1773. These are my base numbers and they mean just about nothing as my activity is not factored in. However, the following numbers mean a lot more.

Sedentary--Little or no exercise: 2,179 and 2,128

Lightly Active--exercise or sports 1-3days/week: 2,497 and 2,438

Moderately Active--exercise or sports 3-5days/week: 2,815 and 2,748

Very Active Hard--exercise or sports 6-7days/week: 3,133 and 3,058

Extremely Active--daily exercise or sports or job: 3,450 and 3,369

These are maintenance number only.

If I want to lose weight, I need to make adjustments to these numbers, anywhere from 500 to 1000. If you are getting less than 1200, you should see a doctor (I am seeing one, FWIW.) Normally, you would want to deduct 500 on the lower end of the spectrum and closer to 1000 on the higher end. Since I am doctor supervised, I deduct 1000 and 1500. Make of that what you will.

On the days I do not exercise, my maintenance is 2179 and 2128. I get between 1128 and 1179 calories a day on the days I do not work out.

On the days I bust arse, I go for moderate activity. My maintenance would be 2815 or 2748. But, I get between 1248 and 1315 in calories.

Disclaimer...my doctor recently, as of this week, wants me to up my calories to 1715 - 1815 on work out days.

That means, I HAD been eating roughly 1200 on non work out days and roughly 1400 on work out days. Starting this week, I am 1450 (750 is deducted from my sedentary numbers) on non work out days, and 1700 on workout days.

I lose, on average, 2.22 pounds a week. I have stalls. I have gains. I have weeks like this week where I drop like mad, but, I lose on average 2.22 pounds a week.

There you have it Clear as mud, huh?
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Stage 1: Mini Goal 1: 265 pounds - complete 1/12/13; Mini Goal 2: 250 pounds - complete 4/17/13; Mini Goal 3: 225 pounds - completed 10/21/13
Stage 2: Moderate Obesity BMI - completed 11/26/13; ONDERLAND; Overweight BMI
Stage 3: work in progress

One for every 10 pounds lost:
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