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Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution in LA begins tonight

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Old 04-13-2011, 05:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicia89 View Post
I think the article has some bias but still raises a lot of excellent points. Any article is going to have quite a bit of bias, including articles that are just praising how great and awesome Oliver's revolution. And yeah, he is a very left-wing author so obviously the titles of his other articles demonstrate where is is on the political spectrum but I don't entirely see how that discredits all of the valid points he has made about flaws in Oliver's approach. I think we are probably in totally different spots politically so that is probably where the disconnect is but I don't want to get into politics on a diet forum. However, I don't see why you are so disbelieving of the fact that that Oliver massively screwed up the school's budget. This isn't some random sketchy fact that the guy drew out of thin air, it was a direct document from the school board as well as verbal testimony from members of the school board and people at the school. Sorry, but I just can't stand Oliver love fests because at times I feel that he does more harm than good. I know, I know, at least it's good that he is bringing awareness to the issues, but I feel that issues are being eclipsed in favour of making good reality tv, stroking Oliver's ego and playing into his persecution complex. That bothers me immensely. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I am still looking forward to watching the rest of the season.
I'm neither left nor right I'm right in the middle so I can't really be on the opposite end of the spectrum from anyone unless they are completey not interested in politics. I addressed the issue you said I was in denial about in my response which I get the feeling you didn't really read. Yes we will just have to agree to disagree although we both agreed the authors bias. :/
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:12 PM   #17
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I would like to see some studies on any improvement of health in the children at these schools. Without some real feedback on health, all he is trying to do is change what kids should prefer to eat by his standards.

I feel the main gist of the article is a lot of b!tching and no real suggestions for solutions. Many, many people can find fault with just about anything but to put forth any substantive ideas takes real thought. The only suggestion this guy had was to throw more money at the problem.

This is a complex problem with so many near and far ranging effects that no one will solve it on a TV show. It is first and foremost entertainment not a documentary. Much like any other reality show, conflict = drama. Many of the things he says and does is for affect much like the trainers on TBL or a Bible thumper at a revival. Jamie nor Gordon Ramsey are not as big of a$$es 'as shown on TV'!

No one can deny his program has inspired dialog on the subject which is a start.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:53 PM   #18
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I read every word of your response, and I think it's unfair of you to accuse me of not reading or listening. Nor did I every say anything so nasty as "you are in denial", so don't put words into my mouth that I didn't say. I expressed surprise that you were so skeptical of testimony from multiple people who are saying that Oliver was horribly over-budget. In your response you said that "they say that according to some document that isn't shown or referenced anywhere except vaguely to the government site says they were way over budget but ABC covered the costs and then they say that the school was saddled with unmanageable expenses. If ABC was covering the costs then the school would not be having that problem."

To me those words seemed to be implying that you think the document referenced is sketchy or possibly even fabricated. The article says that this information was obtained from a document issued directly from the Virgina board of education. You are certainly right that the document is not linked, but my guess is that alternet probably didn't have the permission to publish the document on their website or make it public. Not all internal school board documents and reports are always made available to the public, but sometimes relevant individuals like politicians, academics or members of the media may be given access to them even if the document is not available to the wider public. Of course it is ideal and important for journalists to list all of their sources, but this doesn't always happen in journalism when the documents are not in public domain. The reader has to assume journalistic integrity that the journalist is not fabricating sources or documents. of course if you don't trust the author's integrity or think he is too biased then of course you are free to disbelieve. Even if you think the budget document is entirely fake or untrue, there is still verbal testimony from several sources and school officials stating that Jamie screwed up their budget. So are those people lying too? If you don't believe that any of that is true then of course that is your right. I completely agree that obviously the budgets are pathetic and that many of the nutritional/caloric governmental guidelines are garbage, but the problem is that Jamie came in with organic chicken and tomatoes and tried to act as if any school could feed the kids that on the school budget if they just worked a bit harder. Totally disingenous considering that NBC was actually paying for much of the food.

And yes, I do think we are in very different places politically, since you made a sarcastic remark about the titles of other articles on the website like "U.S. Running A Military Occuption" (umm aren't they?) and "Hate and Violence Are Encoded in the DNA of the American Right". Btw, I'm not an American, so I don't have a bone in any american political discussion, but I do follow American politics very closely (because it's so much more interesting and dramatic than ours, largely because it's so polarized), and yes, I would agree that much (NOT ALL, I know there are plenty of lovely conservatives), but much of the american right is full of bigotry, prejudice, hate and violence, in my opinion. Have you seen vidoes like this: http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/03/sho...ty-california/ ?? This is a sentiment that is shared by many (again, NOT ALL), but many Canadians, as well many people in european countries, australia etc who are on the outside looking in at american politics. Of course, no developed country has any right to cast stones, we're all complicit in most of the world's problems, but I don't think it hurts Americans to at least be aware of how most people in other countries view their politics. And now I'm sure I've opened a can of worms, lol..

Anyways, we both disagree and it's just a silly tv show so I don't think I am going to continue debating it. Thank you for sharing your viewpoint and I do respect what you had to say. Have a great night!
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:36 PM   #19
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Didn't see any reference to these people's testimony that you keep talking about? Where are the references? They aren't in the article. The author doesn't quote any people? Doesn't say who said it. As far as I know the site isn't a major news network and most of its articles come from independent writers.

It's a TV show I expect them to be paying for everything including the kitchens.

All of those titles are clearly someones personal opinion. If you take things out of context and ignor the whole picture it's very easy to argue that almost anything is true. And I'm surprised you aren't American you certainly talk like one (no offence intended since I am one).

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Old 04-13-2011, 11:17 PM   #20
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I am really very passionate about the state of "food" in this country - everything from what's happened to all the plant sources to what our kids are eating in school. It's hard to find ACTUAL FOOD and our lives are so busy that when we can find it, who has time to cook it! I'm even a Jamie Oliver fan but I still found the last show way too contrived and staged to take seriously. I think his heart is in the right place, but the show was so heavily manipulated and edited that I just could not take it seriously.

I was so excited when the first season came out, I had just read Animal, Vegetable, Miracle and Omnivore's Dilemma and several other books of that nature so I was all fired up for a total overhaul of the American diet - and I still couldn't get past how fake and contrived this show turned out to be.
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