Tough love for a friend- did I do the right thing?
So a friend of mine, for several months, has been having a "thing" with a married man. The the extent that when he traveled to another city for a conference for his work, she met him there. She says he's told her that he and his wife have an open relationship and that he's allowed to do this. I think that's probably baloney and would only believe that if the wife told me that herself, but for me the bottom line is this guy is MARRIED. He took vows. That makes him off the market.
My friend is very insecure and for some reason finds fault in every available guy she meets. "He looked homeless" "We had nothing in common" "He's too old". Maybe they are legitimate, and maybe she's simply looking for faults. I don't know if she'd actually date a guy that was single. She seems drawn to the ones who aren't emotionally available, for some reason.
Anyway, although I've deeply disapproved of her relationship with this guy, he lives in another city and I've pretty much kept my mouth shut. Until today.
The guy isn't happy at his current job and he's considering moving to the city my friend lives in. Not only that, she's trying to get him a job where she works. She wrote me this morning for "advice" on whether she should disclose that the job she wants him to apply for requires a certification he does not have.
This time I didn't mince my words. I'm not in the best mood today anyway, and I just decided it was time to say what I've been thinking. This is what I said:
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I’m probably not the best person to ask this, because the bottom line is that *** is married. I really wish and pray for you to find a guy that is free to love you the way you deserve to be loved, rather than having to take what you can get from a guy who is married. I’m absolutely positive that you don’t want to hear that, but it’s how I feel and it’s why I so rarely ask about ***. I have very strong feelings about the sanctity of marriage. I think it would be best if *** didn’t move to [city], because I can’t see this working out the way you want it to. I also feel compassion for ***'s wife, and have my doubts that she knows the full extent of what’s going on with you and ***. For her sake, I hope she doesn’t, and that she doesn’t find out.
In answer to your question, I think you need to be 100% honest with *** because this is his life and also greatly impacts his wife. It’s a huge thing to pull up stakes and move to another city AND another Country, and if he does he needs and deserves to know that he’s at least qualified for the job he applied for. Imagine what happens if he moves there, gets that job only to find out he’s unqualified and later loses the job. Then he’s in a new country and new city and has no job. Maybe that happens anyway, but don’t let it happen because you opted not to tell him a pertinent piece of information.
And I got back pretty much what I expected- a terse email saying, "Message received."
Is it the role of a friend to support their friends 100% no matter what their friend does, even if it's immoral, and even if it's something that's bound to cause heartache for several people involved?
Was I wrong in stating my feeling on this topic? Frankly I was very gentle, because I have VERY strong feelings about infidelity, and don't understand how my friend can place herself in the role of a homewrecker. I've been cheated on, it's incredibly hurtful, and now I'm watching my friend acting in the role of the "other woman" and I feel nothing but compassion for this wife that is being cheated on and she probably doesn't really know since in my experience guys say pretty much anything to women when they are trying to justify an affair.
I suspect this is going to end my friendship with her, which has been on shaky ground for some time anyway.
Personally, I think you did the right thing. If she hadn't asked for your opinion, I might think differently (though I doubt it).
You also handled the subject quite diplomatically, in my opinion. Your tone was gentle, but firm, and you didn't resort to name calling or disrespect even towards the married man.
On the topic of "open" marriages, there's one very quick way to determine whether a marriage is actually open or not, if she cares to know, and that is suggesting that she call the wife to see how she feels about this move....
In no way do my husband and I have an open relationship, though we joke about it. It's a private joke that's not so private anymore, but when hubby would go out with his friends (many of whom did have jealous wives afraid that the guys were up to no goood), I would joke "no cheap ho's," and he'd say "what's a cheap ho?" and I'd answer, "If you can afford her, she's a cheap ho." Then he asked "what about free hos," and I said "definitely no free ho's," and he said, "what if she's not a ho," and I said, "have her fill out an application and I'll review it."
