Ugh, this isn't anymore than a pointless vent. As some of you might already know my mother was a horrible parent, alcohol abuse at one point, abusive, and had no boundaries. Like she would tell me when I was a kid about her cheating on her boyfriends at the time and getting STDs, and her accidental pregnancy and abortion...just stuff not to share with your kid, IMO. It always made me uncomfortable to hear this but she would get mad when I asked her to stop telling me this stuff...
Anyway, she is dealing with some kind of issue, mental illness, personality disorder and doesn't live a normal social life etc. I stopped talking to her about 7 years ago. I spent a long time trying to tell her what was wrong with her, but I finally realized she lacks the insight to ever think she is wrong. She thinks she is perfect and everyone else (all past friends, relationships, jobs, neighbors etc) are all the wrong ones and out to get her. She is just the victim of one horrible person after another.
Anyway, I block her texts with the free option meaning I must renew the block every 3 months or it unblocks. I often forget. I could just change my number, but I've had the same cell for 10+ years. And frankly it would be a HUGE pain.
The part that irritates me the most isn't the texts which I don't always read, sometimes DH will, just because I don't want to. She used to write letters but we've moved and she cant get our address I guess. The annoying part is after all these years she has NEVER apologized. Not once. Unless its like "I'm sorry you don't know how great I always was".
She just texted me to say that I was wrong because I perceived everything she did wrong, and that she always meant well but I took everything she ever did the wrong way.
Ugh. I have actually decided that I would consider talking to her again if she ever apologizes, NOT because I want an "I'm sorry" but because I think it would be a huge sign that she gaining the ability to actually talk and work things out and be a normal person. I have come to terms that she will never be able to do that. She is mentally defective and cannot interact normally or do what normal people do.
But the odd part is, I've walked away from her and she keeps acting like she would do anything to repair our relationship...anything but say she did anything wrong. She wants me to talk to her, but on the terms that I come to her saying that I was wrong and she was always perfect. I think part of it is a control issue. Me choosing not to talk to her, I think she sees that as her losing control. And I think apologizing only leaves her feeling even less in control. Keep in mind this is her with others in her life, and last I've seen she's very lonely/ cant hold a job as this causes conflict at work/ cant keep friends because of how she is.
I just don't get it. If you *want* to re-establish a relationship with someone that has clearly told you why they are upset and what the issues are, wouldn't you start with apologizing. And if you were not willing to apologize/ felt you were 100% right, then wouldn't you just leave that person alone? Why would you keep contacting them to tell them you miss them, please come back but oh by the way, they are the wrong one!! Its so weird! What person in their right mind thinks that will ever work?!??! But I guess I just answered my own question.
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 09-09-2014 at 06:44 PM.
I know you meant well, but I'm going to guess you have no kids. You lived with your mom until she died...
I'm a mother of 3 (soon to be four) my only responsibility is to ensure the well being on my children. Maybe if I had no kids or husband, things would be different.
It is absolutely not healthy to remain in an abusive relationship (with a parent) and its sad you did so and should even suggest I do the same. It would be abusive of me to ever subject my kids and husband to such a toxic person.
I have met people that "choose" to stay with the mentally ill parent. I find it no coincidence that very often those adult children do not have kids or spouse of their own (not always, but more often than not).
I could not sleep at night if I sacrificed my family to continue being abused for another 30 year. No way.
Btw, I did the boundaries thing with the help of therapist. She does not listen. She cannot respect any boundaries.
I am sad that you would suggest I walk back into that mess and bring such awfulness into my children's lives. No decent mother would do that to her kids. I certainly won't.
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 09-09-2014 at 07:52 PM.
I agree that you are doing the right thing by distancing yourself from your toxic mother. Toxic is a good word to describe that type of person. I always reserve the right to terminate negative relationships...psychic vampires who suck all the joy from you. Ugh. I have had to do the same thing with my sister. I realized one day that I hated how talking to her made me feel and started distancing myself from her. My husband's mother is very much how you described your mother. He made the decision to cut her from his life before we met & although he has limited contact with her, he doesn't allow her to see our kids. Boundaries are healthy and often necessary to protect a person from abusive family members.
