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05-23-2013, 12:48 PM
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#16
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One with the Wind and Sky
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,965
S/C/G: 360/246/150
Height: 5' 8"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreciousMissy
I don't think it's OT at all. I take all photos in magazines/catalogs with a grain of salt. There is a lot of air brushing and image editing going on. I'm not saying that the body proportions are impossible, but they are a rarity.
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I know someone that got featured on the cover of a popular magazine for her weight loss (she's not a model, she's just someone that worked very hard to reach her goals). And they photoshopped the hǝll out of her, so much that I didn't even recognize her. In fact, I still struggled to recognize her after I saw her name in the article and realized it was indeed someone I knew. She literally had a completely different mouth and set of teeth.
Some people asked her things like, "You are already beautiful, why did the magazine change your appearance?" While I'm pretty sure it was the magazine editor's choice and not hers, she got angry and extremely defensive, asking people not to comment if they didn't have anything nice to say. I also noticed that the photos from the shoot carefully cropped out and/or blocked her "problem areas," but after what they did to her mouth I wondered why they didn't just photoshop the rest of her. She expressed disappointment when they didn't bother mentioning the name of her blog in the featured two-page article (which has been a very important part of her success). They even altered her personally-created recipe for the publication (after it hit the newsstands she mentioned she'd have to post the real recipe in her blog). They also greatly exaggerated how many pounds her plan could make readers lose in one week.
I thought the whole situation was terrible in a way . . . here she was with a massive 200 pound loss and an extraordinary story, granting her a very much deserved 15 minutes of fame, yet the real her still wasn't good enough to be published as-is. And when anyone pointed this out to her or mentioned that they didn't recognize her on that cover, she attacked them as a "hater."
This type of distorted reality belittles her individuality and does absolutely nothing to share her real story of inspiration. Instead it plasters out yet another unrealistic weight loss expectation and generic beauty ideals for the sake of selling issues.
Last edited by Elladorine; 05-23-2013 at 12:56 PM.
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05-24-2013, 07:45 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,607
S/C/G: 215/188/150
Height: 5'4"
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05-24-2013, 09:29 AM
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#18
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Claim it ,Achieve it!
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 712
S/C/G: 212/104.2/120
Height: 5'2"
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It is all about staging ....just like when you're trying to sell a house ....no one wants the reality how you truly live in the house ...they want the fantasy.
We buy the fantasy that gets us excited to purchase and shop IMO! Remember years ago looking through Sears Wishbook as a child ....I don't want reality....I want to be transported to Fantasy Island
Men Look at Sports Illustrated ....most guys are not buying magazines of average women with stretch marks and flabby tummies ....to get their engines going ....even those these probably are the women in their life.
Businesses are giving us visual imagines that visually excite us.
Studies have been done with infants that show they have preferences for pretty symmetrical faces.
Although it maybe PC to say we do not have preferences ....first impressions are usually based on appearances....
An adorable Baby face draws me in instantly .. Beautiful puppy face....Majestic Horse.....
If I want to see average I can look in the mirror ....but if I want dream about the possibilities and the fantasy I look to the magazines
I have Teenage daughter and her self esteem is not anyway diminished when she pages thru her subscription of 17 or her other magazines. She has her own look and is a very pretty girl....not what the magazine would be looking for...she gets attention since she was very young for having a different look...they have made a new Disney Princess that looks like her! Long Red Curly flowing Tresses ,with Porcelain skin and Green Eyes and Petite.
We work with what we are given and celebrate the differences in us all ,and appreciate the inherent beauty that we all possess ....even if it is not a marketable!
Roo2
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05-24-2013, 10:46 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 436
S/C/G: 280/255/Healthy, Happy, Strong
Height: 5'7"
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I'd love to see a greater diversity represented in the fashion industry. I don't believe your concerns are unfounded. First off the origin of the "plus sized" model was just ridiculous. Any model outside being super skinny is being labeled "plus size" and has difficulty getting "normal" modeling jobs. I will say that I'm much more angered by the super skinny model ideal that is being shoved in our faces, further enhanced by the extensive use of photoshop (even the models themselves don't look like their pictures). I know that there are some women that are naturally very skinny in the modeling industry, but there are far too many horror stories of models starving themselves to get/keep work. The ideal needs to be more like the average woman. From what I have read and seen, there are far too many gorgeous models that are between the super skinny model "ideal" and the more appropriately labeled plus size models that have difficulty getting work. In my opinion, these women should be the fashion model size norm. If sample sizes were larger models could normalize at what is a healthy and natural weight for them. In some ways this is changing too. This season H&M used a larger than "normal" model for their swimwear line without making a huge fuss about it.