This has been a long-standing joke with us, and hubby bartends a few hours a week. He's had some women flrt with him, occasionally even made nuisances of themselves about it, and so he tells them that he's married, and if that doesn't cool their jets, he'll tell them that he'll get an application from his wife for them to fill out (when this confuses them, he'll explain the fictional arrangement we supposedly have).
Hubby insists that if anyone ever agrees to fill out an application, he will bring it home to me (and I believe it, when it comes to practical jokes, he's willing to play it straight until the end - I can see him giving the person an application and a pen to fill it out... and eventually explaining that the candidate didn't meet our standards).
Most people "get" that this is a joke, but those who don't are absolutely horrified. None of them are at all interested in "meeting the wife" who supposedly has no problem with the affair.
I find it odd (and more than a little funny, which is why this joke has been so long-standing between us) that more women apparently are willing to have an illicit affair than face the prospect of actually meeting or speaking with the spouse who supposedly doesn't care.
And that's what I would have suggested to a friend in this situation, that she casually suggest to her married honey, that he, she, and the wife get together over dinner to discuss the arrangements. After all, if the "arrangement" with his wife is real, and she is aware of the situation, it's a reasonable suggestion.
Neither your friend or her lover of course will be willing to do this, because they both know that the marriage isn't an open one. A person in an open marriage doesn't move to be with his "on the side" relationships.
He's a liar, and your friend knows that, because the "numbers don't add up." If his wife knows, why would she move with her husband for him to be with an on-the-side lover (wouldn't she expect him to drop the relationship and find someone else)?
Now maybe it's an open relationship in the sense that the guy and his wife have agreed to stay together while looking for something better, but the problem with people willing to do that, is that for them it is's more than a habit, it's who they are. No no matter who they're with, they're always looking for something better to come along, and when it does they follow it.
Either way, it's a no-win situation for everyone involved.
I agree, she asked for your advice and you gave it to her. The fact that he's a married man and that they're in a relationship is completely relevant to the question too.
Unfortunatly we each have to learn from our own mistakes, you know, learning by doing and not by being told. In no way does this make what your friend is doing right, it just means that she'll have to come to that conclusion on her own.
I think you're a good friend for being truthful with her, even if it wasn't what she wanted to hear.
Real friends are honest because they know that the friendship is built on trust and not on flattery. If she doesn't see that, then maybe she isn't a real friend.
Bravo for you. I think you were fair to yourself and everyone involved. Your message to her was exceptionally well thought out and gently written. The ball is now in your friend's court to make her own choices. I think you acted respectfully and with integrity. Though she may not take it this way, I think you were a good friend.
If this is you speaking while being in a bad mood, you deserve an award.
I think you said it perfectly. Issues like this are so personal that of course she's going to be a bit offended...but I think you did the right thing.
A lot of the time people who have 'things' with married men are just afraid to let themselves be loved 100%, and it's easy to be defensive when you're afraid.
I hope your friendship doesn't end over this. I don't think you were out of line at ALL...but if it has been on shaky grounds maybe it has to. :/ <3
Thanks everyone. It does make me feel better. She and I have exchanged a couple more emails this morning with her becoming increasingly hostile and accusing. She isn't seeing that my email was written out of love for her and concern for the fallout of this relationship (she's particularly emotionally vulnerable, suffers from depression, and is suicidal, so a bad breakup could be catastrophic). Instead she just sees this as me being sanctimoniously judgmental and has made a point to toss in my own face that I'm not perfect but she doesn't judge me for it. I'm sorry she sees it as judgment rather than concern, because I truly am scared of the outcome of this relationship. She's also alluded to ending our friendship although she hasn't said it directly yet. I felt like she might. It's what's kept me from saying anything up until this point.
She asked and you answered. I know you didn't want to say this to her, but the situations rarely work out well. I have had friends ask me the same question my answer 'If you enjoy pain and heartache then go right ahead ." That may not change their minds but I haven't had anybody drop me as a friend over it.