I just wanted to suggest that in addition to your free call blocking, see if you can set your phone to give her "no ringtone". So at least when your call block expires maybe you will not be disturbed by her calling you before you can get it reset.
The problem is that you are asking her for something she just can't give you. There reaches a point where you are abusing yourself and it isn't your mother.
I was able to make peace with my mother when I realized she was just limited in some ways. I have relationship with her but it's very shallow and usually my sisters are present. But now I am able to enjoy the good parts of her. She is actually fun to shop with and talk celebrity gossip but there is nothing deeper which I am okay with now.
I take issue with you blackmailing her into an apology. She has already told you she doesn't think she is the problem; if someone doesn't think they are the problem why would they apologize? Would your really prefer a fake apology to get you to be quiet? I think you need to stop having expectations of your mother especially since she isn't capable of meeting them. She can't let you go because in her warped mind she loves you. It like men who physically abuse their partners, people like to think of them as monsters but they actually love those women they just have emotional or mental problems that make them incapable of controlling themselves.
I hope my post doesn't sound harsh but your mother sounds exactly like my mother. And I just think you need to realized that she did do her best and that her best was just really terrible!
However, cutting her off might be the best bet unless there are family obligation where you will be forced to have contact with her. If that is the case than having the good, yet shallow relationship with her might be the best bet. I am telling you, if your mother is anything like mine she will turn these family events into fights with you or make snide remarks that will anger you. It better that you have a civil relationship with her but also distant.
I take issue with you blackmailing her into an apology. She has already told you she doesn't think she is the problem; if someone doesn't think they are the problem why would they apologize?Would your really prefer a fake apology to get you to be quiet? .
Did you read my original post?? I don't want the I'm sorry for the apology. And I haven't asked her to say sorry. I think it would show emotional growth on her part; a sign that she is no longer ill. I tried to say that because I had a feeling SOMEONE would read it and hear it as I'm telling her I'll talk to her when she says sorry. I tried to quickly explain that that is not the case, but expected someone to still not get it...bravo for being that person to interpret it that way. I don't think you get it and I don't think your mother is like mine. Mine would not make snide remarks and turn things into a fight. She is the kind of person that smiles to your face and quietly destroys your life while you are looking away.
She has destroyed my brother, I watched it. He is a social cripple, He cannot maintain any relationships because she sabotages them. He still lives at home with his mom and is nearly 30. He is her emotional prisoner. He and I still talk barely, but he hide it from our mom. He does not have any contact with any other family. He says that it makes mom feel bad. She would never be mean to him about it, but she uses guilt and passive aggressive methods to guilt people. My brother feels guilty leaving home and having a wife!!! How sad, his life is all about keeping mother happy. She tells him if he leaves she will kill herself. And so his life is pathetic and empty, and he is sad over it but talks like Steelslady, that he should stay with her, and yet at the cost of his own life. And someday when she dies, and our parents aren't old, she's in her 50s, so he's got a long time, he will realize he is alone and miserable. No one owes anyone that. I would NEVER want my children to do that. No normal parent would.
I know she will never be sorry. She can't. I *think* she is dealing with some kind of personality disorder, that's my opinion.
Its weird that she would keep contacting me to say "talk to me and remember you are wrong". That is insane. No socially competent person would do that to anyone. That's like getting dumped by someone, they have moved on, and you keep calling them to say "I love you and miss you, come back and because everything was your fault"....That would not work on anyone with any self respect. Its actually laughable.
I agree that you are doing the right thing by distancing yourself from your toxic mother. Toxic is a good word to describe that type of person. I always reserve the right to terminate negative relationships...psychic vampires who suck all the joy from you. Ugh. I have had to do the same thing with my sister. I realized one day that I hated how talking to her made me feel and started distancing myself from her. My husband's mother is very much how you described your mother. He made the decision to cut her from his life before we met & although he has limited contact with her, he doesn't allow her to see our kids. Boundaries are healthy and often necessary to protect a person from abusive family members.
