[TooManyDimples]

Originally Posted by mkendrick

TooManyDimples, I think a lot of people are like us. People who prefer to eat a lot at one time and who are hungrier later in the day. Unfortunately, the "mini meal" and "planned snacks" concepts are the most widely endorsed models these days. So many of us are trying to stuff ourselves into molds that we simply don't fit in.

I'd highly suggest trying daily fasting. Who knows, it may not work for you, but you may discover that it's fanfreakingtastic like I did. I think eating between 2-8pm is perfectly legitimate...that's generally my window. I don't really have a defined time period (except no food before noon), but I don't usually get legitimate hunger feelings until 2. Don't be discouraged if you feel hungry earlier than that. Like I said, I'm NOT a morning eater, but after months of forcing myself to eat at 7am, 9am, and noon...my body was angry that I hadn't fed it at 7am and 9am for a few days. But I got used to it quick and I'm back to feeling disgusted at the thought of eating before noon, lol. And I'm ALWAYS thrilled that I get to eat so much food in the afternoon and evening, hehe.

Thanks! =) It's kind of funny because I did get some hunger signals around my usual eating times. I guess my body did adapt to the 6 meals a day even if my mind never did. I'm sure I'm going to have an adjustment period and I'm cool with that. I just drink some hot tea and I'm good. =)

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by indiblue

1. How strict is the term "fast"? Does it take just one calorie to break the fast, or is intaking a very small number of calories (25? 50?) in the morning still low enough to reap the benefits of lower insulin levels and all the other chemical reactions which occur during a fasting state?

2. By this logic if I were to exercise moderately for 1 hour in the mornings, could I decrease my fasting time? Or did I misinterpret the relationship between calories expended and the length of the fast?

The guy I "follow" is Martin Berkhan. He says under 50 calories will not raise insulin enough to screw up the benefits of the fast. To keep it safe I keep things under 25.

He normally has his male clients follow a 16 hour fast and his female clients a 14 hour fast having found many female don't do as well on a longer fast. From what I have read many people do longer than 16 hours so you'll have to experiment and find what works for you. I do 16-17 hours every day.

[pinkflower]

I too am so pleased to read this thread. I have found that I tend to eat the majority of my calories between 2p-7p, although I never thought of it as fasting. I do have a light meal/snack at about 10 am plus coffee--typically under 250 cals total, so I'm not truly fasting, but that' just when my hunger kicks in. I'm hardly ever in the mood for more. On days that I lift heavy weights, I have to force myself to eat a little heavier, otherwise I'm not able to lift as much. Sometimes/rarely I feel hungrier in the morning, and I just listen to my body and eat more on those days.

On days that I know I will splurge because of an event, I have recently found that fasting is much much more effective at reducing my calories than going to the event not hungry, because I tend to eat a similar amount whether I've eaten before or not. Going in and refusing to eat, or vowing to eat less doesn't work very well because either I cave, or I get all sorts of odd questions about why I'm "starving" myself etc. that I don't feel like dealing with. Not that fasting before doesn't mean I don't make good choices, but I can eat more than I would on a typical day without worrying. If I am ravenous, I can just eat an apple to calm down the beast before going in and still be confident I will make healthy choices even when faced with tempting foods

This daily 14 hr fast is intriguing to me. I will have to read up more on it and may try it instead of having that small "meal/snack" about 10 except for lifting days. It sounds like my body will adapt. My main goal is to maintain/gain muscle mass and be healthy, and it does sound like that has many benefits without sacrificing those goals (which is what many people probably think of when they think of fasts: ie fasting=starving oneself)

[serendipity907]

I really like this approach, and I wish it was more recognized as much as the small meals every few hours.

Sometimes I have definitely abused this kind of thing purely as an excuse for dysfunctional eating patterns, but when done properly I think it's great.

The thought of eating 5-6 smalls meals every day fills me with dread. I think about food nonstop anyway, I can't do eating every few hours! Definitely around 2pm-7pm for me, but with plenty of water early morning Also definitely prefer eating larger quantities of food instead of small meals.