There does seem to be a shift in the plus size model industry where retailers are asking for larger plus sized models. In fact, some plus sized models end up using padding to appear larger to suit clients. (It is sad that there aren't more jobs for them the size that they are.) Door are opening for larger models, though it is still harder for those larger models to get consistent work. I am hopeful though that this is changing too.
The bottom line is thought that they use the models that sell the clothing. As consumers, we can help to make changes in the industry by buying from retailers that use models with a greater diversity of sizes and body shapes.
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05-24-2013, 10:57 AM
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#20
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Finally in control.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 785
S/C/G: 294/236/199
Height: 5'4"
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They are all airbrushed within an inch of their lives...like all models and people who appear in magazines. Don't get yourself worked up over something that isn't even real.
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05-24-2013, 11:06 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 222
S/C/G: 182/ticker/130
Height: 5'2"
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Ok, this may be a little long, but I actually just wrote a research paper on media and body image, and I just wanted to share some of my opinions formed from writing it.
Super skinny models are ridiculous. Only 1% of the population even has the chance of being that skinny, less than 1% actually are. Also, these supermodels have BMIs usually only seen in people with eating disorders, and a lot of these models do themselves. So not only is the media sending a message to women that is impossible, it is unhealthy too. And then photoshop comes and and removes any imperfection and makes these models even skinnier...even these models we see aren't "perfect" enough without technology. Even the "ideal" isn't ideal enough for the media, and even being anorexic like many of these models are isn't skinny enough.
When it comes to plus size models, I think the idea is a good one, but only to a certain extent. Women should feel beautiful no matter what their size, but I don't think we should promote an unhealthy lifestyle, either. A size 12 being a "plus size" is insane. Since when is 12 a plus size? The media should change its standards to fit normal people. Have plus size models actually be a plus size in the clothing industry. But, I do think that if all women see in the media are plus size models, they will become okay with being unhealthy, and that is not good either. Being overweight is just as unhealthy as having an eating disorder and being underweight, and neither should be celebrated in the media.
And why are supermodels so TALL! There is nothing the average short person (like me) can do to change our height, so why make us feel bad about it?
So I guess what I am trying to say is, the media should promote women that are HEALTHY, bee they short, tall, skinny, or a "plus size," but going to either extreme is dangerous. Right now we are at the skinny extreme, but I think the plus size extreme could be just as bad. Women in the media IMO should be your healthy, average woman. There should be a greater diversity in height, body shape, size, and even so-called "beauty," but they should all be healthy.
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05-24-2013, 12:31 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 506
S/C/G: 183/166/135
Height: 5'6"
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Just a mention about photoshop, my business partner is photographer and an expert at photoshop. It is absolutley incredible what he can do to a model in photoshop. The weird part is, there are girls that he photoshops the h*ll out of, and they never ever say a word about it. they like it! There was even a girl who specifically said, "do whatever you need to make me look like a supermodel". At the end of it she didn't even look like herself, but she LOVED it.
I would actually love for him to travel around elementary and junior high schools showing kids what can be done in photoshop, to show them how every model is photoshopped like crazy and no one really looks like that.
I mean, you can even clone an entire person out of a picture! You can actually ERASE A MEMORY lol. That is crazy.
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05-24-2013, 12:44 PM
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#23
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Joe
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 922
S/C/G: 405/249.5/281.5/220
Height: 6' 0"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lecomtes
"To me Kate Moss and Christina Hendricks are two sides of the same coin."
A-friggin'-men to that, I get fed up with people saying, oh well, look at so-and-so , she's not rail thin and the media represents her! SO WHAT?! All these women have pretty close to the same features/faces. Give me a gap tooth, short model with a tummy pooch ANY day! I will make a SPECIAL effort to buy your products because of it! I know just what you mean, there is no real diversity...It's pathetic, and not at ALL representative of what this consumer wants! Plus size models are a small step in the right direction, but let's have more diversity in shape, height, and facial features please!
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But is the issue just about who these models "represent"? A big difference between Kate Moss and Christina Hendricks is that girls will starve themselves or become bulimic in order to lose and maintain a low weight to look like Kate Moss. But such drastic weight loss /maintenance would not be required to try to look like Christina Hendricks. (But maybe a boob job though). But in the scheme of things, if we're really worried about girls tried to emulate models or celebs, wouldn't you rather them try to emulate someone who is not emaciated?