I just wanted to suggest that in addition to your free call blocking, see if you can set your phone to give her "no ringtone". So at least when your call block expires maybe you will not be disturbed by her calling you before you can get it reset.
Thank you for understanding that no one must put up with abuse no matter who the abuser is. And I think having children changes a lot and people without kids don't understand that thought process of decisions to keep a toxic person in my life also means keeping them in my kids lives. And I wont do that. I actually cut her off shortly after my oldest was born. And her response was that I had children for the single purpose of taking them away from her. She cannot think outside of her own head. Meanwhile during my pregnancy I attempted to to do mother daughter counseling several times to avoid this, and she refused. I found out later that she never told my brother about that. She never told him all the time I spent trying to repair our relationship. Despite all that, despite the fact that he has told me he knows he is trapped by guilt and blackmail of suicide, that he cannot bring himself to leave her.
I think people that stay in those types of relationships have self esteem issues, likely created by the abuser. Why would anyone with any sense of self worth continue to subject themselves to that?
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 09-10-2014 at 08:56 AM.
I've had to distance myself from a toxic mother, as well... I've watched her destroy too many people because she had to be in control, and reached a point that I could no longer allow myself to be around that.
I think you have to do what's best for YOU, and your children and family. That may truly be not being around this person. If she is TOXIC to YOU, then its not a matter of abandoning her, but protecting yourself.
Would you tell a woman that has been abused by her husband to go back to him because he is obviously mentally ill? No, we tell her to protect herself and her children and run. I think the difference is the close bonds that are generally there between mother and child, so we, as a society, are often appalled when we hear that some one is not speaking to their mother any more. Still, because of that close bond, mothers can do so much damage.
I had a friend in high school whose mother would beat him with a belt until he could hardly walk. Angels spoke to her, and they told her to cut herself with razor blades in front of her children in her car. I wonder if they told her to blame my friend for her suicide attempt while lovingly petting on the other child. She said the most monstrous things to him, and he barely made it out of high school. Even as an adult, he still suffered with a great deal of mental health issues.
Anyway, mother's new husband was dying, and she calls on my friend. I was immediately appalled that he would even speak to her after all she put him through, but he was there by her side while her husband died. And of course, her husband was being eaten alive with painful cancer in his bones, but it was all about her, her, her. She never took care of her husband, and instead used my friend to take of him, but she was just the sweetest and saddest martyr when company came around. After her husband died, my friend was back to being the scapegoat again. He was too big for physical abuse now, but the emotional abuse was constant and sadistic, and what little mental health gains he had made since graduating high school were slowly being deteriorated. And all he wanted, so badly, was love. He would have done anything for her to feel her love, but it wasn't there. She was sick, and she didn't really know how to love. She knew how to control, and she knew what it was like to want some one around and miss them, but she didn't know how to love.
I haven't spoken to him in a year or so now, but I know when I last spoke to him he was close to breaking off contact with her again. And I pray he did. He was a kind, bright and creative person - a spark, really - and when his mother was around, she trashed all of that. She was such a big force in his life, and she could kill his happiness and productiveness in an instant.
Maybe he just wasn't strong enough to not let her continued abuse affect him, but not everyone is. And that is totally okay. More than okay. We can be so clinical from the outside, but until you're in some one's place, really in their place, you don't know what they can do or can't do. Right now you all have set very low expectations for GG's mom, but insanely high expectations for GG.
So GG, I say, your mother sucks. I'm sorry. I wish you didn't have a sucky mother, but since you do, I think you're doing the right thing in protecting yourself and your children. You know what you can do, and that's all you need to know. Keep on keepin' on.
Last edited by Song of Surly; 09-10-2014 at 09:28 AM.
I am so sorry for what you lived thru GG. Trust me, I empathize. In my case it was my father who was [dangerously] abusive and toxic. My mother was abused as well so we were more like prisoners of war with a common enemy. As a result, she wasn't a very good parent, but she was a good person and tried to be a good friend.
