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MEAT vs. CARROTS

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Old 11-02-2009, 08:46 PM   #1
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Wink MEAT vs. CARROTS

I know sometimes we have gotten a bit heated over issues concerning eating meat and veggies...

let's not do that here...ok....

I believe in moderation....

unless it concerns beer...cheese...chips and love for family...friends...golden retrievers and 3FC gals!

You all know that.....

I am against cruelty to animals in any way shape or form....

I also believe from my entire heart God gave us animals for food....

I belive there has been much abuse in these issues...

My sister has breast cancer, many of you know this and thank you all FOREVER for your prayers

Her daughters want to start eating better...which by coincidence Angie and I have been discussing becoming more "vegetarian"...and less meat eaters...

I will discuss further if this thread grows....


What I would like to know is your experience or thoughts on becoming vegetarian...eating or not eating meat...

basically just eating better...I think we can do this with meat...

what do you think?

Share with me here gals...
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Old 11-03-2009, 03:20 AM   #2
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I love meat...I crave it. Although with that being said sometimes when I eat it, it makes me sick. I hate seeing veins, the bones, and chowing down on it brings me back to the reality that an animal was killed and Im eating it and it quite frankly grosses me out. So I dont eat wings or chicken with bones, etc.

Its a weird love/hate situation however I dont think I would ever be able to go without having it. You can definitely live a very healthy diet with meat...like you, I think it was put here for us and provides us with many nutrients we need. Although you can be vegetarian and substitute those nutrients I dont think you get quite the same "quality". Its just in my opinion though....Im no expert, nor have I really looked at what being a vegetarian takes so its just me rambling.

I would easily be able to limit my meat intake though without completely cutting it out so perhaps I'll have to start working on that. I love animals so its kinda sad that I eat them. Its a tough subject...it'll be interesting to see a couple points of view!
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:25 AM   #3
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I don't think we could ever go completely vegetarian. Ever. Nothing wrong with it, but it's just not in the cards for my husband and I.

We are trying to cut back on consumption of red meat, though. When we first got together and I started cooking dinner 5 nights a week, we'd have ground beef probably at least 4 of the five nights, then go out to eat on weekends and likely have more.

These days, MAYBE once a week we'll have beef. The rest of the time it's chicken or pork, or even meatless meals like soups or salads. We're having beef tonight, but it's the first time since last Wednesday for my husband...and longer than that for me (he cooked a steak at home last week...I'm not a steak fan so I did something different).

As for feeling bad when I eat chicken or pork or beef or fish...I just...don't. Maybe that makes me a bad person...

My husband's take on eating beef, in particular, comes from the fact that raising cattle for human consumption is what kept his grandma and grandpa clothed, fed and in a home for many, many years. They raise meat to eat, so we should eat it, in his mind. The only thing he feels badly about and refuses to eat is veal...he knows where it comes from, etc., first-hand, and won't touch the stuff...
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:57 AM   #4
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I'm an animal lover too, but I also eat meat. If your family wants to keep meat as an option, I would suggest going free-range and organic -- it's a lot more expensive (at least here, dunno if it's everywhere), and at least the animals don't suffer as much in their life and death as mass-produced, mass-fed, mass-killed beasties. I know that some people would say it doesn't matter because they're dying anyway, but I think quality of life does count for something in the great scheme of things. I also think avoiding excessively hormone-fed and antibiotic-supplemented meat is a good idea for general health.

I don't think it ever hurts us, really, to eat more vegetables and grains, but I'll be honest. I like my meat too.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:28 AM   #5
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I also think avoiding excessively hormone-fed and antibiotic-supplemented meat is a good idea for general health.
SO totally agree with this statement. Haven't studies been done that show that the rapid maturation of kids these days is somehow related to all the hormones ingested from various foods, especially chicken? (Or did I just get that from an episode of House? )
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:29 AM   #6
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Organic is high around here, too, serendipity....we're talking $8 a pound for chicken that's free-range...
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #7
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I love love meat but I realize that I need to eat more veggies. Kill or be killed, is my saying. I know that stands harsh but hey .......
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:37 AM   #8
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Well as far as 'free-range' goes, that just really means they aren't in cages. They are usually cramped indoors and never see sun light or touch grass but that is definitely better than the cages. I looked into pasture raised chicken eggs for my dogs because I have some difficulty with one of my dogs. When I did, I was shocked how even pasture raised can mean a bunch of chickens in a fairly small shared cage but they have grass under their feet instead of concrete. The pasture raised chicken eggs I buy for my dogs is from a farm not too far from me and the chickens do have a fair amount of space.

I think there is a lot of good information out there and I have to say that I went vegan for health reasons. I read about cancer rates, diabetes, heart disease, etc. From reading all that, I think dairy is actually one of the worst things you can eat. In terms of animal treatment, dairy is also one of the worst industries in how animals are treated. Eggs are probably the best in terms of animal products and health and you can find farms moving towards more humane treatment of egg laying chickens.

I initially started going toward vegetarianism because as I started to eat better, I started to lose my taste for meat. It was such a strange thing because I used to love meat. I then read The China Study and other information about vegetarian/vegan diets. I think Eat to Live is a good book to read and it gives recommendations on what animal products to eat if you are going to eat them.

