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Old 06-07-2013, 07:23 PM   #46
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I keep having flashbacks of the guy walking down the beach wearing this t-shirt with his hairy beer gut hanging out. I always thought, "Yeah, I don't think you'll have to worry about that!" LOL
I know, right. I once (about 30 years ago, so mid-80's) saw the "no fat chicks" bumper sticker on a beautiful, red sportscar and it seemed so out of place on such a classy expensive vehicle... then I saw the driver. Pot belly, terrible complexion, greasy comb-over, ugly silk shirt unbuttoned to his waist, and several strands of clunky gold jewelry. Tacky and stereotypical even for the times.

He obviously thought he was something special, but it was hard not to laugh and even feel a little sorry for the guy. I would have bet then and now that prostitutes would be his only source of female companionship.

I also suspect that if any woman, fat, old, or otherwise paid him the least bit of attention he would have wet himself in fear (and then would brag to his friends, weaving some tale of pure fantasy).
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #47
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Hubby and I have a sign in our house that says "we got rid of the kid, the cat was allergic."
Oooh, I do think that's funny! Especially with my husband and son allergic to our cat...
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #48
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Oooh, I do think that's funny! Especially with my husband and son allergic to our cat...
I'm allergic to cat dander as well, but it must be a specific dander protein (I remember reading that there are several dander proteins that humans can be allergic to, and individual cats produce varying amounts of these).

All I know is that I'm allergic to some cats and not others, so when we went to shelters looking for a cat, I had to "sniff test" each of the cats we considered. If I had a reaction, we'd have to check that cat off our list and come back another day to check the rest.

The shelter staff had to think I was nuts when they handed me a cat and the first thing I did was bury my nose in the fur and inhaled deeply (new drug addiction - huffing cats, sort of like licking toads).
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:56 PM   #49
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Because fat people are denied jobs, housing, and respect...tall people are not. As far as the bear heads...that's hilarious...but not at ALL comparable to demeaning minorities. Same for the cat thing. They don't promote the mistreatment of particular groups.

"I also think that there are so many offensive door mats, t-shirts, bumper stickers, door signs, tattoos, jewelry, posters and conversations, that you can't confront them all, so you have to pick your battles, but if you only choose to fight those that are aimed at a group you belong to, then you're a bigot in your own right (I don't care who you insult as long as it's not me and my group)."

That just proves my point that we need more people to speak up. I certainly don't have time or energy to chase down every offensive bumper sticker I see...but if it's something I see on a regular basis or is right in front of me. I have an opportunity (and a moral obligation) to speak up. And how does it make someone a bigot if they reserve most of their effort to defend their own disadvantaged group? Was MLK a bigot? César Chávez? Harvey Milk? They devoted the majority of their lives to speaking out against hate aimed at "their" groups.

You might not be offended by it Kaplods, but a little kid might be hurt by it. Hence...moral obligation.

Yes, it serves as his own punishment. Karma is a...wonderful lady. That doesn't negate the fact that someone should say something...actually it is kind of like saying..oh well, someone will eventually set him straight by not banging him so I don't need to say anything. The bystander effect, as we know...doesn't help anything but our individual convenience and comfort.

I would also suggest that there is a BIG difference between giving him the "rise" he may or may not be seeking and calmly offering your opinion and then dropping the issue. For instance, while I literally lol'd at some of the suggestions offered here (no fat chicks allowed, just dicks, etc.), I would consider them "rises" as opposed to calm, informative action.

Again, apathy never accomplished anything but personal comfort. Obviously we have to choose out battles...but this one happens to be something the OP has to see regularly, in her neighborhood...which reasonably calls for action.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #50
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Because fat people are denied jobs, housing, and respect...tall people are not. As far as the bear heads...that's hilarious...but not at ALL comparable to demeaning minorities. Same for the cat thing. They don't promote the mistreatment of particular groups.

"I also think that there are so many offensive door mats, t-shirts, bumper stickers, door signs, tattoos, jewelry, posters and conversations, that you can't confront them all, so you have to pick your battles, but if you only choose to fight those that are aimed at a group you belong to, then you're a bigot in your own right (I don't care who you insult as long as it's not me and my group)."

That just proves my point that we need more people to speak up. I certainly don't have time or energy to chase down every offensive bumper sticker I see...but if it's something I see on a regular basis or is right in front of me. I have an opportunity (and a moral obligation) to speak up. And how does it make someone a bigot if they reserve most of their effort to defend their own disadvantaged group? Was MLK a bigot? César Chávez? Harvey Milk? They devoted the majority of their lives to speaking out against hate aimed at "their" groups.