She's probably being defensive and hostile because she feels deep down she's in the wrong and doesn't want to admit it. I find people who are trying to escape their own truth particularly defensive towards other people who are calling them out on their behavior.
EagleRiverDee, you're right! She's probably mad because she KNOWS she is WRONG!! Yes, it hurts when a friendship falls apart, but if you cannot see eye to eye on something as simple as fidelity then you are probably better off.
I've been the "one at home" & that hurt sooooo much when I found out. I can totally get why some people go ballistic & do real harm to their significant other AND their lover. I know I wanted to, but I also realized THEY weren't WORTH going to prison!
She is accepting sloppy seconds. It is clear she has little self-worth, if she did she'd want someone who can/would give her all his time & attention. You can guarantee that whatever HE is telling her is a BIG OLE FAT LIE!
Nothing, nada, zilch good can come out of this. He is CHEATING on his wife, I don't give a rat's behind if they have an "open marriage"...it's still cheating. Getting him a job at her place of employment? Oh, #ell no! Especially if he is NOT qualified...she would be putting her reputation & perhaps job at risk if she is going to vouch for him. If he does go to work at her place of employment does she REALLY think their "relationship" will be kept a secret & continue? Sound like a HUGE risk to me. It's a really good way to loose any respect people have for you, your job and maybe more. I'd hate to say it. but how many people have attacked the "other woman" & done physical harm or worse? TOO MANY!!
Sorry for the loss of your friendship. I know it hurts. But you can only wipe up the tears, listen to the frustration for so long. Stand strong. Any heartache is hers, and hers alone...cause she KNOWS that it's wrong, otherwise they wouldn't be meeting in other cities & cr@p like that.
If this is you speaking while being in a bad mood, you deserve an award.
this.
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Originally Posted by BreathingSpace
She's probably being defensive and hostile because she feels deep down she's in the wrong and doesn't want to admit it. I find people who are trying to escape their own truth particularly defensive towards other people who are calling them out on their behavior.
You did nothing wrong. You spoke your truth.
and this.
i wouldn't have been as kind as you. but you truly did handle the situation appropriately.
You have to be true to yourself. Quite honestly, were it me, I don't think I would have waited to be asked anyway. I would have just told her, straight off, once I knew about it that she was way out of line messing with a married man.
You were sooooooooooooooooooooooo right! She *asked* and you gave a kind but honest answer. The fact that she is considering being dishonest with him also speaks a lot about her.
Is it the role of a friend to support their friends 100% no matter what their friend does, even if it's immoral, and even if it's something that's bound to cause heartache for several people involved?
No. A real friend would never deliberately put you into that position.
Open Marriages are something you either understand or you don't. Without getting too much into detail, the fact that he may or may not be in an open marriage is completely irrelevant. From what you write your friend doesn't seem to have her sh*t together and neither does this guy.
Was I wrong in stating my feeling on this topic? Frankly I was very gentle, because I have VERY strong feelings about infidelity, and don't understand how my friend can place herself in the role of a homewrecker. I've been cheated on, it's incredibly hurtful, and now I'm watching my friend acting in the role of the "other woman" and I feel nothing but compassion for this wife that is being cheated on and she probably doesn't really know since in my experience guys say pretty much anything to women when they are trying to justify an affair.
A honest open marriage does not include infidelity. If it is a true open marriage she is not a home wrecker. In fact, she could bring something wonderful to their lives and their own marriage outside of his relationship with her.
I will say though, from the description - it all does sound a bit "off" and not very open marriage like. Like suggested, if she really is invested with him she should investigate their open marriage. Most open marriages are just that, very open. There are typically ground rules, veto power, etc.
Don't judge the concept of open marriages, judge the behaviors of people in them. It may not be your cup of tea, but that doesn't make it wrong.
Tough love for a friend- did I do the right thing?
I can totally get why some people go ballistic & do real harm to their significant other AND their lover. I know I wanted to, but I also realized THEY weren't WORTH going to prison!
but you truly did handle the situation appropriately. 