[mkendrick]

Originally Posted by serendipity907

I really like this approach, and I wish it was more recognized as much as the small meals every few hours.

Sometimes I have definitely abused this kind of thing purely as an excuse for dysfunctional eating patterns, but when done properly I think it's great.

The thought of eating 5-6 smalls meals every day fills me with dread. I think about food nonstop anyway, I can't do eating every few hours! Definitely around 2pm-7pm for me, but with plenty of water early morning Also definitely prefer eating larger quantities of food instead of small meals.

I've found that I have the LEAST amount of problems with the desire to overeat, binge, excessively restrict, or plain old obsess over food when I'm doing intermittent fasting. Even when I'm doing weekly 24-hour fasts. I have had brief periods of time where I was excessively restricting (I ate about 500 calories/day for a week), and there is a distinct difference in my mindset and behavior between restricting and fasting. I'm happy and content and calmly in control when I'm doing a 24 hour fast. I'm desperately grasping for something resembling control when I'm restricting.

If anything IF, especially the 24 hr fasts, taught me how to manage my hunger. It helps me understand the difference between brain munchies and true physical hunger. It also shows me that a little bit of hunger isn't going to kill me, and it's not something to fear. When I'm doing a full day fast, I embrace the hunger. I make myself consciously aware of the signals that my body is sending me and how they're different from that nagging "I wanna eat" false hunger feelings. I recognize the fact that yes, I feel some hunger, but it's nothing to be afraid of. And then when I have that meal to break the fast, I savor and appreciate the food. All in all, it's a very positive experience for me.

[krampus]

I am interested in trying this out. I think perhaps part of what has caused me to binge/graze constantly/never stop thinking about eating is the idea of snacks and planned meals and stressing over making sure I eat X at X time. A good indicator for me is how on weekends I am perfectly content to wait until late to eat. Also, in the past I lost weight just fine eating one or two big meals a day and waiting until the afternoon.

We'll see. For now, it's been very educational and encouraging reading about people's experiences with IF. It's an approach I am strongly considering to regulate my ferocious graze urges.

[Monique]

Interesting indeed. Thank you all for sharing your information and experiences. This could be something that may work very well for me. As some of you have mentioned of yourselves, I'm not a morning eater either and I realized that after reading this thread and I remembered all the times I skipped breakfast over the years and it wasn't a big deal to me.

Lately, I've been doing the five meal a day thing which definitely has been helping with maintaining weight but since I haven't been really giving it my ALL....I haven't really seen weight loss because of it yet. I remember years back when I really TRIED...yes, the weight seemed to melt off of me but still, it's always nice to research and try something new and deep down, I'm not really into forcing myself to eat .

Me likey. LOL....I'm gonna go do a little research

Monique

[jendiet]

i agree with mkendrick about the fasting resetting your hunger clock. When i first did this in 2001, i noticed the hunger on my 24 hr fasts, but it didn't really bother me, because i knew i could eat the next day.

i also hate eating small meals...and would feel obsessive about food if i had to...Fast 5 reintroduced me to it with daily fasts. I learned about alternate day fasting through the Bragg books. I also mixed a little bit of honey with acv and water and sipped on it throughout a 24 hr fast. I never felt a lack of energy, like i said i did feel hunger though.

i would also rather sleep than eat breakfast, but if i am eating on a schedule, i am constantly hungry.

i think the hardest part is finding your window. if i let my window go too late, i wouldn't see as good results. With fast 5, you can alternate your eating window too.

i am not sure if it will be ok for my milk supply to do the fast 5 after the baby is born. oh so you know with fast 5, you only eat 5 hours a day.

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by mkendrick

If anything IF, especially the 24 hr fasts, taught me how to manage my hunger. It helps me understand the difference between brain munchies and true physical hunger.

THIS

[indiblue]

Thanks OP and everyone else for your input. You are pretty convincing spokespersons for the IF model. mkendrick you make such a great point about how the concept of eating multiple small meals only induces constant thinking about hunger. As a total foodie I would definitely fall into this category.

