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Old 05-24-2012, 10:50 PM   #31
Hi, I'm Lauren! :)
 
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I really want to talk to him about it but I don't know how/when to go about it. I feel like I could put it in a nice way that's not accusing him of anything, but I don't know when the right time to do this is. And honestly, if there really isn't anything going on, I don't want to make him think I'm needy/obsessive or whatever...

This happened with another guy, all though we didn't have sex; it was like when things looked like they had potential for exclusion, he dropped off of the face of the earth and when I called him to talk about it, he never answered and I never heard from him again. I don't see that happening with this guy because he hasn't just dropped off the face of the earth, but I don't want to make him think I'm obsessing about this. But then again, he did tell me communication was important so I don't know. I suck at thiiiiss! I'm such a coward, lol.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:06 PM   #32
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Well, what do you want?

If you want exclusivity, I'd tell him what you are looking for in a relationship. He can tell you if that is what he wants or not.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:11 PM   #33
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I feel bad for you. You were almost too eager for this to work out -- he caught onto that, and took advantage of it. Now I agree with your first poster, the vet guy who told you that you should talk to him in person -- texting and emails are no good becuz you can't see his face or hear his voice. Tone and inflection can tell you so much more about someone.

Right now, you don't know where you stand -- when you were talking, what were you talking about? You needed to talk more, and make out less. Honey, something went on ... you had sex with him at least two times; now that may not mean something to some people, but I think it did for you. So that is a relationship of some kind, but not the only one you wanted.

I may be going against the grain here but ... you have two choices: wait for him to call you or you call him. I would call him on the phone and ask him to meet you in a quiet public place where you can discuss where this is going; and be blunt (to the point). If he says no or stands you up; you will get a good idea from that. I don't think 4 days is obsessing -- my DH and I saw or talked to each other daily when we dated. We got married a year later.

Quote:
... when he said he wouldn't care if you had sex with someone else. When a guy says that, there is an implied "and you better not care if I have sex with someone else either."
This bothered me a lot and needs clarification for sure. You need to just ask him out right -- are we still dating? Are we an item or not? Don't be so apologetic about this. These are normal feelings/questions. I understand how you want some closure at this point. So just do it -- call him and get it over with. Oh, and make a list of questions you want answered, so you won't forget anything ...
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:12 PM   #34
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Simple. Call or email. Something like...

Quote:
"Hey, just wanted to check in. Because in the heat of the moment I didn't feel like we set ground rules all that clear. I had fun, and want to keep seeing you but want to be respectful and clear about being on the same page. So I'm getting the vibe we're not "attached" -- am I right? So are we keeping this casual then? Or was that a one time adventure? Is this like a longer FWB brewing here? Open relationship? Closed relationship? Exactly what is it for you and what are you looking for?"
There.

Then sort it out. But go in knowing what YOU want here. What do YOU want? You seem to either know what you want and be too timid about saying so boldly because you think it might not be "cool" to articulate or you haven't spent any time with yourself to figure it out. Which is it?

Whatever flavor you are -- from the most old-fashioned to the most daring -- you are just right for YOU. It's totally fine to be the wondeful YOU that you are.

What's not ok is muddling along -- stop not saying no clear.

That is like having the unspoken expectation of your partner

Quote:
"Treat me nice! Give me what I want! Without any clues or clear ground rules from me because I want you to be a mind reader so I don't have to deal with my timidity or think about what I want. Then if things go wrong, I can shoosh it all on you for not being omnipotent and looking after all my unspoken needs. "

Either say NO clear, or say YES clear. This wishy washy in between business is messing with your head. OWN IT.

If you are in a flip-floppity place in life right now, OWN IT, and don't date right now til you are more steady in yourself. Nothing wrong with that. Life happens.

He's just as faulty for not laying out his ground rules -- I'm chalking that up to you both being young than either of you being actual real scuzzbuckets.

