I have not been a member of these forums for very long. While I find the site as a whole to be an embracing, wonderful source of knowledge and support, there is an ugly element that surfaces from time to time: the man-bashing that happens here sometimes is atrocious and inexcusable.
(I should point out that I'm not a sensitive/PC individual - I'll make comments/jokes that will make your mama clutch her pearls and faint. I'm not out to judge or play the holier-than-thou card here (my atheism wouldn't approve, anyway)...I'm not addressing humor/jokes/whatever in this post - I'm addressing hatefulness.)
I understand that wires can get crossed: posts are sometimes poorly worded or mis-read. Like I said, I understand jokes. I also understand that the source of a woman's problem (meaning, where the issues stems from, not that he is automatically to blame) can be in a man: dinner with a skinny male counterpart that doesn't understand, lack of support from a male, a man being a douchecanoe and bailing on his family...these (and many others) are legitimate issues, issues that we can share here and help each other through.
However, taking one of those situations and twisting it in order to profess or imply that all men are pigs/lazy/incapable of real emotions/intimacy is not only incredibly immature, but degrading both to the men and women of this forum and elsewhere.
Gender-bashing is no different than any other form of prejudice. When someone says (for example): "Men are incapable of x"...replace the word "men" with any other race or creed. Have you (speaking broadly, to no one specific) even thought about what you're saying, or simply spewing hateful, ignorant things to make yourself somehow feel better or redeemed?
If that's the case, it may very well be that the issue lies in you, not just the man.
An individual can be deserving of harsh words...individuals earn their reputations. A person can seem incapable of real emotion. However, making hostile blanket statements about an entire gender based off of a few only make you look foolish.
By not directly contradicting these kinds of statements, silence on the matter can be interpreted (especially by outsiders or new members) as concurrence, which I find highly embarrassing. This serves to re-enforce the notion that forums with mainly female members are pits of gossip and the cackling hen variety of drama, which is yet another stereotype that I am personally working to disprove.
Meanwhile, the man who is the source of this negativity isn't being punished by these venomous words - rather, the good men out there are being done an injustice by being lumped into such a category.
I'm sorry if the examples of men in your life have led you to believe that or feel that way about the gender. Perhaps whatever has gone wrong was all his fault - perhaps it was all your fault. Most likely, it was a mix of the two. It really doesn't matter. Some men have these issues. Some. Just like some women do.
So, the tl;dr is the matter is this: watch it with the man-hating bullsh!t. It's getting really old, forum-wide. It isn't just blatantly insulting to males (including some of our very own forum members), but to all of us and the warm, welcoming image that a support-based website strives to maintain.
I'm sorry is this is a bit scattered - I'm both frustrated and somewhat copy-pasting from a post that I made in another, recent thread.
I think non-supportive men can definitely be destructive to a woman's diet and mental state.... but by far not all men are like that! My boyfriend has a GREAT sense of humor about my healthy eating lifestyle and has been my rock during my weight loss.
Personally, when I see things that are 'male bashing', I rather point them out in the specific posts. Depending on the issues, there can be a lot of emotions in play. I would say that this isn't junior high and the grown up way is to talk to the person directly and/or report the thread. The moderators do look at each and every reported post although we can't always look at every single thread on the site.
Also, we have had a number of threads in the past which talk positively about the men in our lives as well as our own male members
I would say that this isn't junior high and the grown up way is to talk to the person directly and/or report the thread. The moderators do look at each and every reported post although we can't always look at every single thread on the site.
Also, we have had a number of threads in the past which talk positively about the men in our lives as well as our own male members
The instance that sparked this has been addressed in it's thread - I suppose this thread is for all of the times that I merely bit my tongue and let it go.
Perhaps the "this isn't junior high" line is inaccurate projection: as you've pointed out, there have been many great threads and most members here don't make such comments/accusations/blanket statements (on that note, my apologies to any junior-high aged people that have their head on straight).
