No, I'm not necessarily motivated by seats that are tight or uncomfortable--I am frustrated by them. But, I can only be frustrated with myself, not the business who uses normal-sized seating in their establishment. Seeking appropriate accomodations for someone with a wheelchair or hip injury is not the same, IMO, as seeking them for my big fat butt
Exactly how I feel. I USED to voice frustration that clothing manufacturers didn't have a clue about how to make "fat" clothes. Until I realized that *I* was the only reason I had to wear them and that only *I* could change that. Only *I* could make myself feel more comfortable on an airplane or in an airplane restroom.
Someone who has been injured and CANNOT walk, I can understand accomodating. Someone overweight, even if it runs in their family or is due to medications they are on, can STILL control their weight. It may be more difficult. Heck, it's more difficult for all of us here compared to someone who's never been overweight. We now have a geater propensity for gaining weight than they do. Yet many businesses will accomodate because it's in their best interest. I just can't agree with forcing them to accomodate a population that has the power to combat their "affliction", when they don't benefit from it.
I too suffered yo-yo diets where everytime I stopped dieting, I'd gain the weight back plus more. I was raised in a household that lived on beans and potatoes. Who believed in "If you don't eat everything on your plate, it will rain and you can't play outside." Through my teen years, my family discovered a love of buffets. Mom never allowed me to be too active as I'd been born with heart defects and had had open heart surgery. Phys ed teachers would make me sit down when my face turned red from exertion. Do I think I had a choice to get overweight? Yes and no. No in the sense that it was a learned behavior. Yes in the sense that we can unlearn behaviors but only we can take the initiative, find the willpower, and inform ourselves, arm ourselves, and learn how to undo what was done.
An example is, I was molested as a child. Much of what I did in my adult life was shaped by that. It took time for me to heal and learn how to deal with it. Some people will deal with it earlier, or become stronger because of it. I became stronger, but long after it had had it's hold on me. I had to finally decide I'd had enough and wanted to change me. It wasn't my choice to go through that. But it WAS my choice to work on the way I was dealing with it. It WAS my choice to stop letting it run my life. It was also my choice to work hard at unlearning bad eating behaviors. And I'm still working on them. I might be working on them for the rest of my life. But I CAN because I've decided to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andoreth
I've never really been a believer that debate can ever or will ever convince the participants (on either side) of anything at the time of the debate- they just have too much wrapped up in their points of view, to much of their personal histories filters how they look at the subject, and lets face it, egos can get involved which always makes it hard for anyone to reach out a conciliatory hand to the opposite side and look for common ground.
Debate is really for the non-participants, the people reading the posts or listening to the words who might not have already invested in an opinion to the extent that they can't "hear" both sides without those filters.
Yup. I think it's also for the participants in the sense that it reinforces the reasons they believe what they do and provides a sense of some type of accomplishment in voicing those reasons effectively. Seldomly however, I have seen a few heads swayed when someone felt differently after receiving facts they weren't aware of, but it's exremely rare.
YOU CAN'T LEAVE US NOW! YOU STARTED A GREAT THREAD HERE DEAR ~ ALREADY YOU HAVE ALMOST 100 REPLIES AND ALMOST 1,400 VIEWS ~ GOOD FOR YOU
I think you got a lot of people thinking here and sharing their ideas. Don't be soo hard on yourself! What ever works for you is what YOU should do! We all don't see eye to eye ~ but sharing ideas help us all to look at ourselves a little closer. Heck, you and I like Steak and Shake but your DH doesn't (OK~ maybe he is smarter than us! )
BRIDJETFAN~ I keep seeing posts by you that say eating healthy and exercise can still lead to obeseity ~ I am confused
Is there a medical condition here that I am not aware of?
To anyone who isn't aware, you can exercise, eat a healthy diet and still be morbidly obese.
Certainly you can. But does that mean if you exercise "more" and eat "less" of a healthy diet, at some point, you can't eventually start losing some of the weight? Heck I can eat healthy and not lose a pound. Because I eat "too much". I can exercise and not lose too. Have done it before. Been completely stalled out. And had to increase my exercise up to 1 1/2 hours per day (vigorous) before a loss began again. As long as I keep exercising and eating right, I don't gain, but unless I do enough of the first and lesser of the latter, I don't lose either.
To anyone who isn't aware, you can exercise, eat a healthy diet and still be morbidly obese.
For once, I agree with Gary--I'm wondering if there is a medical condition leading you to this conclusion.
Also, as almostheaven mentioned, yes, you can eat healthy foods and still be overweight or even gain weight if you're eating too much of them. I could eat 4000 calories of fruits and veggies a day and I would gain weight because it's just too many calories for my body. I could exercise 3 hours a day and still not lose or even gain if I am eating more calories than I am burning off. Or I could do 3 hours of the same exercise every day for months on end--eventually, doing that routine would no longer be a challenge for my body, and I wouldn't burn as many calories doing it. No one here ever said losing weight was easy--it's a lot of trial and error before you find that perfect balance for your individual body.
