General Diet Plans and Questions General diet questions, support for various diet plans other than those listed below.

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Old 03-09-2010, 09:20 AM   #1  
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Default Volume v. Calories

I have one serious problem in all my diets... it is called the mega plateau. But I had a thought the other day and wanted to ask about it.

When I hit the plateau, everyone tells me to eat more. And I do. However, most of the food is small calorie intense food. More eggs; More bread, more protein. I have never loved fruits or veggies so I don't immediately go to them when I eat more - I tend to reserve them for diet days. Although I may eat a little more fruits or veggies on a high day. My diet is pretty solid so what tends to get added is the stuff I can't normally have. I notice this never works. I simply gain. And usually hand over foot. I have always noticed that it takes a significant time to get back to normal metabolism. Like 4 months. But usually the problem is that I gain back weight. But I don't get that because I count calories... yet I have to eat a lot to get the metabolism back.

So after a year off of dieting and gaining some weight back (15 of 48) on purpose to get back to the good metabolism, I lost 10 lbs. I am zig zaging and on one of my high days I went way over... and thought I was going to die. My stomach capacity had shrunk. What I could eat pre diet, I could no longer eat.

I had a thought, what if the thing that tells your metabolism to slow is stomach capacity. And that people who eat lots of high volume - low calorie foods on a diet - will keep the metabolism running at full force? Although I am zig zagiing this time, again, that might be the day one candy bar can take all my calories (or if I have a work event - even a few crackers and cheese). These foods, high in calories, do nothing to increase stomach capacity.

I think specifically of Glory87 here and Rockin Robin, who were successful but talk often about eating a lot of volume foods. I also did some googling and noticed that people who participate in food eating contests often will eat mounds of lettuce and cabbage to keep their stomach capacity high. Then I thought of WW's who used to always talk about eating a salad before your meal. The reason was always to "allow you to feel full". For me that never was an issue. I am apparently very good at depriving myself without issues. So if I am not full I am easily able to tell my body to shut up.

So what do you guys think,

If you eat a ton of volume foods when dieting like, cabbage, salad, carrots, water etc... do you hit plateaus?

If you don't eat a ton of that and focus only on calories, which may mean a lot of low volume foods - eggs, bread, nuts, an occasional candy bar / ice cream, shakes, etc.. do you hit plateaus?

If there is another thread on this let me know. I know there is a diet called volumetrics. I have ordered the book.

Thanks.

Last edited by AnnRue; 03-09-2010 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:56 PM   #2  
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In short, No. It is about the energy in the foods that can be used and most high volume foods tend to contain a lot of water. Your body needs the calories to convert the CHOs into ATP for use all over the body...also, the brain specifically requires glucose, not volume. A lot of the reason for protein breakdown is that the body is trying to save all of the glucose for the brain because that is its (almost) exclusive source of fuel.
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:48 PM   #3  
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In my experience, when people follow the advice "eat more (calories)," it often doesn't immediately result in weight loss (and can even cause a temporary gain).

I think the matter of metabolism is far more complicated than is often generally assumed. There are many factors that contribute to the number of calories a person burns, both in voluntary action, and in involuntary activities and bodily processes.

Calories in, calories out - is often used to argue that 1500 calories of candy bars will result in the same loss as 1500 "healthier" calories.

This is an oversimplification because the fuel we choose has an impact on both our consciously controlled actions and the processes over which we have little or no control (such as our body temperature).

I don't think that volume has a direct control over metabolism, but I do suspect that water and fiber intake (the usual source of "volume" in high-volume foods) both do affect metabolism.

In my experience, higher volume foods help spur "extra weight loss" (whether it's by metabolism speed up or not).

I suspect several factors are potentially responsible. Maybe I'm wrong on some of these, but it's my theory and it works pretty well for me

1. Water and fiber help remove waste from the body (the "poo factor"). The more water and fiber I take in, the more I poo, and the less poo I'm carrying around with me. That has to be good, right?

2. When I'm eating more fruits and vegetables, I feel better physically, and am more willing and able to participate in more physical activity. Some of this may be psychological, and some of it may be a direct or indirect reaction to the higher quality foods. Maybe it's not carrying around so much poo (since watching Dr. Oz, has anyone else noticed an increased interest in the subject of poo).