You sound nice, but I'll be frank -- you sound really newbie too. Get yourself sorted.

Learn from this experience and start getting firmer about your desires and your wants on your calling card so you have a better chance at actually GETTING what you are looking for.

GET his calling card and ground rules. GET yours out there on the table. Take the tally and temperature check. Negotiate points if it looks like it could be a runner for a while. Part ways amicably if it just is too non-negotiable. It's just not a match up, or a close enough match up. Life is. Doesn't have to be horrible or that you failed somehow. It just didn't line up.

There IS no right one out there. There are MANY right ones -- it's finding the right one and at the right time! Sometimes the line up doesn't line up right at this time.

Where I was at 19/20 yrs old may not be what you are today. But I knew what I wanted. And I laid it out straight up. Some guys told me I was very scary and intimidating. (Not really interested in them -- I don't like wishy washy guys. There. Weeded out.)

Other guys told me I was refreshing and intriguing and a relief -- because they were used to women who were unclear and frustrating. (This was getting me to the pool I wanted to be dating in -- straight up talkin' people!)
My calling card at the time was something like this...

Quote:
  • When I was there, I wanted FWB, a sane one. I'd just broken up and I didn't want a big heavy thing. There's no past here. There's no talk of a future. This is in the moment only. (no negotiable)
  • I was up for sweetness and light for a hopefully a year. He'd just broken up and was at the same place more or less. I could negotiate on time frame -- a year, 6 mos, 3 mos.
  • I wanted to date other people, and he was free to do same. (if he didn't want to date others, I was. Deal, and don't pile jealousy at my door.)
  • I also enjoyed having a lover again, but I didn't want that to get all possessive and jealousy. That's a drag. (not negotiable. I will dump you.)
  • I wanted the sex hygiene clean. (Not negotiable. Any whiff of disrespect here and I dump you. I expect tests.)
  • I wanted to know if things were looking lover-like from another quarter if his dating people got to that place BEFORE it went down. So I could adjust my own health hygiene issues and decide if we were closing the door on being lovers now or dealing with a multi-person arrangement or what. (Could be negotiable on multi-person but NOT negotiable on knowing before it goes down. I was here first. Do me that one small respect. TELL ME. )
  • Everyone BYO protection. BCP and condoms. No glove? No love, dude. I don't need a baby. (not negotiable)
  • I didn't feel this was unreasonable to want -- that my OWN health stay squeaky clean! He ought to want same! Whether it be physical, emotional, mental or spiritual health! (does he have any reasonable wants to add here?)
  • In short, be real, don't lie, don't cheat on me and put my health at risk -- just TELL me when you want a new lover. There's no strings here. (And don't agree to no strings thing and then go make a nest of tangled strings. Solution? I dump you.)
  • What would happen to make YOU dump ME? (Listen to his list items)
We negotiated, agreed on the ground rules, and in a year we'd check in and have a state of the union talk. If it had run its course or what on the FWB front and renegotiate for changing needs.

Actually by a year's time I was over the heavy break up blues, so was he, and since he'd played so well as FWB, he got first crack at taking it up to the next level. That began a whole OTHER chapter. A whole new contract for ground rules.

But the point is -- we negotiated and renegotiated and checked in. There was no random muddling floating along. We both owned it for what it was, and we both own our own baggage.

So just be bold and OWN your own life. Life is not a dress rehearsal. Get on with it -- LIVE and OWN that show. Whether in relationships or not in relationships -- it is still YOUR life. YOU drive.

You say NO clear and park your car in the parking spot you pick.

You say YES clear and drive to a destination you want to get you to.

You do NOT start the engine, put it in drive, take your hands off the steering wheel to cover your eyes and step on the gas and hope you just muddle along well enough to get to... somewhere. In one piece.

Or hope the passenger beside you can drive good enough from where they are sitting to get you where you want to go without you telling them anything. Do they even have a license? How'd they get in this car anyway?

Sort out your calling card items and date people more sensibly.