I'm not bailing, I jus had to take a big breather. I realized I was getting too worked up, and too emotional regarding an issue I am extremely passionate about. Defending my position, was starting to feel a little too personal, because it's so wrapped up in what I have workes so hard to overcome and the person I have worked so hard to become.
I do not feel sorry for myself, or blame everything (or anything) or everybody for my weight or any of the problems in my life. I learned to laugh at myself early in life, if only to beat others to the punch. While I was never outstandingly popular, I was always at least "second string," popular because in my school, honor students were generally at least in the middle strata of the pecking order. Nearly everyone liked me because I was hilarious, usually at my own expense. But there was so much I didn't do, because I was overweight. I put my life on hold, postponing so many of the joys in life until I lost all of the weight. And I believe it's the putting your life on hold, and lacking a social support that keeps so many of us in unhealthy behaviors and behavior cycles.
When you really feel you have nothing to look forward to, it's really hard to see the point in exercising (if you could muster the energy), or in passing up the instant gratification of comfort food.
I understand that depression. Depression is disabling (maybe in a way people who cannot be sympathetic to the disability of obesity, might be able to be sympathetic to). Morbid obesity is disabling. Some may say (and maybe it's true in some cases) it is a self-imposed disability (not unlike a drunk driver becoming wheel-chair bound). For some, it may even be a temporary (but not short-term) disability. But it is a disability, nonetheless. I would like to say I understood the lack of compassion, but I don't. So how can I continue to argue against it?
I think it's ironic that the point has made that it is somehow "different" if the accomodation is being made for someone with different (better?) disability. Especially since the accomodations are generally the same. I cannot get into a booth, neither can many people with mobility and pain issues not related to obesity. The larger or armless chair I need, is the SAME chair my thin mother-in-law needs. There is no reason for restaurants not to use seating that would accomodate more customers, in my oppinion (By the way, handicapped bathrooms are a JOKE, nearly no handicapped persons can actually use most of them. My father-in-law has so many horror stories, I cannot enter a public restroom without thinking of him). And as for not seeking out establishments that meet my needs, the alternative is not to go. This doesn't only affect me, but family and friends who want to include me in outings. I am much more embarrassed for them than for myself, when I must explain at the restaurant that I cannot fit into a booth (and when I mean I cannot fit, it isn't just that I can't fit with comfort, there are many times when there is no physical way to squeeze me into such a small space).
Maybe in a year, I will be able to fit into a booth - but maybe my fibromyalgia will get worse and I will be thin and unable to get into a booth.
I don't rant and rave when businesses do not accomodate me. Neither do my in-laws, we simply leave and find someplace where we feel comfortable. This doesn't encourage me to stay fat, any more that it discourages my mother-in-law from taking her pain meds, doing her physical therapy, or just having her hip replaced.
<<<Yet at work when a few people noticed and found out about my efforts they actually threw a surprise party when I lost 50 pounds... and brought all kinds of fruit and veggies to celebrate, and made a special card to cheer me on. >>>> By Misti in Seattle
This is so nice to hear! That is just wonderful that they are helping to celebrate your accomplishments. So many people are afraid to acknowledge the loss for fear of offending..." who was fat?..I was fat? NOOOOOOOO!"
I think it's ironic that the point has made that it is somehow "different" if the accomodation is being made for someone with different (better?) disability. Especially since the accomodations are generally the same. I cannot get into a booth, neither can many people with mobility and pain issues not related to obesity. The larger or armless chair I need, is the SAME chair my thin mother-in-law needs. There is no reason for restaurants not to use seating that would accomodate more customers, in my oppinion (By the way, handicapped bathrooms are a JOKE, nearly no handicapped persons can actually use most of them. My father-in-law has so many horror stories, I cannot enter a public restroom without thinking of him). And as for not seeking out establishments that meet my needs, the alternative is not to go. This doesn't only affect me, but family and friends who want to include me in outings. I am much more embarrassed for them than for myself, when I must explain at the restaurant that I cannot fit into a booth (and when I mean I cannot fit, it isn't just that I can't fit with comfort, there are many times when there is no physical way to squeeze me into such a small space).
Look at it this way. When I go to a public restroom and there's no baby changing station, or it's tucked inside a stall (and not the large handicapped one - Ruby Tuesdays in Barboursville does this) should I get upset that they didn't accomodate parents with small children? What about dads who need a changing table and many men's restrooms still don't carry them? They either make do or stop going there. If the business suffers a loss because of people stopping coming there they will grow to accomodate those people. If they don't suffer a loss, why should they be forced to accomodate them? I feel like it's their choice to have a child...my choice to have one. It was my choice to not start doing something about my weight when I noticed my jeans first getting tight on me, to decide not to work very hard at losing the weight left over from my first pregnancy. Even if I'd been overweight as a child, once I reached a level of consciousness that allowed me to realize I was overweight and needed to do something, even if it was simply too difficult for me to handle, it would still have been my choice not to try. So I just don't see forcing them accomodate every single thing about every individual. We can accomodate businesses right out of business if everyone wants their specific needs met. Anyway, JMHO.
