[MinervaMoo]

I think that most people would have considered me a "tomboy" for most of my life. To me, it was just normal to be me, but I recognize that for a stereotype, I am not very girly. I've gone through multiple phases in my life though, where I had mostly male friends, to absolutely zero male friends, to now having one really good male friend, but mostly female friends. Despite mostly have female friends now, I actually prefer interacting with males, especially at work.

It seems, in my experience, that it is easier and more straightforward working with men. My current job is working with a start-up, and for about a year I was the only woman in management. That suited me fine and I had no problems with my male coworkers in management. Then they hired another woman to fill my job, and I moved on to a different position with the same company. My new role gives me control and oversight with a lot more of the company. But once this new woman came on board, there have been definite differences in the way that our male coworkers interact with us respectively.

This woman is a lot different than me, including being very thin. They are always very "considerate" of her and bend-over-backwards to help her. This is all in contrast to me being told to deal on my own (in my current position and past position). For example, a group of us went out for a working lunch and we sat outside at the restaurant. Where we were sitting, all the men were worried about her being able to sit under the shade and moving the umbrella around so that she wouldn't be uncomfortable. Of course, I sat directly in the sun and no one even glanced at me.

I have never wanted special treatment based on the fact that I am female, but when that umbrella thing happened, I was a little peeved. Another example is that once there was a sign that needed to be taken down from outside our storefront, but I could not physically do it (too short and did not have a ladder). My direct supervisor said he would figure it out, but then demanded that I find a way to get it down. I was able to get it down, but I had to call a friend of mine to bring me a ladder. Fast forward a few months and this other woman is in the same position and needs to get a sign down. However, for her, our supervisor told a male coworker to bring a ladder to her and take it down for her.

When I ask friends and family about why they think this would be a thing, I almost always get the same response. They ask, "Is she pretty?" and when I say "Yes, she is attractive," they say that is why. Which I think is stupid, but I also find it insulting. I do not ever profess to be very pretty, and its reality that not every man will find me attractive, but this response from my friends and family implies that I am not attractive enough to be treated with the same consideration as others. It also makes it all the more difficult to fight my self-hating tendency that started when I got fat.

Sorry, I did not mean to write something this long. I guess I just needed to get it out of my system.

[happy2bme]

Sad to say you'd better get used to this. A lot of men tend to flock to someone they perceive as helpless or attractive and let other women as you have found - fend for themselves, especially if they have done so in the past.

I am out of the work force now but was in a field of management where I was often the lone woman in the room. I have experienced alot of what you describe. You need to build a tough skin and accept things for what they are. Above all else - do what you need to for YOUR CAREER. Don't fall into the trap of mothering or worse yet, being the clean up woman and taking care of things that no one else wants to be bothered with. And accept the fact that there are some men who just get stupid around someone who is thin and good looking. Best wishes in all that you do.

[CallyMay]

I have to admit that this sounds familiar to me. When I was a child, I was growing very fast. I was always slim, but definitely not thin, my mother kept saying I looked athletic. I was definitely not petite, but tall for my age and developed womanly curves relatively early. Back then I noticed how nobody ever believed me when I had any physical problems like headaches (I developed migraines before I even entered primary school) or my knee problems later (my kneecap slid out for the first time when I was 12 and as it happened more and more often, that caused osteoarthritis as well). I just looked too strong and robust for anyone to believe I could have any health problems. When I began to develop psychological problems, I started to diet because I felt like nobody would believe me I was strugling if I didn't lose a lot of weight.
This changed eventually because I stopped growing at age 13 and eventually remained petite, but to this day I don't feel like that and will often try to cope with things on my own and not tell people when I struggle in any way because I still feel like I look so robust that nobody would believe I can't always do everything on my own. When people then treat me differently, like doctors who start me on medication and tell me to begin with a small amount because I'm "so delicate", I always feel like they can't be talking about me.

The sad thing is that those who do not look petite or delicate are always expected to be strong and to cope with anything on their own. And I don't know what you could do to change that because I don't think it is something that can be changed. But I agree with happy2bme, focus on your own career and don't start mothering her.

And maybe it could work out for your advantage sometimes, that you might be seen as being more reliable or more qualified. I have a bit of a disadvantage with my looks these days because (even though I still don't feel it) I seem to be petite enough to look quite a bit younger than I am. When I applied for a job as a business English teacher a few years ago, I was told they couldn't take me for that position because I would be teaching business men and I just looked too young to be teaching them, even though I was qualified. I now teach apprentices who are younger. One day at the tutoring place for kids, I was introduced to a mother who later asked my boss if I wasn't a bit too young to be tutoring kids (I was 29). These are problems you probably won't have, so in the end it could be a positive thing. Still, I really understand that it gets to you that she is treated differently than you.

[MinervaMoo]

Thank you happy2bme and CallyMay for taking the time to comment on my post.

happy2bme: You're correct, of course. And I appreciate what you said--it really kicked me out of my dour mood yesterday, which was a consequence of a work-related problem that I didn't share in the post. I will take-to-heart what you said about not mothering or being the clean up person--especially because I do tend to fall into one or the other more often than I'd like to admit. I never set out to be that person, but it happens all the same; this will be a new goal of mine.