Anyway, I was headed down the path of being a very cheesy vegetarian and with no thoughts of being vegan but I was convinced dairy wasn't healthy and gave it up and meat and eggs all in the same day. I even had steak the night before as I really didn't think the change would happen so quickly for me. I did have a couple relapses, specifically when I went out of the country on an already planned trip. I just didn't feel good and the foods didn't taste good to me anymore.

I have to say I love the food I eat now. I cook a lot more and enjoy cooking a lot more. It is funny when I pull out my lunch and want to clap because I'm so excited (uhh yes, I'm strange).

Lastly I will say this as I know it is a touchy subject and it is hard for me to tell people this. If you have cancer or are at risk of cancer, there have been people who have successfully fought cancer. There are also some amazing stories I've read about people who had cancer, went vegan and miraculously recovered. I take stories with a bit of a grain of salt because I've never known anyone personally but I think it is possible if you are feeding your body 'bad stuff', then your body can't heal yourself. If you are eating lots and lots of veggies, whole grains, legumes and fruit, then I think it can fight diseases.

Oh and I highly recommend a visit to Sipz on Clairmont Mesa Blvd
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:50 AM   #9
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I think the early maturation of our kids is due to a high fat diet and high body weight, rather than the hormones in the food itself. http://www.everydayhealth.com/specia...ted/index.aspx

I don't think that protien in the form of animal protein is bad for you or prevents you from recovering from cancer. Animal protein is not under the category of "bad stuff" because it is animal protein. If you get humanely raised, grain or free-range, hormone and antibiotic free animal protein, it is not a bad food nor does it prevent anyone from healing from anything. It can actually HELP you heal from surgeries, help you replace blood cells, help you maintain your health.

Animal protein is one source of protein. There are others. What you choose comes down to what you choose to believe, but to suggest that you won't recover from cancer if you aren't vegan or that you won't heal yourself if you eat meat is in my humble opinion alarmist and just a bit offensive. It puts the "blame" for not recovering from disease on the sufferer when in reality sometimes people just recover from diseases or they don't. I'd hate to have a cancer sufferer read the post above and feel that he/she is to "blame" for their lack of response to a course of treatment. Sorry to have read this in the post above, and sorry if my response sounds harsh.

Last edited by misskimothy : 11-03-2009 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:50 AM   #10
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I love meat...chicken, beef, seafood, veal, lamb, duck...ect..I love chewing on chicken bones and eating beef marrow and various organ "meats" (being raised in a Mexican family will do that to a person lol" The only meat I'm not fond of is pork. Pork leave me feeling like i have grease all over my face for some reason. bacon, porkchops...ribs...if it's pork it leave a oily feeling on my skin and in my stomach...maybe I'm just weird.
I have gone vegetarian for various amounts of time. I think 3 weeks was the longest I ever went. i do it for health reasons, I always feel better and ultimately I lose a good bit of weight by cutting out animal products. But I have to eat like 5 pounds of veggies and fruits to make my calories. (that's like 2 heads of lettuce minimum every day not counting the other veggies and the fruit. ) Personally I don't have time or the jaw strength to munch that many calories in veggies. So I cheat and add avocado to my meals. (because I can only take so much beans and tofu.)
I also love milk and eggs and I can't seem to kick the habit even when I go through a "No animal products." time. I've tried that Silk...the soymilk. My father loves it to death but personally I can't stomach the stuff.

I think everyone should try going without meat for a while. it forced me to stretch my creativity in preparing meals. But I could never go permanently vegetarian.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:55 AM   #11
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I was veg for a couple of years - honestly I felt GREAT for most of it. Living at my parents' house for a summer is what brought me back to being an omnivore. My dad is a strong believer of "all things in moderation" and I was having some issues with anemia.

I definitely second what Sakai said about stretching creativity in meal prep - I have tons of recipes from my veg days and I still cook without meat a lot. I tried many things I wouldn't have considered when growing up because we were a "meat and potatoes" family, so I loved learning what kinds of healthy and delicious things can also be made without meat!
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:12 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by misskimothy View Post
I don't think that protien in the form of animal protein is bad for you or prevents you from recovering from cancer. Animal protein is not under the category of "bad stuff" because it is animal protein. If you get humanely raised, grain or free-range, hormone and antibiotic free animal protein, it is not a bad food nor does it prevent anyone from healing from anything. It can actually HELP you heal from surgeries, help you replace blood cells, help you maintain your health.

Animal protein is one source of protein. There are others. What you choose comes down to what you choose to believe, but to suggest that you won't recover from cancer if you aren't vegan or that you won't heal yourself if you eat meat is in my humble opinion alarmist and just a bit offensive. It puts the "blame" for not recovering from disease on the sufferer when in reality sometimes people just recover from diseases or they don't. I'd hate to have a cancer sufferer read the post above and feel that he/she is to "blame" for their lack of response to a course of treatment. Sorry to have read this in the post above, and sorry if my response sounds harsh.
Misskimothy - I think you misunderstood me or took my comments to the extreme. I do think excess animal protein (and really it is a mix of things including the hormones and everything else that comes with it) can be bad for your body. I also think you can follow a vegan diet and eat 'bad stuff' that can stop your body from healing. A vegan diet doesn't necessarily mean healthy but I do believe a whole foods vegan diet is healthy. I also didn't say someone wouldn't recover from cancer if they didn't eat a vegan diet.