You might not be offended by it Kaplods, but a little kid might be hurt by it. Hence...moral obligation.

Yes, it serves as his own punishment. Karma is a...wonderful lady. That doesn't negate the fact that someone should say something...actually it is kind of like saying..oh well, someone will eventually set him straight by not banging him so I don't need to say anything. The bystander effect, as we know...doesn't help anything but our individual convenience and comfort.

I would also suggest that there is a BIG difference between giving him the "rise" he may or may not be seeking and calmly offering your opinion and then dropping the issue. For instance, while I literally lol'd at some of the suggestions offered here (no fat chicks allowed, just dicks, etc.), I would consider them "rises" as opposed to calm, informative action.

Again, apathy never accomplished anything but personal comfort. Obviously we have to choose out battles...but this one happens to be something the OP has to see regularly, in her neighborhood...which reasonably calls for action.
Here's the thing, you can't have a teaching moment with a person like that. Someone who puts offensive mats, or tweets cruel words, etc. will only get off on the attention. If the person made some subtle off-hand remark, I would tell her to be more open to discussion. Because typically people who say things like fat people are lazy or other similar comments are simply ignorant. But this was cruelty which this idiot thinks is funny.

Ignorance can be fixed but stupidity/cruelty cannot. This guy with mat is a jerk and she can file a complaint but all that does is give power to his words. He wanted to hurt someone and know he knows he did. He wins.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:58 PM   #51
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This is a good topic for "what would you do" which is on abc tonight!!! one of my favorite shows!

Lecomtes, you say everything I want to say but way better. I think it's irrelevant whether someone is not offended by this type of display. I'm glad that you kaplods find it amusing. But not everyone has the same comfort level when they are confronted with discrimination. There are many who benefit from the bravery of others. It feels good to stand up for what's right and that doesn't mean that I'm giving a rise to anyone. I feel much better about myself if I do something. Sometimes doing nothing is the right thing, sometimes doing something is the right thing though I can't imagine what doing nothing would accomplish here. I don't want my son to grow up and think stuff like that is ok. If I can set an example on how to confront a situation calmly and rationally then ill try to do that. This is one of the causes that I care about, it's just one of them. That's not petty just because you don't care about it.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #52
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I did not say or mean to imply that a person shouldn't focus on fighting their own group's discrimination issues first and foremost, only that if they only see or care about their own (and to **** with anyone else) then they are being hypocritical.

I also didn't say op should do nothing, or even that I would do nothing, but as a culture, we accept far worse discrimination against the overweight often perpetuated most severely by those who are overweight themselves. I find it unsettling that the more egregious discrimination is accepted and even supported even within the overweight community, but an idiot with an overblown ego is taken more seriously than he deserves while the worst discrimination is accepted as long as it's not openly talked about.

It's not the idiot proving himself to be an idiot that we have to worry about, it's the people who smile sympathetically and then stab us in the back.

I just find it so sad that the idiots are taken more seriously and targeted for "doing something" than those who discriminate politely and more discreetly. The "rule" in our society is that it's ok to hate and discriminate against fat people as you do it discreetly, or with "concern"

Personally, I'd rather KNOW a person's shameful biases than have to guess.

I was in Walmart one day when a fat little girl giggled and said to her fat mom, "that lady has a big butt," her mother forced the girl to apologize. I said,"It's ok," And her mother said, "No it's not."

"Good parenting," many of you are thinking.

And I say BULLSH.... In the first place, I suspect the girl was parotting an adult, possibly even the mother herself. Was mom upset by what her child said, or that she said it too loud.

Secondly, I DO HAVE A BIG BUTT, and I wanted to tell the mother that it is all right for a child to notice, and the RIGHT thing to do is stop treating the word fat as if it's different than the word tall. Scolding that child perpetuates the myth that fat means bad (or she wouldn't have been punished for saying so).

I'm tired of "fat" being treated as a swear word. I'm tired of a world were rude idiots are given more respect than the bigger evil of a society thatcaccepts weight discrimination as long as it's delivered with a kind smile and a gentle plattitude like, "you have such a pretty face," or "I'm just worried about your health...."

The idiots are carrying their "I'm an idiot" placards around their necks (or on their t-shirts, bumper stickers and doormats), it's the polite ones we need to worry about and the ones who don't even know that they're spreading hate like that little girl's mother who shamed that darling little girl for noticing that I had a big butt (just like her and her mommy).