CallyMay: That sounds really frustrating that you were not given a job you were qualified for because of your stature. It really annoys me that things like that happen, but at the same time,I understand that it is the world we live in. It sounds like you have a good job now though.
I also agree (once I think about it logically) that I would rather be considered competent and qualified, rather than helpless. Unfortunately, I have reacted less than logically--I will also definitely have to work on that tough skin that happy2bme advised on!

[caldawg89]

Hi OP, personally, I would rather be seen as a woman who can handle herself and her business, rather than a helpless, delicate little thing who relies on a man's help to do even the simplest tasks! It may have to do with looks, or it could be the vibe that she gives off to these men, but I know how I would rather be seen as.

[MinervaMoo]

caldawg89 I agree with you. I think it was just getting to me because I work hard to get things done correctly and efficiently, while she constantly makes errors and messes things up. I know when I make an error, I get lectured, but when she does, people make excuses for her.

I am letting it go though, because her performance of her job doesn't affect mine, and how people treat us differently is a positive thing. Before I was looking at it like it she had "it" better, but in fact, I would be miserable if people thought I couldn't handle myself or my job. I was definitely not thinking things through. So, thank you for your words!

[CallyMay]

Originally Posted by MinervaMoo

caldawg89 I agree with you. I think it was just getting to me because I work hard to get things done correctly and efficiently, while she constantly makes errors and messes things up. I know when I make an error, I get lectured, but when she does, people make excuses for her.

If you work hard to get things done correctly, people might not be used to you making mistakes, so when you do, it's a big deal. If she makes more mistakes, people might be used to that and not really expect her to get things done correctly.
I had a situation like that when I was working at a car rental agency while I was studying. I often filled in when someone was sick because I had a very hard time saying no. People there were so used to me never saying no that they got irritated at me when I did. With other people it was different because they would say no much more often. It shouldn't be like that, but sadly, it often is.

[happy2bme]

Originally Posted by CallyMay

People there were so used to me never saying no that they got irritated at me when I did.

Yep, that's the part I was trying to warn about. In an effort to be a "can do" kind of person and show I could handle anything thrown at me, I got a reputation for "just hand it off to Happy - she'll handle it.". Which I thought was good and I was proud of that. UNTIL I realized a few years later that while I was spinning my wheels taking care of everyone else's problems and dirty work, the truly "smart" ones were networking - ie. schmoozing, and doing all the lightweight things that tend to advance someone while I got left in the dust. And like CallyMay says, when you wise up and start to say no, all of a sudden you are not a team player or you get criticized. It really was an awakening and not a pleasant one at that. I also felt I would rather be considered strong and capable vs fun and flirty. I hate to say it but there is a balance between competence and the social game.

And CallyMae - I totally agree with you that looking young can definitely be a handicap with the way that people pass judgements without even getting to know you!

Glad I could give you something to think about Minerva - I wish there were more mentors in the work force today.

[novangel]

As a tomboy I can say that they view you as "one of the guys" that can do things on your own, don't take it personal. Not that you're not attractive, but they just look at you different.

I worked in Dentistry for over 15+ years and 9/10 a woman that was attractive was hired over experience. Many Dentists actually admitted to me that they won't work next to an unattractive or overweight woman. That's just the way it is.

[Swinella]

You're competent and capable. You don't need their help. They recognize it and act accordingly. If you projected helplessness, they'd help you too.

Personally, I'll save my damsel in distress moments for when I actually need it.

[shcirerf]

Unfortunatly there is still a lot of bias.

I am not even fat, but, my best co worker is a man. He got an extra 7 days of vacation when he hit his 10 year anniversary. So when I hit 10 years, I asked about an extra 7 days.

The boss "BLEW ME OFF!"

Co worker is a man, I am a woman!

So be it.

I work in a very small place, and our boss does not track or vacation. So, I am getting the extra 7 days anyway.

My coworker is supportive.

[shcirerf]

Some days, things are just what they are.

I am 56, through life, I have found it much easier to work with men than women.

Most men are straight forward, let's get it done.

Too many women in one place, get's way to catty!

[EagleRiverDee]

This is so common that some companies capitalize on it on purpose. There is a local auto parts company in my town that deliberately only hires size 0 hot teen girls. Why? Because the places they stop for pick-ups and deliveries at bend over backwards to help them, carrying stuff to and from their vehicles, etc. This results in less on-the-job injuries for the company.

As a woman who is very average looking (some people have called me ugly, and I never get the "pretty girl" treatment) I understand the frustration from the OP but also bear in mind that those women end up being helpless later in life because they've never had to do for themselves. We won't have that problem.

[EagleRiverDee]

Originally Posted by shcirerf

Unfortunatly there is still a lot of bias.

I am not even fat, but, my best co worker is a man. He got an extra 7 days of vacation when he hit his 10 year anniversary. So when I hit 10 years, I asked about an extra 7 days.

The boss "BLEW ME OFF!"

Co worker is a man, I am a woman!

So be it.

I work in a very small place, and our boss does not track or vacation. So, I am getting the extra 7 days anyway.

My coworker is supportive.

That is awesome.