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Old 07-12-2006, 09:14 PM   #166  
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Originally Posted by kaplods
Jen has a point. If you had thought about it - she would not be here on this site if she had decided that "happy the way I am," meant she intended to make no changes in her lifestyle.
Okay, this is the last time I'm going to REstate that I misinterpreted that statement--so shoot me, people! I admitted it, thanked for the clarification, and then AGREED (multiple times) with ending fad dieting. Again, what more do you people want from me? I DON'T HAVE THE BLOOD YOU CRAVE! (sorry, cartoon reference )
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:31 PM   #167  
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Actually, Jill, I have room to appologize as well. I let frustration get to me a bit and actually missed the point on your second post that you were actually giving a mia culpa (shows how we are all equally susceptable to mis-interpretation and judging a whole passage from it's first statements).

I didn't mean to hit you over the head...
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:53 PM   #168  
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I didn't mean to hit you over the head...
I've survived worse

I think at this point, if this thread has helped anyone in any way (like me with my McD's habit )--even if by only reaffirming one's own convictions; perhaps encouraging some innocent standby readers to have more pride in oneself; providing a better insight/understanding to the opposing view; or even by just giving someone a good chuckle at seeing a debate get so heated (as I know I have done with debates in which I am not directly involved)--then misunderstandings aside, we've done some good here
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:04 PM   #169  
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Assuming obesity is a choice (which I do not). How do we determine how much of a disability is caused or contributed to by "choice?" If a person with disabling liver disease aquired it from alcohol use or sexual contact (choices), are they not "worthy" of assistance either. What about lung cancer patients who continue to smoke? Various cancers have been attributed to life choices, do we only assist those who can prove they did not contribute to their own illness, or can prove they are now engaging only in behaviors that are optimally healthy?
I feel like obesity is just as much a choice as smoking and alcoholism. People aren't "born" fat, they either learn to get that way, they're taught bad habits, or they pick them up along the way. Then there are those that may have a higher sensitivity towards becoming obese, due to medications or genes, or whatever. Just like some may have a higher sensitivity towards becoming addicted to alcohol.

Should we assist them? Yes. Should we continue assisting them (ie the cancer patients who continue to smoke)? IMO, if they're offered help in stopping smoking, and their cancer is treated, yet they refuse to even try, don't want the help with smoking, blow it off, then no. I think we should stop the assistance when someone is bent on destruction.

And in all such cases, I still don't think we should order businesses to cater to any of them. Businesses who can and will profit from it, will. Those who can't, can't. Whether we order it or not. They'll go out of business first. And that helps no one.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:12 PM   #170  
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Originally Posted by Misti in Seattle
Oh you are sooooooooooooooooooo right! For most of my adult life I have been overweight but was still very energetic and able to do most thing. Then the 50s hit! Mega joint pain, difficulty climbing the 3 flights of stairs to my apartment, ending up staying home often because it was just too difficult to go places... plus blood pressure starting to skyrocket and, to top it off, a huge thyroid tumor which fortunately turned out to be benign in spite of initial tests showing malignancies. I began to realize that if I did not get this weight off I was going to end up disabled... just from being FAT.
I was heading the same way. I had daily backaches, knee pains to the point that I avoided stairs all the time. I often wore a knee support just to keep my knee from buckling. My knees pop, crack and creak and I already have arthritis in them.

But since I have gotten the weight off and have strengthened up my joints with exercise and calcium supplements for a few years now, they're much better. I still have the arthritis, they still pop. But they don't ache all the time, I don't need to wear a support, and I haven't had a really good backache since I was like 7 or 8 months pregnant. I also haven't had a cold or flu (knock on wood). I do wear supports now on both knees when I run just to protect them from further damage.

It's really never too late to lose. The earlier the better. Heck, it's good if we never get overweight in the first place. But then we wouldn't be here talking about it. But losing the weight will help with the ailments that crop up. We can wait until it's too late to reverse the damage. But it's never to late to ease the damage, and the wear and tear on our bodies.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:41 PM   #171  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostheaven
Should we assist them? Yes. Should we continue assisting them (ie the cancer patients who continue to smoke)? IMO, if they're offered help in stopping smoking, and their cancer is treated, yet they refuse to even try, don't want the help with smoking, blow it off, then no. I think we should stop the assistance when someone is bent on destruction.
I"m not sure if you are talking just about ill individuals who survive death and then refuse to even try to correct the issue that caused or ascerbated the problem, or if you are trying to tie it into the main theme of this discussion. If the former, I'd say that social and medical abandonment seems a harsh punishment for the crime of addiction, fear and the loss of hope. If the latter, I'm going to have to harken back to Colleen's point about pulling the tiny percentage of what might exist in some corner of reality and then magnifying that into a justification for making assumptions about a whole class of people being unfounded.
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Old 07-12-2006, 10:42 PM   #172  
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Oh ya I agree about the knee popping and pain, etc... especially since I have one knee that doesn't work quite right anyway from an old injury. Even with my 51 pounds lost I can tell a huge difference, even though I still have 77 pounds to go! It IS worth the sacrifice!!
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Old 07-13-2006, 02:36 AM   #173  
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I'n also sorry Jill,

I am also starting to lose track of what is being said and in what context.

This has been a really great "food for thought" thread. Looking back on some of my posts, at some points in the argument I wonder if I would have argued from "the other side," if a different direction had been taken, or if I had had different life experiences. I also wonder how I would have respoded 15, 10, or even 5 years ago.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:45 AM   #174  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybean720


I think at this point, if this thread has helped anyone in any way (like me with my McD's habit )--even if by only reaffirming one's own convictions; perhaps encouraging some innocent standby readers to have more pride in oneself; providing a better insight/understanding to the opposing view; or even by just giving someone a good chuckle at seeing a debate get so heated (as I know I have done with debates in which I am not directly involved)--then misunderstandings aside, we've done some good here
I second this.

And you know, girls, fiercely defending your ground HAS to burn some extra calories And I couldn't imagine the ferocity in which you pounded on your monitors and banged on your keyboards (definite calorie burners)

Good debate, everyone. I think both sides are very well represented and well argued. Here's to the next one (if this one is even over . . . )

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Old 07-13-2006, 04:22 AM   #175  
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How many calories do you think ferocious typing burns?
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:22 AM   #176  
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Originally Posted by kaplods
How many calories do you think ferocious typing burns?
hmm, ya know, I am down 3 pounds on my scale this morning from yesterday morning...

Heck, there are even people who say that thinking hard burns more calories (all those firing neurons or whatever), so maybe even those who didn't post but only read and contemplated burned a few extra
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:37 AM   #177  
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LOL all of us would have probably lost a lot more weight if we had been pounding the pavement instead of our keyboards.
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:09 AM   #178  
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Yeah, I was also thinking about this "unexpected benefit" of the debate. I'm pretty sure that while in the middle there I missed a few of my smaller meals, and I know that I walked/jogged just a little bit faster, lifted a little bit harder. Certainly seems to have paid off over here as well, with another 4 lbs down.

I was already kind of wondering if I could come up with some sort of controversial topic of conversation and start another thread!

"Dog owners are happier than cat owners!"... no..."Peanut butter should be banned from all places on the planet"...hmm..."Grade school PE classes and recess should be replaced with gym memberships!"...

uhh, maybe I'll just let enough be enough...
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:36 AM   #179  
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Since we've all ended on a positive note I will close this thread so we can move on to another topic.

This thread was interesting and insightful - thanks to everyone who participated!
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