It's ok to teach children that fat is so bad we have to pretend we don't notice it, and yet in the privacy of our own homes it's ok to make fun of anyone fatter than we are - because THAT'S the tone I heard in that little girl's voice, the tone I have heard in my mother's and grandmother's and other women's voices throughout my life, that "at least I'm not THAT fat" voice.

And yet I couldn't call that mother on it, because that wouldn't have been socially acceptable. I wanted to say "yes, I'm fat, so is your mother and so are you, and fat may not be the best thing to be, but it's not bad or shameful to admit it.

If I had tried to explain that, odds are the mother would have been outraged that I had called her and her daughter fat, because the polite (and foully discriminatory) thing to do is to politely pretend not to notice that we're all two to three times larger than the average.


Sadly, I don't expect anyone to see the polite, but acceptable discrimination as the FAR greater evil, but I do and I don't feel the need to waste my time on the unteachable idiots waving their "I'm an idiot" banners. I'm too busy educating those who can do far more damage such as the doctor who treats fat patients with thinly veiled, but socially accepable levels of contempt.

Idiots will always be idiots, it's the people who should know better that we can reach, but the first step is refusing to see "fat" as an insult, which means treating a "no fat chicks" sign exactly as if it were a "no tall chicks" sign - as a stupid, and totally useless piece of information about the man's personal preferences.

No one would blink an eye or hate on the guy if the only thing we knew about him was that he had never dated anyone who wasn't slim - so why do we care more about what he says than what his actions might prove?

Yeah, I know my logic isn't mainstream, but if more people thought like me, fat wouldn't be a bad word, and no one would be ashamed of the word or themselves for being fat and no one would avoid getting help or being active in public, because there'd be no shame in admitting what everyone can see anyway.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:37 PM   #53
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interesting thread - and another point to consider is that if the mat is outside the door, chances are it's on the condo association's property. How can you tell easily? if the association shovels the walk right up to your doorway, it's considered a common area, and not the property of the condo owner.

The association where i lived just finished policing 'yards' and doorways for not-allowed objects, like rude comments, signs, a plastic flamingo or two, deer statues, bunny statues, cat statues, and so on. plants - potted or dug in - were permitted to stay, thank goodness, as my herbs are finally planted in nice pots.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:44 PM   #54
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This thread has DEFINITELY made me want to sell our condo and buy a house
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:30 PM   #55
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"I did not say or mean to imply that a person shouldn't focus on fighting their own group's discrimination issues first and foremost, only that if they only see or care about their own (and to **** with anyone else) then they are being hypocritical."
I see...that would be pretty messed up. Personally, I am a vociferous defender of more that the obese, an active volunteer with PFLAG and offer support to other sociopolitical organizations...and I suspect most of the people here at 3FC care about more than their own discrimination.

I commend your viewpoint on subtle (and more insidious, and ubiquitous) discrimination. I couldn't agree with most of your post more, I just think action against idiots is equally important, and if they are in close proximity to me I am more than happy to take action. In no way however do I think their open discrimination is "more important" to address...but I don't find it less important either. I feel it is important to encourage people to stand up for what's right in either scenario. Having been a teenager once, I understand that idiocy can actually be improved upon...I have every bit as much faith in idiots to lose stupidity as the overweight to lose lbs...but it's a process, and sometimes it takes a little encouragement.

That said, I've shared your thoughts about the other f-word. I never cease to be amazed when people tell me, "Oh, you're not fat/obese.", during an honest discussion in which I state the fact (not in a negative way, a simple statement of fact)...as if admitting to the obviously visible fat on my body is akin to admitting to kicking kittens for sh1ts and gigs. "Fat" is nothing , but exclusionary messages are.

Whether we choose to confront the idiots or the socially acceptable shaming, it looks like we have our work cut out for us!
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:51 PM   #56
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Oooh, it would be perfect for that show wannabeskinny!

"There are many who benefit from the bravery of others."

You see, I think you said it better, I lack brevity!
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:52 PM   #57
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"This thread has DEFINITELY made me want to sell our condo and buy a house."
LOL! Just don't do anything scandalous like fly an American flag or anything and nobody will trouble you
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:11 AM   #58
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""Fat" is nothing , but exclusionary messages are."

Exactly! Yes!

And uh... if this guy has a condo I imagine he has some sort of job, hopefully not one where he's involved with hiring people or serving customers or working with kids or in a hospital or anywhere where he could possibly have any kind of power over someone who's fat OR female.
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Old 06-08-2013, 02:33 AM   #59
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@Kaplods (sorry, I don't know how to make those fancy quotes from people's posts ...)

