yeah, i think i have more of a problem with the sparkling vampires than the quality of the novel. i love horror, and in general, vampires don't sparkle, nor can they BE IN THE SUN.
I'm really enjoying reading everyone's views here . I know people who refuse to read the series and people who absolutely love it. It's a personal choice and of course, I respect that.
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
I read them partly because I plan on going into publishing, because my friend recommended them, and because I worked at a book store and every other teen girl who came in bought them. I was curious.
Bottome Line: I still wouldn't have read any series or books *twice* if I hated everything about it . In fact, I would have barely made it past the first one.
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Originally Posted by painted lady
...yeah, i think i have more of a problem with the sparkling vampires..
This series is supposed to be fiction. Vampires sparkling is her version of how a vampire is supposed to be. Vampires are fictionional characters unless of course, you've read about or *met* J.R.Ward's brothers . In fact, if you pick up any vampire novel every author has brought in their own version of what a vampire looks like, feeds on, behaves etc. When I decided to read the series, for me, it was pure entertainment, fluff, girl-meets-boy formula...call it whatever you want...I never expected it to be a literary masterpiece.
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
It's mindless entertainment
Exactly!It's not supposed to be a literary masterpiece. Read it at face value for what it is supposed to be. A work of fiction.
As for abstinence, I think there's nothing right or wrong about it. To me, it's a personal preference. Coming from her background I'm not surprised she portrayed that in her book. Healthy or unhealthy depends on your perspective.
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
...And i don't think that books like Twilight are good for teenage girls to read because the relationships portrayed are so distorted and it gives a bad idea of what a relationship is actually like.
I guess, that's where family values and togetherness comes in. For example, another member posted that reading these books helped open up a two-way conversation path between her and her daughter. I'm sure with a healthy conversation/discussion with your teen and explaining what is good or bad is a good way to avoid distorted visions about *anything* in life. Plus, take a look around, it's not just teens but so many adults out there (with their *so called* knowledge) who knowingly end up in a *bad* relationship.
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
...Yes, I am a book snob but only because I respect them. I don't think that people who like Twilight are idiots or anything like that.... only that they deserve to read better. Books with actual substance...
Well, honestly, I think you're just a snob . I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you...just having a BA in Eng Lit does not make anyone a literary aficianado. I know people (without an Eng Lit degree) who are exceptionally well read & articulate and still enjoy reading *fluff* like Twilight or any other series for that matter. And, as for the readers of Twilight deserve to read better books...well, we really can't say, can we? that they haven't read better books, books with substance!
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
...It's not that great of a story. It's totally generic and the same formula of any romance novel. Girl meets boy, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. And then a love triangle ensues, boys fight over said girl. Girl chooses. And everyone is happy at the end! And don't forget the vampires who *sparkle.* Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read in a book...
Yet, you read it twice!
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Originally Posted by sunflowergirl68
...Harry Potter is a excellent series...
Yes, I do agree with you there. I love the HP series. But, I would not compare it with Twilight.
yes, every author who writes something about vampires does it differently, but there are some inherent vampire characteristics that don't change: they drink blood. they cannot go into the sun. they can be killed by decapitation, sunlight, or a wooden stake through the heart.
i know it wasn't supposed to be "horror," but sparkly vampires make me squidgy.
It's not that great of a story. It's totally generic and the same formula of any romance novel. Girl meets boy, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. And then a love triangle ensues, boys fight over said girl. Girl chooses. And everyone is happy at the end! And don't forget the vampires who *sparkle.* Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read in a book.
It's mindless entertainment that's poorly written and also gives an unrealistic and dangerous portrayal of a relationship. Just because so many people liked it doesn't mean it's a good series. Harry Potter is a excellent series. Twilight is mediocre at best.
I guess you arent understanding the idea of what a story is. So if may follow a "romance genre" guideline of boy meets girl, love is forbidden, boy leaves girl. ..... But its HOW those things happen that makes a story. Your arguement really lacks substance because you talk about how horrible, terrible and dumb it is and yet you've still read it twice.
"Just because so many people liked it doesn't mean it's a good series. "<<< this comment in particular makes no sense. You've said it yourself "SO MANY" people absolutely adore this series, if its not good then what? "So many" people are just ignorant and only read and reread books that are crap? I have yet to finish a book I thought was crap, if I dont like it I stop reading it.
As far as the sparkling vampire being so dumb and it being an unrealistic relationship, lets not forget that vampires aren't real...so none of it is realistic! Its just a story for entertainment. If you dont like it, dont read it.
I understand that you dont like it, thats totally fine you are entitled to your opinion, but at some point you've got to look at the proof, its a great story and a great series. Just because you are so adverse to it doesnt make it crap, its just not your cup of tea. Millions of readers and movie goers cant be that wrong.