When I said that I know there have been people who have successfully fought cancer, that is both on the meat eater side and vegan side. I didn't make a distinction because you can't. I also didn't say 'eating animal protein means you won't recover from disease' but I do truly believe that if you eat lots of whole grains, legumes, veggies and fruit, your body can fight disease. From what we are barely learning about antioxidants and phytonutrients and everything else, I think having a diet heavy in those products will only help you. Whether you eat animal products as part of that is up to you.

I think it is important information to share though that societies who lean heavily towards veganism have extremely low rates of cancer. why is that? we don't know exactly. Although there have been studies that animal protein can 'feed' cancer, especially in excess. We also know that things that exist only in vegetables and fruit can help fight diseases.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:21 AM   #13
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Nelie, I don't think so. When you state:

I think it is possible if you are feeding your body 'bad stuff', then your body can't heal yourself. If you are eating lots and lots of veggies, whole grains, legumes and fruit, then I think it can fight diseases.

the implication is clear. Sorry but I also think that you get this reaction alot when you say stuff like this because of your comment:

Lastly I will say this as I know it is a touchy subject and it is hard for me to tell people this.

It seems pretty clear about the implications you are making and I think you are aware of how what you say may be taken due to the phrase above. I have many people close to me who have cancer or who have recovered from cancer. They are people who need compassion and love and being led to believe that if they feed their bodies the "good stuff" of which animal protein doesn't make the cut they will heal themselves doesn't add to their recovery process. They go through alot of self-blame as it is -- do I have cancer because of where I live? Maybe it was the water because I didn't drink the bottled stuff. Maybe I ate too much X. Maybe it is my fault.
So to read your statements is understandably a bit distressing for those of us who have loved ones who suffer.
As for cancer rates -- well, just be aware that in China it is a social taboo for a woman to have breast cancer. As a result, women won't seek care for the condition, and families won't report deaths related to breast cancer. The statistics as a result show a "lower rate of breast cancer" but this is a lower REPORTED rate, not a lower disease incidence rant. Two completely different things, with two completely different interpretations. For years, the one conclusion has been "wow, they don't eat meat and rely on soy and their cancer rates are low. Vegetarianism is GOOD and this proves it." The newer interpretation is "We believe cancer rates are the same, but societal taboos prevent diagnosis, treatment and reporting of cancers." Please don't overlook or underestimate the impact of societal and cultural beliefs when it comes to cancer or other disease processes.

Last edited by misskimothy : 11-03-2009 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:36 AM   #14
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Misskimothy - Although China was where the huge study was done as part of The China Study, it isn't the only country and it wasn't just breast cancer, it was all types of cancers. It is possible that reported cancer rates are low but actual incidence isn't but it would have to happen all across the world and all across different types of cancers.

I've known people who have had relatives die recently of cancer. Honestly, the last thing I want to tell those people is to have their relatives look at their diet, even if that is what I truly believe (although it isn't a replacement for modern medicine in anyway). I did have someone I talked to recently and did encourage that person to look at a whole foods diet and I think that diet can play a part in disease. I only said it because I think they were open to it. Otherwise, I'd say nothing.

So, you may disagree with my intent but my intent was to say clearly what I said in that if you eat lots of whole grains, legumes, vegetables and fruit, that you can fight disease. Diet can have a role in disease and I believe this strongly and I'm not sure anyone on this site especially would disagree. Whether they eat animal products or if they don't.

And I also wanted to add that if someone told me they were eating a vegan diet and eating chips, crackers, cookies, lots of processed products, etc, I'd tell them the same thing. Look at their diet and cut out the junk and add in the good stuff. After all, french fries are vegan (well except at McD's)
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:15 PM   #15
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Has anyone heard of the Vegetarian Mondays? It's a movement started by Paul McCartney who has been a vegeterian for years. He believes that people can greatly influence not only their health, but the entire produce/meat industry if people cut out meat on one day of our the week.

We have planned meals at home and we include at least 2 meat-free days in the week. We reduced our consumption of beef, and tend to eat lean proteins like chicken or pork. We also have revised our portion sizes because they used to be around 10oz across the board, now they're 3-6oz.

As far as the whole idea of vegeterianism, I'm ok with folks who want to do that, I wish I could. My body needs protein to function and I love meat. My doc has told both me and my husband to steer clear of soy because we are in our childbearing years and trying to conceive. I don't buy the whole vegan thing, I actually think it's unecessary unless you have some kind of allergies or medical problems. I have a friend who's vegan and makes her kids suffer with her life style and her kids seem sickly. It's fine to live off berries and wheatgerm if you're an adult, but why would you deprive your children of the nutrients they need? Give the kid some cheese!!
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