Food is meant to be a joy and pleasure in life. Something to be enjoyed in balance and moderation. Moderation does not mean extreme limitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrinkingchica
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how 2 cupcakes a month is going to ruin a child's health or screw with their weight.
Moderation... pleasure in life.. yes I agree. But this is not a reality at our school nor at many schools.
Birthdays, holidays (Halloween, Christmas, Valentines Day,.. ) we are surrounded by junk food. Not just cupcakes.. the whole jamboree.
Breakfast at our school is little more than overly processed junk with an occassional piece of fresh fruit. (believe me the fruit is NOT the norm), lunch.. I've already clearly stated how disgusting the choices are, dinner? more of the same as our lunch menu. Add this to the junk that is brought in. And fundraisers that we do. And treats that parents, PTA, and teachers offer,..
It is not about an occassional cupcake treat. IT is our reality everyday.
(...regarding) homemade items brought to the school. We don't know how clean the environment is...
Actually, aside from the allergy issue, this is what really worries me the most about home-made treats brought into school. Or into the office, for that matter. For example, I know lots of people love their pets, but it gives me the creeps to think that the guy who brought in brownies lets his cat freely walk all over the kitchen counters. Or the kid who made the cupcakes sampled the batter with her unwashed finger. Several times. Or the woman who made the salad (ahhhh healthy!) never washes her hands after using the restroom.
I try not to obsess over stuff like that, even though it DOES cross my mind. Especially if I know the person well enough to know their hygiene practices (or lack thereof). I try to remember that there is a reason why we have immune systems and honestly, we can handle a lot more unsavory gunk than we like to think about. Except, of course, for the allergic reactions.
Actually, aside from the allergy issue, this is what really worries me the most about home-made treats brought into school. Or into the office, for that matter. For example, I know lots of people love their pets, but it gives me the creeps to think that the guy who brought in brownies lets his cat freely walk all over the kitchen counters. Or the kid who made the cupcakes sampled the batter with her unwashed finger. Several times. Or the woman who made the salad (ahhhh healthy!) never washes her hands after using the restroom.
I try not to obsess over stuff like that, even though it DOES cross my mind. Especially if I know the person well enough to know their hygiene practices (or lack thereof).
Oh man...I have tears after that post.
I completely agree. I have a cat, and she KNOWS she can sleep on the beds-but that under no circumstance is she allowed to walk on the sink vanities, or on any of the kitchen countertops, kitchen table, etc. I have been to homes where people let their cats do this, and all I can think is "15 minutes ago those paws were covering her doo in her litter box". I might as well go clean the litter box, and go make the cupcakes myself without washing my hands first-it is essentially the same thing.
Man, that cracked me up. I thought I was the only sick who thought like that.
Actually, aside from the allergy issue, this is what really worries me the most about home-made treats brought into school. Or into the office, for that matter. For example, I know lots of people love their pets, but it gives me the creeps to think that the guy who brought in brownies lets his cat freely walk all over the kitchen counters. Or the kid who made the cupcakes sampled the batter with her unwashed finger. Several times. Or the woman who made the salad (ahhhh healthy!) never washes her hands after using the restroom.
I try not to obsess over stuff like that, even though it DOES cross my mind. Especially if I know the person well enough to know their hygiene practices (or lack thereof). I try to remember that there is a reason why we have immune systems and honestly, we can handle a lot more unsavory gunk than we like to think about. Except, of course, for the allergic reactions.
*Shudders* I agree. I even get kinda freaked out even eating at restaurants sometimes.
Talk about skivishness, I NEVER ONCE had so much as a single food item from a cafeteria at school ever (not even a fry) because I was so ickified out by it all and the food that they were serving (and I only ate at my college cafe a handful of times out of pure necessity).
When there's so many things in this world to eat, why allow kids to bring a food to school that could cause the death of a fellow student? They can eat those things at home!
It can only cause the death of a fellow student if they are in close proximity (in extreme cases) or if the student allergic to it actually eats it (and that shouldn't be happening - it's not meant for them). I wouldn't even have a problem with having severe allergy students take a different lunch time or sit in a different area (see below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonniebelle
Someone in our family bought the ready-to-bake Oatmeal Raisin sliced cookies, never realizing there was ground nuts in the cookie batter, and my granddaughter almost ate one! Someone could easily do that, bringing them to school for a class, never having read the label very carefully.