My father died of a protracted illness when I was 17. There is no making peace. In fact, my last interaction with him was when I bid goodbye as I was leaving for basic training. He was in the hospital, on a ventilator (unable to speak) and glared at me. When I expressed my confusion he purposely looked down at his free arm. His hand was in a fist, and he was slowly shaking it, as best as he could. I will NEVER understand what he truly meant, but it wasn't "Go get 'em, tiger," that's for sure. Not with that glare of daggers he was giving me. I'm pretty sure he was trying to tell me what he really felt about me. He hated me and wished our positions were reversed.
Flash forward a few years and I've married a man who was my father all over again, just with less physical abuse and more emotional abuse/manipulation. He didn't beat on me, and he never hit our son in front of me. However he damned near tortured the boy when I was at work and threatened my son into silence. I didn't find out until long after the divorce.
My son had every reason on the planet to despise his father and yet he wanted a relationship with him. He gave him every chance in the world and that man threw it back in his face. All my son has ever asked for was acknowledgement of the abuse and an apology. His father has NEVER admitted to what he did, not once. And when my son tried to tell him "that was abuse" he turned it around and said "you were a horrible child."
I tried to tell my son so many times there's something deeply damaged about his father. I personally think he's got borderline personality disorder and is a pathological liar. The easiest way to describe it is the man lacks a conscience and empathy.
My son has wanted SO BADLY to get closure. Time and again he's tried contacting his father with the same frustrating results. Last year, after more than ten adult years of trying to reason with the man, he finally gave up. He had a final extended texting conversation with him, said everything to his father he wanted to say then told the man he was dead to him, to no longer attempt contact, there was no purpose, he would not acknowledge him.
Anybody who says "They're your parent, you owe them respect, you should be the better person and be willing to forgive, show them compassion, they'll change, blah, blah, blah ..." Knock yourself out, but I've been in a close relationship with people who are impossibly toxic and there comes a time where you have to admit there is no changing people and the best you can do is save your own butt. These people will just tear the heart out of you and crap in the hole they leave in your chest. Sometimes a person really is just a DNA donor, and otherwise they have no business being in your life. If you survive childhood with these people, you owe them nothing. Everything you make of your life is IN SPITE of them, not because of them.
IMO, unrepentant toxic parents don't deserve any more compassion as they age and become helpless than they gave us when we were little and helpless and they were supposed to care for and protect us and instead terrorized us, abused us, and gave us lifelong neuroses.
I am so sorry for what you lived thru GG.
IMO, unrepentant toxic parents don't deserve any more compassion as they age and become helpless than they gave us when we were little and helpless and they were supposed to care for and protect us and instead terrorized us, abused us, and gave us lifelong neuroses.
Thank you for understanding that no one must put up with abuse no matter who the abuser is. And I think having children changes a lot and people without kids don't understand that thought process of decisions to keep a toxic person in my life also means keeping them in my kids lives. And I wont do that. I actually cut her off shortly after my oldest was born....
You're welcome and I think you are completely doing the right thing. I agree that having children change your perspective and make you stronger to protect them. My first husband was an mentally abusive POS. He didn't hit me, but he was vile and controlling. I definitely didn't want my daughter to see me treated like that and think that was an appropriate for a person to treat her that way. I didn't want my boys to see me treated like that and think it's a good way to behave towards your spouse, you know? But yeah, protecting your children from her is definitely understandable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827
I think people that stay in those types of relationships have self esteem issues, likely created by the abuser. Why would anyone with any sense of self worth continue to subject themselves to that?
I agree. I know that people who are abused often stay, but I'm very glad that you are limiting your contact to your mother to what you can take. There is no reason to subject yourself to abuse. Ever. You have to be really strong to do what you are doing and I'm glad for your own sanity and your kids that you are setting boundaries and keeping them.