It's interesting because the diet world says OVER AND OVER AGAIN that you never want to feel full, you want to just eat until satiated, because the stomach is 20 minutes behind the brain, etc. What it does is leaves us - or at least me- constantly roving and grazing for a little bit of food here and there. I never feel full but I'm definitely eating way more than I should.

In this way, it seems like IF has two major benefits:
1. Extending the length of time for reduced insulin levels, higher percentage of fat burned during the fasting state
2. Reducing the number of calories one intakes by configuring the body's desire to graze/binge.

The second benefit may vary from person to person depending on eating habits, but I may be one of those people for whom it benefits.

Anyway will definitely be playing around with this model. Thanks all, and to katydid for starting this thread.

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by indiblue

It's interesting because the diet world says OVER AND OVER AGAIN that you never want to feel full, you want to just eat until satiated, because the stomach is 20 minutes behind the brain, etc. What it does is leaves us - or at least me- constantly roving and grazing for a little bit of food here and there. I never feel full but I'm definitely eating way more than I should.

Martin does a nice review of a recent study that showed fewer larger meals were more satisfying than many small ones.

[Katydid77]

Originally Posted by indiblue

Additional questions for katy, John, and anyone else who IFs--

1. How strict is the term "fast"? Does it take just one calorie to break the fast, or is intaking a very small number of calories (25? 50?) in the morning still low enough to reap the benefits of lower insulin levels and all the other chemical reactions which occur during a fasting state?

My rule is under 50ish calories, and really nothing 'solid'. Honestly, all I do is drink the hot tea (that has 25 calories) or some zero calorie drink like water, unsweetened tea, etc.

Fluids I don't try to limit at all, but I do watch that the calories don't get really out of whack.

2. The article JohnP posted differentiated between truly sedentary fasting (lying completely still, which requires I think something like 16-18 hours between eating) and real life fasting (14-16ish hours) due to the individual moving around, expending calories, etc. By this logic if I were to exercise moderately for 1 hour in the mornings, could I decrease my fasting time? Or did I misinterpret the relationship between calories expended and the length of the fast?

Thanks in advance, all!

I'll be honest and say that I really don't overthink it. I eat between 4pm and 10pm. Period. Before then, I drink zero calorie fluids and hot tea.

I don't complicate it past that. With my job, several days a week I have to be at work at 5am and work till 3pm. Doesn't change anything. I still eat during the same hours.

Also, because of my work schedule some days I workout early, say 10am, and other days I work out sorta late, say 6pm. Still, doesn't change anything.

I eat when I eat, simple as that.

If, for whatever reason, my eating somehow gets moved around (I had to go out to eat with family the other day at 2pm, for example), I start my 'window' then and end it 6/8 hours later. I still don't overthink it, I just take that and go with it.

I can't tell you the science and be impressive, but I can tell you that it works for me better than anything else ever has.

If it sounds 'do-able' at all for you (you know your own personality) then I would highly recommend that you try it. What do you have to lose??

[indiblue]

Thanks for the article John. Look forward to perusing more on why the six-meal-a-day model became so popular. It definitely caters to my weaknesses.

Katydid, thanks for your experiencing on spacing of meals and how you arrange your window. And yes, I'm already playing around with what works for me. I appreciate your bringing this topic to everyone's awareness!

[Monique]

I'm gonna give it a go starting tomarrow and do it for a week straight and let you all know how it goes. I have a feeling this is going to be a really good thing for me. It'll be like weight has been lifted off my shoulders. No preasure....I eat between 3 and 7 and that's it! That's something I can easily follow.

Monique

[indiblue]

Reporting in after Day One. Well, yesterday I didn't have anything until about 11:30/12 to test the waters, but today I intentionally delayed lunch. Ate nothing, drank nothing except for water until about 1:30 PM. Exercise for 1 hour from 9:45-10:45. I felt FINE, a bit of hunger pains at the end of my workout, but nothing gulps of water couldn't manage.

It was nice to have a larger lunch and dinner. I wasted some of my calories (I'm on a 1200 diet right now) on needless snacking (a handful of cereal and a banana, not that that's bad, I just wasn't hungry enough to need a snack), but I snacked WAY less than I usually do in the afternoon, and on healthier stuff. Look forward to keeping this up.