I'm not asking for more specifically pro-male threads...rather, I'm trying to point out that making statements (especially in an accusatory/negative) about a gender as a whole is every bit as ignorant as making those statements about race or religion. It makes the person who stated such things look immature, and reflects negatively on the site as a whole.
Not trying to make an argument, but I am trying to be clear.
In all honesty, I think it's a general stereotype that people play on. Men are "supposed" to be pigs. Look at TV, for instance. On many shows there's the smart, attractive woman and the oafish male she married. It frustrates the heck out of me and my husband.
I have noticed more male-bashing on the forums lately. Unfortunately, you are right. There are women on here who have known awful men (myself included), but that does NOT make it ok to say, "Men are pigs!!" or some such thing.
I think in general, if you take more control of your life, if you don't allow yourself to keep dating the same kind of men (the "bad" ones) or stay in a relationship with one, or just simply tell the guy he can't treat you that way and MEAN it, then that stereotype will go away. It's very easy to say, "Well HE did this, or SHE did that" and use a stereotype because it's the easy way out. You don't have to accept responsibility for what you contributed to the problem.
Yeah, there are piggy men out there, but there are great men too. Lots of them.
Where exactly are these posts you're referring to?
To link to the specific example I have in mind would be similar to shouting: "look at what THIS PERSON did!". The issue has been addressed in the thread where it occurred (which is confrontational enough for the time being), and I made this broader thread to address the issue, not the individual. Even if we don't see eye to eye, I'm not looking to cause embarrassment.
To explain:
In the thread I'm referring to, the OP explained a situation in which her now-ex did something horrible and, basically, everyone agreed that what he did was horrible and that calling him horrible would not be unjust. One person chimes in that all men are that way. There was nothing tongue-in-cheek about it - it was simply spiteful, especially considering the OP's subject.
Anyway...most of the posts I'm referring to have been over time. It's not like there is a sudden rash of STUPIDBOYSIAMWOMANRAWR sweeping across the plains of 3FC. This is simply an occurrence of something that I have noticed for a while (even in small samplings) and decided to address.
I do not want to make an example of a specific person.
Just to put my 25 cents in..is it not possible that what you consider "man bashing" is actually just a women ranting about poor circumstances at the time in whatever anger or emotion she is conveying? I mean..dont we all say things that we dont mean when we are angry or unhappy? I know that countless times i have said some nasty things to my fiancee when ive been angry at him and he has said some nasty things to me back in the heat of the moment.. We all do it..Perhaps these women are not trying to men bash, perhaps they are expressing there own emotions in the moment and perhaps she is saying things that at the time maybe mean or not nice because she is angry in that moment..but she doesnt mean it? I mean, is there not rational and then irrational thought? Isnt it true that we all act un-rationally at time? I, mean, i agree whole heartedly that to discriminate or to be severe with someone and to do it to an extent where it hurts the person, is not healthy or good.. But perhaps these are upset and angry women who are angry about there circumstance and need someone to listen? I mean..maybe the women has no one else to talk to in that moment and here is where she comes to seek support? Im not talking about the kind of support in which the other women say " yah he's a ---" fill in the blank with whatever they would say.. but the kind of the support that says " im going to listen and be here for you and encourage you but not bash the person". If you want to talk about immaturity..forget the person posting in the heat of the moment..what about all the women and men who agree or say that this man is.. bad or unkind.. or.. whatever they think..I mean, they dont even know the person, they only know what the poster has wrote..thats it.. So is it fair for them to even re-mark on the character of that man without knowing him? Or wouldnt it be better if the people were speaking to the situation and not the person? For instance instead of saying "this man is a ---" They could say "this circumstance is ---" and then show some understanding?
And by the way, im with other people on this..If you have a personal issue with what someone wrote regarding bashing of any kind..do you not think that it would be more mature to personally write the person and talk about it? Or at least the moderator instead of bluntly addressing a personal topic so publicly in the forum in which the person you are adressing can be humiliated or singled out in the thread??? Go to the person in private if you can, if not , talk to a moderator and let them handle it..
Last edited by Porthardygurl; 03-05-2011 at 12:04 AM.