GL!


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Old 05-25-2012, 03:11 AM   #35
Hi, I'm Lauren! :)
 
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Astrophe, I like the way you approach things, and you hit the nail on the head -- I AM a newbie, at least when it comes to relationships. I'm 22 years old and have never been in a serious relationship at all whatsoever; all the guys I've dealt with have either used me or just fizzled and didn't work out. Part of it has to do with a long-term battle with self confidence/self-esteem issues that I haven't fully gotten over yet -- guys catch on quick and they run far, far away. I don't really blame them, either. Who wants to love someone that doesn't love herself? And looking back to when I was heavier, I REALLY don't blame them. I've done almost all of my dating online, and I know in the early stages I would warn almost every single guy that they were about to get involved with a fat chick, like it was something "bad" about me. I'd offer up my "bad" qualities before they could even see my good ones. Now, although I've gotten over the being fat thing, I haven't quite come to terms with the fact that yes, I am okay, and that people can and will like me for who I am. I'm trying to hide that side of me from this current guy and I fear that it isn't working. The voice in my head that tells me I'm worthless has been ringing clear, and does ring clear with almost every guy I get involved with. They're ALL too good to be true -- why should this one be any different?

I'm really trying to be okay with myself and be more assertive and what not but damn it's hard, lol. I've never been able to just be like "K this is what I want!" because somewhere along the line it got engraved in me that what I want didn't matter as long as I was pleasing someone else -- that's what's going on here. I want him to be pleased with me, and I want to suit him. If it doesn't work, then I feel like I failed. I don't really know how to overcome that.
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Old 05-25-2012, 04:02 AM   #36
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There is no point to contact him.

You thought you had a connection. Who knows, maybe for a moment you did. But you don't now, for sure. Regardless of how he feels about you which you'll never know he doesn't have enough respect for you to be worth your time.

YOU NEED TO FIND A PERSON WHO VALUES YOU.

Just move on. Don't text him. Don't call him. Don't think about him. Easier said than done, I know.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:57 AM   #37
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The problem with making an assumption with someone so soon is that you are basing it on - what? - you don't know the person. There are times where I may assume things that my husband is thinking and be wrong, so to think you can get an idea of how an almost-stranger feels won't make sense.

I agree with JohnP, I don't see the point in contacting him. If he cared, this thread would not even exist. I'm sorry, I know it hurts, but in the future, insist upon real dates and withhold sex until you are comfortable AND the conditions are more clear/established.

I think if you contact him, he might take it as desperation - which at best, will be ignored, at worst, be taken advantage of again because I wonder if he could tell you a story and you'd believe it and give him another chance, just being honest.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
YOU NEED TO FIND A PERSON WHO VALUES YOU.
There is no doubt that this is what you want. I felt that from what you said. We all want that. And yes, there is a third option as mentioned here many times -- and that is to just forget him, and move on ... becuz I didn't like some of the things he said to you; but only you can make the final decision.

I wouldn't over-analyze whether a guy thinks you are desperate or not; to me what you want and need matters more. You are very self-conscious and insecure, but a nice guy would like you for you anyways, regardless of that.

So, the question is how do you know when a good one comes along. I would suggest all outside the home dates at the beginning. How does he show you he values you? Well, he's polite and respectful. He wouldn't be rubbing himself against you on the first date (none of my dates ever did that).

If you want a serious long-term relationship, then set some limits so they can't use you anymore. Maybe holding hands on the first date; and a kiss the second one. This is only a basic guideline. This is not about old ways vs new ways -- you are just trying to establish respect here. At the start, try to keep the relationship in "friendship mode".

That will give you time to get to know the guy and visa-versa. That means going out and doing something fun, and talk, talk, talk. You can't talk enuff ... Ask a lot of questions. That's how you find out what kind of guy he is; and where you stand every inch of the way.