This is so nice to hear! That is just wonderful that they are helping to celebrate your accomplishments. So many people are afraid to acknowledge the loss for fear of offending..." who was fat?..I was fat? NOOOOOOOO!"
For sure! And most of the people who did this are very thin; a couple battle their weight but nothing like I do!
So I just don't see forcing them accomodate every single thing about every individual. We can accomodate businesses right out of business if everyone wants their specific needs met. Anyway, JMHO.
I agree! However, isn't it interesting that restaurants are among the worst for trying to stuff customers into tiny booths... yet at many of them ALL they serve are humungous portions of unhealthful foods... which will make their customers FAT FAT FAT?
It's interesting... reading the last few pages of this discussion you'd think that the worst thing that ever happens to a fat person is that they go into a waffle house when the counter is busy and find they don't fit in the booth.
Is that really the end all and be all of our existance? Am I the only one who finds this a little bit odd? I don't think that restaurant owners are the fat person's worst enemy, I don't think that anyone does as much damage to us as we do to ourselves, and I'm not talking about the unhealthy eating and the lack of exercise.
I'm talking about the hours spent not going to parties or dances because no one would want to ask us to join them anyway, the swims not taken at the beach because we won't wear a swim suit, the time not riding a bike because of how we'd look on it, the binges because "no one cares anyway", the secret feedings because of shame about food, the bulema, the laxitives, the 300 cal/day diets because we "have to lose the weight NOW", the many good starts aborted because "what difference will it make anyway", the depression, the anger, the fear...
Someone going through the drive-thru so they can buy 2 dinners for themselves and eat it in their car isn't really concerned about the seats inside.
This is the battle that I see the movement fighting, these are their biggest enemies- self-hatred, depression and shame. If there are people here who have managed to negotate the life of a fat person without the baggage that goes along with it (I actually consider myself one), fine, all the power to us, but I don't think that it means that we can turn a blind eye on those who have taken the messages that society teaches us about fat people to heart. And I don't think that the fact that some restaurant owner somewhere might be asked by some fat person for armless chairs to accomodate a wider range of customers causes that owner such pain and anxiety to negate the good work that they do to help people feel better about themselves, and perhaps break the cycles that keep them fat.
Someone here is going to have to convince me that shame and depression are really the best motivators for long-term, permanent weight loss before I'll believe that a group isn't needed to assure fat people that they are valuable and worth the lifetime of effort they will have to go through to live a healthy lifestyle.
For me that is also the point. Not that businesses be forced to make accomodations for everyone, fat people, parents, or even persons in wheelchairs, but that we acknowledge the irrational aspects of our culture's fear and hatred of fat.
We are our own worst enemies, in many cases. Our fears of what people will do or say to us, are much greater than reality often bears out. But those fears are so universal in our culture, that they are not only coming from the inside. We are taught to feel this way by the images we see and hear. The messages being proclaimed by vocal members of fat acceptance movement, even on issues where they are (in my opinion), very WRONG, at least provide an alternative message. In fact, since society is so biased against fat (and yet so reinforcing of a fat lifestyle), perhaps only the extreme messages can pull us a tiny bit towards the middle.
Although my worst enemy has always been myself, I didn't invent the fears and shame that kept me back, I internalized the messages society gives us. Look at the television ads we are bombarded with. Fast food ads on one hand, and weight loss ads on the other. Look at a Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem, or Dexatrim ad, and you see women wh are shouting the praises of losing enough weight to finally wear a bathing suit, or be worthy of male attention, or not be shaming their own children (though they may be bragging that they lost as little as 8 lbs). These advertisements reflect the beliefs that people already hold, or they wouldn't be effective. Isn't it sad that anyone should be so traumatized by 8 lbs that they deprive themselves of experiences that are not only enjoyable, but the basic needs of human existence?
It isn't that I am expecting to be told to focus NONE of my life energies into reducing my weight in specific, and healthier lifestyle habits in general, just that I believe I should NOT be expected to focus everything I have on losing weight so that i can finally become acceptable.
This has been an interesting thread to read. I am the former skinny kid who was always called puny by relatives. Now I'm 235 and miserable. Not over my weight but my health in regards to it. It's not like I decided to mushroom up like my nasty female relatives. Health, medication and other issues played into it. But if I have to heard one more time how my sister in law is so skinny now. (GASTRIC BYPASS) I'll scream. I don't have the money or insurance to do that. I have a husband though that loves me whatever size I am. He says it's not on the outside it's what's on the inside that he loves so my size isn't an issue with him. He's lost 40 lbs in six months working outside now but has never razzed me over it.
YOU STARTED A GREAT THREAD HERE DEAR ~ ALREADY YOU HAVE ALMOST 100 REPLIES AND ALMOST 1,400 VIEWS ~ GOOD FOR YOU 
)
=kaplods]Don't worry Gary!