Did you read my original post?? I don't want the I'm sorry for the apology. And I haven't asked her to say sorry. I think it would show emotional growth on her part; a sign that she is no longer ill. I tried to say that because I had a feeling SOMEONE would read it and hear it as I'm telling her I'll talk to her when she says sorry. I tried to quickly explain that that is not the case, but expected someone to still not get it...bravo for being that person to interpret it that way. I don't think you get it and I don't think your mother is like mine. Mine would not make snide remarks and turn things into a fight. She is the kind of person that smiles to your face and quietly destroys your life while you are looking away.
She has destroyed my brother, I watched it. He is a social cripple, He cannot maintain any relationships because she sabotages them. He still lives at home with his mom and is nearly 30. He is her emotional prisoner. He and I still talk barely, but he hide it from our mom. He does not have any contact with any other family. He says that it makes mom feel bad. She would never be mean to him about it, but she uses guilt and passive aggressive methods to guilt people. My brother feels guilty leaving home and having a wife!!! How sad, his life is all about keeping mother happy. She tells him if he leaves she will kill herself. And so his life is pathetic and empty, and he is sad over it but talks like Steelslady, that he should stay with her, and yet at the cost of his own life. And someday when she dies, and our parents aren't old, she's in her 50s, so he's got a long time, he will realize he is alone and miserable. No one owes anyone that. I would NEVER want my children to do that. No normal parent would.
I know she will never be sorry. She can't. I *think* she is dealing with some kind of personality disorder, that's my opinion.
Its weird that she would keep contacting me to say "talk to me and remember you are wrong". That is insane. No socially competent person would do that to anyone. That's like getting dumped by someone, they have moved on, and you keep calling them to say "I love you and miss you, come back and because everything was your fault"....That would not work on anyone with any self respect. Its actually laughable.
Sorry, I did see that you said that but the end part of your post seemed that a part of you was waiting for an apology. I wasn't trying to be unsympathetic, I was worried about my tone when I wrote that post!
Like I said in my post, is that cutting her out might be the right thing to do if you can REALLY cut her out. However, if seeing your brother means seeing your mother you might have to figure out a way to deal with her. That's the problem when you have siblings you love and a toxic parent!
I'm sorry that you're having to go through that GG.
My dad, unfortunately was much the same way. He got custody of my brother and I by offering to take care of us for a month while my mom had to leave town on business... two weeks in he had called the cops and said she left us unattended to. She didn't have anything in writing that he had promised to take care of the kids, and that was pretty much that as far as the court saw. He was very happy to brag about the whole ordeal. In addition he'd often make comments about how my boobs would never be as big as my mother's because my step-dad bought her implants, or I'd never be as thin as my sister.. not out of any inspirational speech, just comments out of no where.
I was lucky in that when I was 15 my mom moved back into the state, we were able to talk to child protection services, and get out of the situation. I didn't talk to my dad for 7 years after that, and when I finally did start talking to him again it was extremely strained. Initially he'd seem like he wanted to repair the relationship, but any talk was an automatic guilt trip. Basically, he was incapable of inviting me into his life, but liked to throw around words that he knew would make me feel guilty. His idea of a joke was telling people working under him that they were fired during their reviews.. and when they left his office crying he thought it was funny.. only to go "oh I was just joking" several hours later.
So, I definitely get where you're coming from, and I completely and utterly support your decision to distance yourself from your mother. Blood does not automatically mean you should put up with anything someone throws at you. Anyone who abuses people has something wrong mentally, in my opinion, but that doesn't excuse their behavior, nor does it mean you should need to tolerate it. On the plus side, my father had a very life changing experience (he is now legally blind). This shifted, or at least seemed to shift, how he looked at the world and his relationships with people. He's since apologized, tell's me he loves me often, and no longer says extremely hurtful things. I hope your mother has some epiphany that what she's been doing, and the things she's said, are indeed wrong.
Thank you all for the support. Honestly, I expected to sign on to more posts leaving me feeling annoyed and unheard. This was not the case.
Song of Surly - "And all he wanted, so badly, was love. He would have done anything for her to feel her love, but it wasn't there."