When I was taking social work, experts suggested that you give a relationship at least 2 months (about 8 weeks) to be able to really know what someone is like. We all try to put our best foot forward. If someone is even a little pretentious, their true colors will start to show by that time.

Also, always try to meet his family as soon as possible. Why -- becuz they can't hide things from their family; and his family would tell on him. If he doesn't want you to meet his family -- be suspicious. If you go to his home, only go during the day for a short time to check it out, then leave.

Also try to meet his friends; they too can be a guide for you to see what kind of person he is, and what kind of people he hangs with. You can learn a lot about someone from their friends.

Hope this helps you in some way ...
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115 lbs + 16 Single Sizes Gone Forever! -- 100 lb tumor = ONEDERLAND!
Progress Pics: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/look...ml#post4361876
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:35 PM   #39
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Look, newbie or not, you STILL need to sort out your calling card.

So set the newbie aside. We ALL outgrow that. Not even an issue unless you want to make it one. Don't.

And set the self esteem aside for just a moment.

What IS your calling card for 22 yrs old? What are you looking for in a relationship?

I'm reading so far you want to

Quote:
date someone decent for a while (how long? 6 mos? 12 mos? )

possibly have it lead to a closed relationship that is exclusively dating just each other and going steady. (You sound like you prefer to focus attention on one person at a time rather than date many at once.)

you like to please your partner, so want feedback on this regularly so you know what's going well and what is not in the relationship. (Spoken? Written? Every day? Weekly? Monthly status updates?)

You need to know how partner wants to hear YOUR feedback on what they are doing well and you appreciate and what you don't prefer.

a plus size friendly person is ideal, pref with good manner that doesn't kill self esteem with self esteem eroding talk or habits. (It doesn't matter if they talk nice about YOU if they talk nasty about women in general. You are a woman, that would still ding you. YKWIM?)

That's a decent start. Where is the rest?

Quote:
Where are your deal breakers? What are they exactly? What could he do that would be an automatic "Dumpin' ya, dude!"

How are you expecting sex to figure in here? When do you prefer to get sexual in an rship? A month in? Longer? What's the birth control story for you? The STD checks? Even with my FWB, it was 4 mos after we met and were hanging out doing the non-dating-dating thing. Fly solo to take the edge off -- don't RUSH into sex. Even with a FWB.

If there is to be a break up, how you you prefer to be broken up with? In person? Straight up? Fade away leave me hanging? What?
Finish fleshing out your calling card first.

Think about what YOU want for a change -- just write it out. And don't stress over it. This is not the calling card for LIFE. It's just the calling card for 22. You can always make a new one if your life situation changes and you want something else at 22 1/2 or 23 or 24 or...

But make a firm calling card for your RIGHT NOW needs. And don't be surprised if in doing so, your self esteem meter rises a few points.

To grow self esteem, we do esteemable things. Personal growth like this counts.

As for this...

Quote:
The voice in my head that tells me I'm worthless has been ringing clear, and does ring clear with almost every guy I get involved with. They're ALL too good to be true -- why should this one be any different?
Quote:
somewhere along the line it got engraved in me that what I want didn't matter as long as I was pleasing someone else -- that's what's going on here. I want him to be pleased with me, and I want to suit him. If it doesn't work, then I feel like I failed.
Level the playing field. Stop placing yourself in such a poor position and these people on pedestals.

They are the judges? You are some kind of competitor in a race to win what? Their approval? That is not relating back and forth as equal partners. That's idolatry. That's a one way street and frankly -- I'd get boooored on a pedestal.

I was put on a pedestal once -- I was adored but never related to,interacted with. A two-way street.

I was made into some shiny trophy -- not paid attention to as a person. Brought offerings, shown off, but kept at arm's distance from any kind of emotional or mental intimacy because he didn't want me to see the "real him" or know his warts. So... I'm supposed to be happy with the shiny gift wrap only? Never see inside the gift?

I broke up with the guy. I lost patience.