"I'm tired of "fat" being treated as a swear word."

But the problem with the mat is not the word "fat" but the discrimination against fat people.. I mean, it's not like people would find it less offensive if the mat said "no obese chicks allowed", right? I agree that "fat" should be seen as an objective, non-offensive adjective, it's just that that's not the issue at hand.

Secondly, I disagree with your point about the "far greater evil" of "subtle" discrimination. While I get that that's your personal preference, historically discrimination was overcome firstly by squashing its very overt and very unsubtle manifestations: first slavery was abolished, then segregation laws, etc.

People still hold "subtle" prejudices against people of color. But does mean that it's bad that even they don't use the "n-word"? Do you see this as hypocritical? Would it be better if bigots used the "n-word" and thus proclaimed themselves as such? The way I see it is that it's a huge step forward - because it means that American society has succeeded in making discrimination against people of color shameful.

We are social creatures and our opinions are hugely affected by what we perceive as normative. It doesn't mean that some people don't still hold prejudices against people of color, but it does mean that they are much more likely to feel that their attitudes are unacceptable. Which I personally believe is a much more powerful route to attitude change than rational discourse.

So, to abolish discriminatory attitudes towards fat people, we need to make them socially unacceptable. So I say, good for you, OP, for standing up to this guy and showing him that his bigotry is unacceptable to the people around him.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #60
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I did not say or mean to imply that a person shouldn't focus on fighting their own group's discrimination issues first and foremost, only that if they only see or care about their own (and to **** with anyone else) then they are being hypocritical.

...

It's not the idiot proving himself to be an idiot that we have to worry about, it's the people who smile sympathetically and then stab us in the back.

I just find it so sad that the idiots are taken more seriously and targeted for "doing something" than those who discriminate politely and more discreetly. The "rule" in our society is that it's ok to hate and discriminate against fat people as you do it discreetly, or with "concern"

Personally, I'd rather KNOW a person's shameful biases than have to guess.

I was in Walmart one day when a fat little girl giggled and said to her fat mom, "that lady has a big butt," her mother forced the girl to apologize. I said,"It's ok," And her mother said, "No it's not."

"Good parenting," many of you are thinking.

And I say BULLSH.... In the first place, I suspect the girl was parotting an adult, possibly even the mother herself. Was mom upset by what her child said, or that she said it too loud.


It's ok to teach children that fat is so bad we have to pretend we don't notice it, and yet in the privacy of our own homes it's ok to make fun of anyone fatter than we are - because THAT'S the tone I heard in that little girl's voice, the tone I have heard in my mother's and grandmother's and other women's voices throughout my life, that "at least I'm not THAT fat" voice.


If I had tried to explain that, odds are the mother would have been outraged that I had called her and her daughter fat, because the polite (and foully discriminatory) thing to do is to politely pretend not to notice that we're all two to three times larger than the average.


Yeah, I know my logic isn't mainstream, but if more people thought like me, fat wouldn't be a bad word, and no one would be ashamed of the word or themselves for being fat and no one would avoid getting help or being active in public, because there'd be no shame in admitting what everyone can see anyway.
I think that the point that is coming across in your posts is that you think that your cause is loftier than someone else's cause. There's no point to accuse anyone here of being hypocritical because nobody has actually proven that they only care about their own discriminatory cause. So why even bring that up? It just makes everyone feel bad for absolutely no reason. We all have things we care about in our lives and at this moment we're talking about this one particular thing. Do you really want me to drag up all the causes I care about? No because that wouldn't make sense to do that in this thread.

I think it's a stretch to make those assumptions about the little girl and her Mom. I've worked with elementary aged school children all my life and sometimes they don't parrot. Sometimes they just say the darndest things and there's no clue where they came from. It might from tv for all you know. Looking into these fine details of discrimination can be tricky if you don't really know what you're looking at.

"the polite (and foully discriminatory) thing to do is to politely pretend not to notice that we're all two to three times larger than the average." ---- what would you rather do? Walk up to someone and say hey I'm fat! or hey I'm tall! or hey I'm asian! People do get uncomfortable if we are self depricating I know I get uncomfortable when anyone talks about their issues. I've said it out loud before that I'm obese and people say NOOOOOO you're not. It's weird but I'm not really bothered by that. Because my friends and loved ones when they say NOOOOO you're not I know that what they really mean to say is that "you're not a bad person, we love you how you are and that word means that you are in a danger zone and that scares us!"

Each person has issues that they feel passionate about, but saying " I'm too busy educating those who can do far more damage" is just another way of saying "this cause is petty and a waste of time."
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