This is so true of situations like this, IMO. I think deep down I keep thinking she will wake up and be normal. Several years back, we had an odd interaction, which is when I privately decided to wait for an apology as a sign she has changed. She called me (which she does about 2-3x a year and I don't answer, well I hadn't for years. And that day, I answered, hoping all the time that passed she had grown, changed and was willing to meet in the middle. We talked for an hour or so, and she never acknowledged her behavior or apologized, but she listened without getting defensive. I agreed to have a relationship with her via email first, and there would be boundaries that she would have to respect. She was fine with that. So we emailed for a week or so.
Then I received an email one day from someone saying that my personal email address (which I ended up having to close) and my letters to her were posted online, and I was given the forum info. I went and there it was, my mother was a member of a forum of moms all with children that were estranged only these moms talked about adult children that were on drugs and were in jail and all sorts of stuff.
As I read, I found all my emails posted (copied and pasted but carefully edited so that anything that incriminated her or made me look sane was removed) but yet she failed to delete my email address from the heading area. Most of what was posted were the boundaries I was laying out. So it looked like I wrote her emails full of rules!! Followed were comments from my mother saying she'd love to just smack me, and she dreams of the day when I realize how horrible I am, she went on and on about how she could barley stop herself from telling me to "go f*ck off" when I was talking to her on the phone, "making up" all this stuff she never did. She was saying she was only being nice to me to get to my kids. And ridiculing my emails and me personally...It was horrifying only because to my face she never expressed this. I knew she hated me, and she had been talking about me like that since I was a kid, but this was the first time I had the cold hard proof right there in black and white. Some members replying to her said that she should not allow me back into her life (and she left out how *she* was regularly trying to contact me!) other members said she should just be glad I'm talking to her. I actually screen shot it all and still have it.
Anyway, the scary part wasn't what she said, it was that I *believed* her on the phone, and the more I thought about it, the more I realized she actually never said she did anything wrong, she never actually apologized, she just didn't argue with what I was saying...I took her silence as acknowledgement.
I sent her the screen shots and reported my email and it was removed. But that was the nail in the coffin for us ever having contact. You know, I haven't thought about that in years and as I'm retyping it, I'm thinking, even if she apologized, I'd never allow her in my life again.
ReNewMe - "All my son has ever asked for was acknowledgement of the abuse and an apology. His father has NEVER admitted to what he did, not once. And when my son tried to tell him "that was abuse" he turned it around and said "you were a horrible child."
This was so perfectly said. This is the route of all the talking (typing) I'm doing. All I ever wanted was her to acknowledge and apologize. But all she has ever done is make it sound like she was the victim of a horrid child....and a horrid boss, and horrid neighbors etc...EVERYONE in her life is horrible people, and she is the victim of these people. I am no different.
I have mentioned on this forum my dad has had some issue too. But the reason I still try to keep a real relationship with him ...sometimes I have to step away emotionally, I do, but I would never cut him off, and I always forgive him for some of the things he has done that have really hurt me...well its because he is trying. If I come to him with something that hurts me, yes his first reaction is not good, it can be pretty mean, but he always comes to me eventually and says he knows he has challenges and he will always try to be a better person.. None of us are perfect and I struggle with parts of myself that I want to change, ways I act, and I expect we all do. To me the parent that says "I know I did XYZ. I shouldn't have done that. I was angry/upset/scared but that's no excuse for how I acted. I'm sorry and I will never stop trying to change that" is a parent that is a good person. vs that one that says "I have been nothing but perfect to you, and you are so bad that its your fault for making me mad. If you were just a better kid, I'd be a better mom".
Sorry, I did see that you said that but the end part of your post seemed that a part of you was waiting for an apology. I wasn't trying to be unsympathetic, I was worried about my tone when I wrote that post!
Like I said in my post, is that cutting her out might be the right thing to do if you can REALLY cut her out. However, if seeing your brother means seeing your mother you might have to figure out a way to deal with her. That's the problem when you have siblings you love and a toxic parent!
Rant about mom, she cannot say "sorry"!