Reason: forgot to add one more thing
Im not talking about the kind of support in which the other women say " yah he's a ---" fill in the blank with whatever they would say..
That is what happened. Someone came in with an emotional subject and someone else responded not with "it's okay, I'm sorry he's a jerk", but with "It's okay, all men are jerks".
That is where the problem lies. While hateful things said in emotional reaction are still wrong, they are spontaneous and usually not too well thought out. Misusing a hateful thought as fact will (intentionally or not) spread that hateful thought. Even if misery loves company, that action is not acceptable.
Again, while a specific post served as a catalyst for this thread, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. "You" in my initial post needs to be taken in a general manner, not specifically targeting one person.
Quote:
And by the way, im with other people on this..If you have a personal issue with what someone wrote regarding bashing of any kind..do you not think that it would be more mature to personally write the person and talk about it? Or at least the moderator instead of bluntly addressing a personal topic so publicly in the forum in which the person you are adressing can be humiliated or singled out in the thread??? Go to the person in private if you can, if not , talk to a moderator and let them handle it..
The one time that I've PMed someone on the subject, the response was "when men quit being a**holes, I'll quit calling them a**holes". Which is a nice, rational mindset to try to speak with. I'll also state, again, that I am not trying to use anyone as a specific example.
Please read all of the posts in a thread before attacking someone's maturity or ideals. I've essentially spent this entire post re-explaining things that have already been said...I'll go back and re-read my posts, try to find where I have been unclear.
Whatever happened in another thread is irrelevant - I simply said that to explain why sentences may seem jumbled. Had I not mentioned the other thread, you would not have assumed a specific catalyst and, therefore, would not be chiding me for attempting to "publicly humiliate" someone.
The point is that cruel or rude remarks based on gender are as unacceptable as every other form of hate speech.
You do bring up an interesting point - who are we, as forum members, to judge someone based on someone else's words? My thought is that the support given is in the "In the situation you have stated, I too would feel this way" sort of manner. All we have to work with are words, and so everything must be taken with a grain of salt.
it is especially troubling since we have male members. How would any one of us feel to log in and see a comment like some made about our gender? how welcome and included would we feel?
And by the way, im with other people on this..If you have a personal issue with what someone wrote regarding bashing of any kind..do you not think that it would be more mature to personally write the person and talk about it? Or at least the moderator instead of bluntly addressing a personal topic so publicly in the forum in which the person you are adressing can be humiliated or singled out in the thread??? Go to the person in private if you can, if not , talk to a moderator and let them handle it..
All we have to work with are words, and so everything must be taken with a grain of salt.
Don't read threads that have stuff in them that you don't want to read.
If someone's ranting about their man troubles, there's gonna be man bashing in there. Same goes for mother-in-laws, siblings, etc.....
And if anything offends, take it with a grain of salt.
i agree with the idea of this. we shouldn't be making blanket statements about anyone. even when i think someone's actions weren't right, i don't think of that person as a jerk. i don't know them in person, so in most cases i wouldn't assume everything they do is wrong.
i have not seen male bashing on here myself. just comments that oh he's a jerk, just focusing on that individual.
I see a lot of unfair attitides every day in real life too, and the problem with "calling everyone out" is that often they're expressing their own world, as it seems to them. It's "true" in their perception, and no amount of you telling them they're wrong is going to make them see it, until they see exceptions to their own rules for themselves. Sadly there are people with either incredible bad luck, or something in their personality that attracts horrible individuals. You'll find men who have never had a single positive experience with a woman, and therefore hate us all and think we're all alike. Likewise there are women who've never had a single positive experience with a man, and therefore hate them all and think they're all alike.
Scolding these people does not change the facts in these people's lives. In their world "all men" or "all women" are evil creatures, and no amount of "play nice kids and never say what you believe is true because it's an unpopular view" is going to change their world.
It's sad, but "your truth" isn't always the same as other people's truths, and telling people what their truth "should be" doesn't make it so.
Enough is enough! This isn't junior high!