Well, all I can say is that I and my DD enjoyed these books and the discussions they inspired, very much, and regardless of how well written they are they have certainly captivated MANY readers and seem to have inspired quite a lively discussion on this thread.
Enjoy your week end everyone.
I have my BA in English Literature. I read books and wrote papers for my degree... so needless to say, I know what the purpose of a story is.
My problem, like I said above, is that the relationship is abusive and is upheld as ideal by Meyer.
And yes, it does make sense that just because a lot of people love it doesn't mean that it's a good series. A lot of people like crap. Like Dan Brown. Most people don't know what good literature is. Most people haven't read Thomas Mann or Gunter Grass or Toni Morrison or Faulkner.
And like I said above, I only read it twice because I wanted to know why I liked it the first time around, and on my second reading, hated it. It was one of those "What was I thinking?" moments.
And me and you might realize that it's fiction, but teenage girls are, let's be honest, quite stupid when it comes to relationships. They might take it and want something like that. That's my main problem, and also, people going on and on how good they are, and they're not. People will forget about them in 10 or so years, while people will continue to read writers like Faulkner and Mann for decades and decades and centuries to come.
FYI, I said this before like three times, I didn't hate it the first time around. Then I started reading criticisms about it like the article in B*tch, so I decided to read it again and see why I liked it the first time around, and paid attention. And the more I paid attention to what she wrote, the more I hated it.
And I think that the sparkly part is stupid. She only chose to make her vampires sparkle because it was in her dream. Not because she wanted to create a new kind of vampire genre or do a new twist.
Young Adult books can be excellent. Look at Harry Potter. I think teenagers deserve better than what Meyer writes.
as for abstinence, sure, but you have to look at it from the perspective of the book. The only reason he won't have sex with her because he thinks he'll kill her. So she bribes him into sleeping with her. The only reason why she agrees to marry him (she's against marriage, remember) is so she can have sex. That's my problem with it.
Another problem is that she portrays an unhealthy relationship as ideal.
If you want to sit there and tell me my comments aren't legitimate and that I don't know good literature (and good popular fiction) despite having a degree in English Literature, fine. I know what a good book is. Twilight will not be remembered in 10 years or so. One of the marks of a great book is longevity, something that Twilight does not have, and nor does Meyer as a writer. It's a fad and it'll fizzle out.
Last edited by sunflowergirl68; 07-18-2009 at 05:40 PM.
I have my BA in English Literature. I read books and wrote papers for my degree... so needless to say, I know what the purpose of a story is.
My problem, like I said above, is that the relationship is abusive and is upheld as ideal by Meyer.
And yes, it does make sense that just because a lot of people love it doesn't mean that it's a good series. A lot of people like crap. Like Dan Brown. Most people don't know what good literature is. Most people haven't read Thomas Mann or Gunter Grass or Toni Morrison or Faulkner.
And like I said above, I only read it twice because I wanted to know why I liked it the first time around, and on my second reading, hated it. It was one of those "What was I thinking?" moments.
And me and you might realize that it's fiction, but teenage girls are, let's be honest, quite stupid when it comes to relationships. They might take it and want something like that. That's my main problem, and also, people going on and on how good they are, and they're not. People will forget about them in 10 or so years, while people will continue to read writers like Faulkner and Mann for decades and decades and centuries to come.
No offense but your degree doesnt impress me nor does it make you a literary mastermind. The last people I ever listen to on a review are critics who think because they've studied film or hundred year old literature they are somehow an expert on pop culture. I could throw my college degrees around as well (both of which I had to read books and write papers for) and where would that get us...nowhere because it all comes down to personal taste.
I also think you are underestimating teenage girls. I have a teenage daughter and I can assure you she is most certainly not stupid. I think you are forgetting its not just teenagers that love this series.
I can understand and respect that you dont like the series...fine, I'm good with that, that is your opinion. However, I draw the line at your insinuations that any of the millions of us that DO like the series are ignorant and poorly read. I find that highly offensive and insulting.
My opinion is that its a great story, great mindless entertainment, a great summer read that may be here today gone tomorrow but thats okay with me! Does every book have to be a Pride & Prejudice or Robinson Crusoe? I think not, and why do the haters take it too seriously and try and make it so?
Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!
Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!
I love this. LOVE THIS.
It reminds me of when people get up in arms about "the music today" and how violent or provocative they think it is. It absolutely is... in today's terms. Paganini was one of the greatest musicians and inspiring composers ever and people were convinced he had the devil right there in his fingertips. The Magic Flute by Mozart was regarded as the same (even today the story is a bit sensational!).
Perspective people, perspective.
I read Twilight and wasn't impressed, but then again I'm 27. I KNOW I would have been all over it as a teenager and even a preteen. If I had a daughter I would not care one way or the other if this is something she chose to read. One thing I am forever grateful for is that my parents NEVER censored anything I read or listened to. They figured that even though some (or a lot) of the music or books (and magazines) I read as a 13 year old were pop culture crap, I was smart enough to decipher the difference.