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05-24-2013, 01:28 PM
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#24
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Staying the Same
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 6,448
S/C/G: 160+/116-120/maintainer
Height: 5'5
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Runway models are human clothes hangers; they are designed to show off the clothes.
Plus size models are never flat chested or apple shaped. It's more of the same.
Fitness models do huge cuts before shows and take diuretics.
Virtually all models represent idealized images of their product and are made up and airbrushed.
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05-24-2013, 01:51 PM
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#25
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High Fat/Low Carb=Happy!
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 286
Height: 5'9" Age: 50
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So exactly WHAT is the "average" woman's body shaped like, a pear or an apple? DDD breasts with sloping shoulders or A cups with wide shoulders? Thank GOD more designers are embracing designing ANYTHING for people that are shorter than six feet tall and a size zero. Just because a person is obese doesn't mean she carries her weight in the same place as the next person.
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05-24-2013, 01:55 PM
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,202
S/C/G: 133.4/123.2/115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krampus
Runway models are human clothes hangers; they are designed to show off the clothes.
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That's exactly what I was thinking.
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05-24-2013, 02:33 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 605
S/C/G: 310/*look*/140
Height: 5'9
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"you rather them try to emulate someone who is not emaciated?"
My point is, young girls and boys should not be marketed such a narrow range of physical appearance...people shouldn't want to emulate another persons nose or eyes or boobs or being so thin the only means of them successfully emulating the ideal are starvation or surgery. I would rather people emulate traits that are attainable for them without going to these extremes, not that I begrudge people choosing plastic surgery, but I think it's popularity is symptomatic of a culture that places more value on looks than it should. Kids should be taught to emulate traits worth emulating. Loyalty, humility, a good work ethic, healthy habits.
Teenage girls being relentlessly surrounded by images of the model monoculture absolutely effects their self-perception. Countless studies have demonstrated this. That is nothing to snuff off as "Well, it's just the way things are.", as many people do. Well, the way things are have been known to change, and this mama isn't settling for any less. I don't want fantasy, I want reality.
It's not just about representing plus-size women, it's about representing a broader range of people, women, men, short, large noses, small noses, freckles, red heads, people with glasses, men without 12 packs, and so on.
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05-24-2013, 03:23 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 380
S/C/G: 225/167/135
Height: 5'7"
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I still feel most of you are missing my point. It isn't about the industry!
I am annoyed that every time there is model who is over a size 12 people get excited as though something has change. But a perfectly proportional size 12, 14,16, etc. is not change. Sorry it just isn't!
Most of those pictures posted those women are all hourglass and their stomachs are fairly flat. I just wish people would stop deluding themselves.
I mean for example, if A&F starts selling plus size clothes what exactly does everyone think the models will look like? I'll tell you they will be size 12/14 flat stomach, hourglass shape. How is that necessarily positive? I just don't see it. It is just another ideal that most people cannot achieve. And I don't see how a person getting plastic surgery to achieve that is psychologically better than having an eating disorder.
I guess this A&F thing just annoyed me on several levels! :<
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05-24-2013, 03:36 PM
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#29
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Katrina
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 926
S/C/G: 162/see ticker/130
Height: 5'6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatLib
I still feel most of you are missing my point. It isn't about the industry!
I am annoyed that every time there is model who is over a size 12 people get excited as though something has change. But a perfectly proportional size 12, 14,16, etc. is not change. Sorry it just isn't!
Most of those pictures posted those women are all hourglass and their stomachs are fairly flat. I just wish people would stop deluding themselves.
I mean for example, if A&F starts selling plus size clothes what exactly does everyone think the models will look like? I'll tell you they will be size 12/14 flat stomach, hourglass shape. How is that necessarily positive? I just don't see it. It is just another ideal that most people cannot achieve. And I don't see how a person getting plastic surgery to achieve that is psychologically better than having an eating disorder.
I guess this A&F thing just annoyed me on several levels! :<
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But a size 12 with a flat stomach is a step in the right direction. They can't go from having size 2 models to size 14 with big bellies on display. The change needs to be gradual.
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05-24-2013, 04:04 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 229
S/C/G: 166/see ticker/125
Height: 5'3"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrocksong
I think I get it - the industry considers a size 10-12 woman plus size. You'll be hard pressed to find a 5'2 apple shaped woman who is a size 20 in any ads.
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This. Since when is a 10-12 considered plus size?? Whenever I see these plus sized ads, like in the Nordstrom Catalog, I find myself thinking, finally! An average sized woman! She doesn't look "plus size" at all.
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