See? You can't even police it perfectly. Not everyone is going to read labels so copiously. Because? They don't have any problems with the ingredients. Someone else, whom they are not intended for, has the problems. It should be up to that person, and their parents/teachers, to insure they are aware of their problems and that they police the foods they consume more thoroughly. I'd feel as bad for the student who was likely made to feel guilty about something they were not aware of, made to feel as if they purposely did something to harm someone, as I would for the child who got sick from accidentally ingesting something they were allergic to. I'm glad your granddaughter didn't eat one. But could you tell me why it was "almost" and not that she actually did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonniebelle
(At my granddaughter's school, they have a separate table for allergic children, which makes them feel *different* .... sadly.)
Kinda like having a separate school for the blind. They undoubtedly feel very different. But it has a lot to do with the fact that they are. As a child, I was born with heart defects and was in and out of hospitals until I finally had corrective and life-saving surgery. I could not join in sports and games with other children. If I ran, my mother yelled at me. My face would start to get red and the gym teacher would rush me to the nurse and make me sit out the class...even though I insisted I felt fine. I don't think it stunted my growth any, nor made me feel so out of place. It was simply a fact of life, I got used to it, learned to deal with it. I was different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less of Lena
Regarding nut allergies, I'm fencewalking again. On the one hand, I ask if this is something new. Surely people have had nut allergies since the dawn of humans, but it seems to be so much more prevalent now. I don't remember having peanuts banned from the classroom when I was little. If my little classmates had nut allergies, didn't their families just teach the kids themselves to be extra vigilent?
Precisely. When I was little, I also don't remember people suing for spilling hot coffee on themselves and a whole slew of finger pointing that seems to go on today. It's going to get to where no one is going to look at one another for fear of a lawsuit for looking at them wrong. We're scaring our kids, our country, into being afraid of everything. We're banning things to the point of ridiculousness. If one person in a sea of 3,000 has a problem, we tell the 3,000 tough, rather than teaching the one to deal effectively with their problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less of Lena
I guess it has to be a combination of things. One, make absolutely sure the nut-averse kid is 100% aware of his/her condition and make absolutely sure s/he knows how to avoid nuts. S/he is always going to have to live in a world full of nuts, so s/he MUST learn early to keep him/herself safe. S/he can't rely on other people making a nut-free world.
Which is another consideration. By banning them in school, aren't we teaching the allergic child not to worry and be vigilant? They have nothing to worry about, we ban anything harmful to them. So when they get out into the real world, where it's not banned, or even where someone makes a mistake, what then? They haven't learned anything because they've been sheltered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less of Lena
Two, work to minimize nut-exposure in the child's environment. That may mean asking the classroom to keep the nuts out. In addition to keeping the environment safer for the nut-averse child, it will help all the children learn about compassion and how we all should try to make the world safer for everyone.
Or...it could mean asking that they, or the allergic child, eat separately. Showing compassion, and yet a bit of free will on what someone would like to have in their lunch. Some kids go through stages of foods. And if I had a child who was on a PB&J kick, there is no way I'd ban them from having their favorite food for lunch because some other kid couldn't have it. I'd stress that they needed to stay clear of that child while eating it and make sure to wash well before coming in contact with that child again, so as not to carry any of it on them. Compassionate, yet still having the free will for themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Less of Lena
Three, make absolutely sure that the child has an epi-pen and knowshowtouseit. And that the teachers and other school staff know how to use it. Heck, just like CPR (we HAVE all taken a basic CPR class, right?), we should all know how to use an epi-pen.
Yup. My aunt is severely allergic to bees. Grandma never banned her from playing outside though. But all of us were aware, knew what signs to look for, and knew what to do. So the day her lips turned purple and inside out, I was prepared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrinkingchica
Individual parents maybe should take a stand and refuse to bring in cupcakes for their child, but make that their choice. And since this is all about allowing children to make wise choices, then allow them to make choices, period.