Stop putting people on pedestals above you. Place them beside you so you can get to know them warts and all, and be friends, and perhaps more.

All of you are average 20's type people. No better, no less than the next guy until you get to know them a real people. When just meeting? All average.

You do not shine until you allow yourself to be the real you. They don't shine until they are the real them. It isn't that people are fake, but they are putting best foot forward in the beginning. To love someone, warts and all, there's going to the be the time for showing the warts. Be prepared to feel vulnerable when your warts pop out (prob with the self esteem thing) and be prepared to see warts in the other person.

What warts can you live with? Which are deal breakers?

I don't love WWII model planes, but I can live with DH having this hobby even though I think it's the most boring thing ever. I am polite, and say nothing, but assembling plastic chunks is not MY idea of a good time. But he's happy so I'm happy for him. A wart I can live with even if for me it means dusting endless toy planes. C'est la vie.

If his hobby was bar-b-q babies and flaying puppies, I'd have a problem. Not only would I dump him, I'd call the police! That's NOT a wart I can live with!

Keep this more real, and be kinder to YOURSELF.

Get what YOU want out of your life. You can do it!

GL!
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:41 PM   #40
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^^ Very well said.
Instead of worrying about what he wants, what's going through his mind, etc, just focus on yourself. You haven't heard from him since Monday (I think that's what you said, correct me if I'm wrong!)...do you want to be with someone who will go that long without contacting you? And prior to that, you said it was only you who had been initiating contact for awhile, which, even though you said he was responding, still says something.
You deserve to be with someone who wants to text you, talk to you, see you, just have some sort of contact with you everyday!
You sound SO MUCH like I was before I met my husband. I always worried what the guys wanted, worried that I wasn't what they were looking for, and I let them walk all over me. I had two guys just stop contacting me after we were seeing each other for awhile. It was like they fell off the face of the earth. At first I made excuses for them - they're busy, they're stressed, etc. Then when it was obvious that they weren't coming back, I blamed myself. It took a lot of experience and a lot of soul searching before I realized that I couldn't and shouldn't make myself into what someone wanted - if I wasn't what they wanted, no big deal, time to move on. I so badly didn't want to be alone that I kind of shoved what I wanted to the side, and just wanted someone to want me. But really, I should have been looking for someone who fit into what I wanted, rather than trying to change myself for someone else, know what I mean? I changed my attitude, and met my husband who treated me as I deserved, who was exactly what I wanted, and the rest is history.
Now, I'm not saying you're like I was necessarily...but you definitely sound similar in a lot of ways.
You're a beautiful girl, don't settle for anything less than what you deserve, which is to be wanted, desired, valued and cherished.
Even if this guy is just really busy, it takes 10 seconds to send a text message. In this day and age where there are tons of different ways of communicating, there's really no reason for having no contact for several days, busy or not.
I agree with Astrophe - define your own rules, and be kinder to yourself. You deserve it. Big hugs!!
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:23 AM   #41
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Yeah I'm in hate mode right now, lol. I kinda feel like even if he does decide to come back, I'm going to conveniently be "busy" too. I'm sick of the excuses. And it's the same response every time: "Sorry I missed you; I was [insert whatever is causing him to ignore me here]". And then nothing. I'm tired of it and I'm tired of being lied to and I'm tired of guys screwing around with me. How hard is it to tell someone you're no longer interested?

I get sad because I'm lonely and I don't really have any friends who are my age and nearby who are in the same point in life as me. Everyone is paired off, married and can't be bothered with me. So, not only was I excited to have a new guy, I was excited to have a new face in my life. And I got robbed of another life outside of my damn parents and family because people don't know how to think of someone besides themselves.

Meh. I guess I better just learn to be friends with myself.

Edit: For the record, that last bit wasn't me blaming my loneliness on him or anything. I was just in a really bad "I hate the world" mood last night, lol.
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Current weight: 184 (4/24/17)
Goal weight: Somewhere between 155-165lbs

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