3. Blood sugar. There's a lot of talk about the glycemic index, glycemic load, and "good carbs." I'm not going to rehash the theory here - but I think there's much too it. I do believe that better control of blood sugar/insulin levels do have an impact on feeling better, the body working better, and having more energy for activities (and therefore burning more calories both in voluntary activities and body processes).

4. Body temperature. This may be completely bogus - I haven't kept track long enough to be sure this isn't coincidence - but the better I eat (more vegetables and some fruits, lower-carb in general), the higher my body temperature (so far, it seems). It takes more calories to maintain a higher body temperature (my body temp has been gradually declining since adolescence).

Ultimately, it can't hurt to eat more high-volume, low-calorie foods. At worst, you fill your stomach and will take in fewer calories and feel less hungry doing so (argument enough for me).
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:01 PM   #4  
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Quote:
4. Body temperature. This may be completely bogus - I haven't kept track long enough to be sure this isn't coincidence - but the better I eat (more vegetables and some fruits, lower-carb in general), the higher my body temperature (so far, it seems). It takes more calories to maintain a higher body temperature (my body temp has been gradually declining since adolescence).
That could be true. Many veggies and some fruits are naturally high in calcium and that has been proven to increase body temp. Also they are high in water and water is H2o - presumably water contains oxygen. Which presumably increases metabolism.

Eating more high volume can do some harm. Say for instance I eat only 1200 cals normally (with small low volume / high calorie foods) and can't lose weight on that very reasonably. And I eat more veggies with salad dressing or other non intended calories, if there is no metabolism effect, I am just going backward. I suspect strongly that the difference between the amount of calories I burn and the low end of my eating ability is very small.

I don't happen to find much benefit from veggies or fruits (in fact I think I might be allergic to some fruits) I don't get energy from them. Also because they take a lot of prep time it takes time away from other activities which eventually just leads to less exercising or something. I work pretty long days although I am lucky to have a workplace with a salad bar.

On the other hand, preparing fruits or veggies keeps me so busy I forget to eat anything else. I am so full - very full -- I really don't feel the hunger I used to.

I would also add thinking about this theory that I do tend to start very strong on diets but as days go on, I don't eat unhealthy, but am more likely to get my calories from lean cuisine or nuts or a zone bar, or a food that doesn't involve a lot of preparation -- cutting down volume foods.

So I am trying it. I have the same meals I was eating before but now add a salad or veggie snack around them. We will see what happens. I can report I am already much more full.
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Old 03-10-2010, 11:25 PM   #5  
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I oversimplified when I said it can't hurt to eat high volume - what I meant was that for most folks eating higher volume, while still accounting for calories, usually isn't a bad experiment. More in the line of "it's worth a shot to try."

A sudden increase in volume from fiber, can "hurt" a great deal. I have IBS and if I suddenly increase my produce intake, I end up with some very severe abdominal cramps and digestive issues. It's not dangerous, but it is quite unpleasant (sometimes of the "it won't kill me, but I wish it would," variety).

Every year I "relearn" the lesson to add extra fiber gradually during Ranier cherry season. Usually I follow an exchange plan, but during Ranier cherry season, I switch to regular calorie counting so that I can spend more calories on cherries. Usually I miscalculate how many cherries I can eat without getting sick (and by the time my system is almost used to the cherry intake, the season is over). I always lose some weight during my "cherry diet," but sometimes I end up in some serious pain in the process.

In general, the standard American diet is rather low in fiber and fluids, so for most folks increasing water and fiber (while reducing calories) is beneficial. Doing so suddenly and drastically, may not be the smartest way to do it, especially if a person has digestive issues to begin with, but for most folks getting more volume for their calories is a feasible strategy.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:01 AM   #6  
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Originally Posted by kaplods View Post
A sudden increase in volume from fiber, can "hurt" a great deal. I have IBS and if I suddenly increase my produce intake, I end up with some very severe abdominal cramps and digestive issues. It's not dangerous, but it is quite unpleasant (sometimes of the "it won't kill me, but I wish it would," variety).
I have already felt that. I have a lot of digestive gas all of the sudden. But not so bad that I am having a lot of trouble. But I can be tempted to have an extra slice of bread to calm the stomach and get rid of the gas.
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