I disagree. I had a co-worker who's wife was a naturopathic doctor. Another co-worker picked up their son for them one day when his dad was on a jobsite. She stopped at McDs and was going to get him a shake. He asked "Is that the one with soy?" Ooops. She never did that again. I kept a drawer of snacks. The lady who picked him up had a son who she allowed to have sweets. So he could get in my drawer and get something. However, the other guy's son (who drank soy shakes) was not allowed in my drawer...because he would be tempted to have something he was not permitted to have. His mother would have a cow. He was however allowed natural foods. IE: I would get him a box of raisins from that drawer without him getting in there. He could have those.
See, his parents made the choice. If I had been the teacher in the school having other parents bring in treats and doling them out, it wouldn't have mattered if his parents brought nothing on their day. He'd be sent home that day on a sugar rush from something he'd not been allowed to have but was given anyway...against his own parents' wishes. And that's not right either.
IOW, I don't see it as ok to tell one child they're not allowed to have what their parents permit them to have just because another child can't have it, nor am I ok with telling a child they can have what their parents don't want them having just because other kids can have it. This should be the parents' choice in both.
Or...it could mean asking that they, or the allergic child, eat separately. Showing compassion, and yet a bit of free will on what someone would like to have in their lunch. Some kids go through stages of foods. And if I had a child who was on a PB&J kick, there is no way I'd ban them from having their favorite food for lunch because some other kid couldn't have it. I'd stress that they needed to stay clear of that child while eating it and make sure to wash well before coming in contact with that child again, so as not to carry any of it on them. Compassionate, yet still having the free will for themselves.
Showing "compassion" in my class ... If my students brought lunch to school (which none do), I would be so proud of my class if they all took responsibility for the child who may be allergic to something. Including if possible NOT bringing the food into the class. An allergic child is different.. but aren't we all? In my school we have many physically challenged children who learn right along side more able bodied students. As many problems as our school has one thing I can say is that everyone is accepted and made to feel as "regular" as anybody else.
Showing "compassion" in my class ... If my students brought lunch to school (which none do), I would be so proud of my class if they all took responsibility for the child who may be allergic to something. Including if possible NOT bringing the food into the class. An allergic child is different.. but aren't we all? In my school we have many physically challenged children who learn right along side more able bodied students. As many problems as our school has one thing I can say is that everyone is accepted and made to feel as "regular" as anybody else.
I have no problems with that. They don't bring it into the class. But they can keep it in their locker, or stash it someplace made for lunches, and eat it in a separate location if need be.
I was made to feel as regular as anyone else with my difficulties too. But the entire gym class did not sit out exercise because I was being made to sit out. The teacher worried that I would pass out, he didn't worry about the others doing the same.
I have no problems with that. They don't bring it into the class. But they can keep it in their locker, or stash it someplace made for lunches, and eat it in a separate location if need be.
If you are talking about high school with lockers and such... it perhaps would be different.
But in the case of elementary school .. it is totally different. First of all the "eat in a separate location" at most schools is not any option for most students. They must be supervised and teachers also need at least 30 minutes to eat with other teachers or do what they will with their time. The fact is .. students eat with their classmates in a designated area. At least at every school I have ever been to. Imagine a 5 year old eating next to someone who is allergic to what he is eating.
I have a problem with the banning a food because a very small minority of children are allergic. I'm all for working with that child's parents, making special classroom arrangements, etc. But BANNING one of the most common lunch staples? That just isn't a reasonable solution in my opinion. Peanut butter is one of the few things that keeps well unrefrigerated. So, what is the majority to do? Risk food poisoning from eating a turkey sandwich that has been stuffed in a hot locker for 4 hours? I know, I know it isn't likely...but neither is an allergic reaction if proper procedures are followed. (And, yes, I know there are insulated lunchboxes today but that doesn't mean every student uses one).
I understand the, "if it were your child you'd be for it" mentality. But, you know what? If my child could DIE from a whif of peanut butter it would be MY responsibility to protect him from that allergy and make any necessary adjustments - even if that meant having him taught at home until I was certain that he was mature enough to recognize dangerous situations and avoid them.
I can only hope that most people in positions of authority in our schools are kind, compassionate, and intelligent people who are wise enough to do what's in the best interest of ALL children, not just what the majority might want and find convenient.
I understand the, "if it were your child you'd be for it" mentality. But, you know what? If my child could DIE from a whif of peanut butter it would be MY responsibility to protect him from that allergy and make any necessary adjustments - even if that meant having him taught at home until I was certain that he was mature enough to recognize dangerous situations and avoid them.
Just a hypothetical scenario, but I do know of someone who has been in this exact situation. Say you have a reason/need to fly on an airplane-such as a funeral of a family member who lives a few states away, and your child must go with you. You also have a child who has a severe nut allergy. Would you skip the funeral altogether, would you drive for 16 hours in the car with this child to avoid the plane, or would you call ahead and inform the airline that your child needs to be on this flight-but has a severe nut allergy and ask that the alternate snack (bags of pretzels) be served, rather than the peanuts?
(Air on planes is circulated over and over...and in that confined space there is high risk of a reaction, even if you and your son do not eat the nuts yourself.)
Someone I know was in this situation, called the airline, and it wasn't nearly the big ordeal that some are making it out to be. They just served the pretzels instead. I think everyone can survive for a couple of hours without a peanut, if it means avoiding pain for another.
Just a hypothetical scenario, but I do know of someone who has been in this exact situation. Say you have a reason/need to fly on an airplane-such as a funeral of a family member who lives a few states away, and your child must go with you. You also have a child who has a severe nut allergy. Would you skip the funeral altogether, would you drive for 16 hours in the car with this child to avoid the plane, or would you call ahead and inform the airline that your child needs to be on this flight-but has a severe nut allergy and ask that the alternate snack (bags of pretzels) be served, rather than the peanuts?
(Air on planes is circulated over and over...and in that confined space there is high risk of a reaction, even if you and your son do not eat the nuts yourself.)
a) I'd ask that alternate snacks be available. b) I'd take an epi pen in case someone brings their own bag of nuts on board. But a school building is not a confined space with recirculated air. Precautions can be taken without "banning" people from bringing in what they choose to eat.
And Bonniebelle, I consider myself to be a perfectly intelligent individual. Just because I disagree with compassion meaning that everyone has to stop living rather than work "with" people with medical problems, doesn't make me any less intelligent.
If you are talking about high school with lockers and such... it perhaps would be different.
But in the case of elementary school .. it is totally different. First of all the "eat in a separate location" at most schools is not any option for most students. They must be supervised and teachers also need at least 30 minutes to eat with other teachers or do what they will with their time. The fact is .. students eat with their classmates in a designated area. At least at every school I have ever been to. Imagine a 5 year old eating next to someone who is allergic to what he is eating.
And there is only one teacher to supervise? Can they not break them up into two groups and anyone with nut lunches eat with one group and those with nut allergies eat with the other?
If I understand correctly, Almostheaven, in many cases in many schools, there just aren't enough teachers to do what you've proposed. In addition, I'm guessing the nut-averse population isn't THAT high -- maybe 1 in 25? Total guess on the numbers, but you get the idea.
For school kids, andfor many adults, lunch isn't just about the food. It's a time to relax and socialize. And for kids, learning to socialize is vital and lunch (and recess) are good times to practice what they're learning. They're learning how to mix and fit in and all that.
Now imagine the poor nut-averse kid who has been shuttled off to an isolated corner, or maybe even shunted into the nurse's office, alone or with one teacher. May as well just stamp a big REJECT on her forehead. If we're trying to teach "celebration of differences" to our kids, shouldn't we try to incorporate lessons on "accommodation for differences" as well?
I understand peanut butter is a great food. Cheap, stays fresh, no refrigeration needed. It is a must-have for many families. But we need to find a way to also accommodate the needs of those for whom exposure poses a potentially fatal risk.
It's a tough situation.
And wow, look how this thread has morphed from a simple discussion of Classroom Cupcakes!
Oh, Aphil, I agree with you 100%. In the situation you described I would absolutley call the airline. But, that is a ONE TIME situation where my child would be accompanied by ME. It asking hundreds of other people to adjust their behavior for 9 months out of the year. I think that is completely different.