So yeah, I read a lot of really bad stuff and listened to even more bad stuff, but I was also reading Malcom X and listening to Debussy.
Perspective...
I don't know what college degrees have to do with pop culture either. I think people throwing Lit degrees into a discussion about a piece of pop culture is somehow correlating it's validity with that degree, when it's really not intended to be.
That's sort of like me using my music degree to defend Nickelback as great musicians (or not defend them).
i'm not trying to throw this in anyone's face, but i'm in school to become a librarian who works with teenagers. if teens want to read Twilight, they can read Twilight. teenagers are smarter than we give them credit for. my gripes with it are the sparkly vampires (they don't jive with me) and the pro-Prop 8 connection. teens WANT to read this and other "read-alikes" (if you liked Twilight, you'll like Vampire Academy, the Morganville Vampires, etc.).
and teens wanting to read is fine by me! (as long as i don't have to spend my own money to buy the books and give more money to Meyer.)
Last edited by painted lady; 07-19-2009 at 05:00 PM.
The point was to compare a musician who is not critically appreciated, but loved by the masses and/or popular culture, which I find to be similar to the Meyer series.
I don't care enough about Nickelback to debate their merit as musicians.
No offense but your degree doesnt impress me nor does it make you a literary mastermind. The last people I ever listen to on a review are critics who think because they've studied film or hundred year old literature they are somehow an expert on pop culture. I could throw my college degrees around as well (both of which I had to read books and write papers for) and where would that get us...nowhere because it all comes down to personal taste.
I also think you are underestimating teenage girls. I have a teenage daughter and I can assure you she is most certainly not stupid. I think you are forgetting its not just teenagers that love this series.
I can understand and respect that you dont like the series...fine, I'm good with that, that is your opinion. However, I draw the line at your insinuations that any of the millions of us that DO like the series are ignorant and poorly read. I find that highly offensive and insulting.
My opinion is that its a great story, great mindless entertainment, a great summer read that may be here today gone tomorrow but thats okay with me! Does every book have to be a Pride & Prejudice or Robinson Crusoe? I think not, and why do the haters take it too seriously and try and make it so?
Lets not forget how dangerous a relationship Romeo and Juliet had!
And if you knew **** about Shakespeare you'd know that the story wasn't originally his, and he makes a point in the Prince's speech that it was a senseless tragedy. Anyone who actually read Romeo and Juliet knows that they were being rash teenagers who knew each other for less than a week before killing themselves, and that it isn't romantic, and isn't supposed to be romantic and is a tragedy
I said teenage girls are stupid about RELATIONSHIPS. I was one 10 years ago. I know what I'm talking about because I was stupid about the "relationships'" I was in.
And yes, anyone who thinks that Twilight is a good series is ignorant and poorly read.
It reminds me of when people get up in arms about "the music today" and how violent or provocative they think it is. It absolutely is... in today's terms. Paganini was one of the greatest musicians and inspiring composers ever and people were convinced he had the devil right there in his fingertips. The Magic Flute by Mozart was regarded as the same (even today the story is a bit sensational!).
Perspective people, perspective.
I read Twilight and wasn't impressed, but then again I'm 27. I KNOW I would have been all over it as a teenager and even a preteen. If I had a daughter I would not care one way or the other if this is something she chose to read. One thing I am forever grateful for is that my parents NEVER censored anything I read or listened to. They figured that even though some (or a lot) of the music or books (and magazines) I read as a 13 year old were pop culture crap, I was smart enough to decipher the difference.
So yeah, I read a lot of really bad stuff and listened to even more bad stuff, but I was also reading Malcom X and listening to Debussy.
Perspective...
I don't know what college degrees have to do with pop culture either. I think people throwing Lit degrees into a discussion about a piece of pop culture is somehow correlating it's validity with that degree, when it's really not intended to be.
That's sort of like me using my music degree to defend Nickelback as great musicians (or not defend them).
And like I said five ****ing times, I'm going into publishing. So I HAVE to know what people are reading and what is being published if I want to be good at my job. And I also want to make sure not to publish crap. Meyer had a horrible editor (on top of being a horrible writer) so it's my job to prepare not to let that happen.
And yes, my degree in literature has a lot to do with popular culture, since I also did editing and publishing.
And of course if you have a degree in music, you know more than the average person about music, and you know what good music is and what ****ty music is.
I want teenagers to have better. I was reading Toni Morrison when I was in high school. They should be reading GOOD literature, not ****. Reading crap like that only makes you stupider when you're young.
Last edited by sunflowergirl68; 07-19-2009 at 09:52 PM.
The point was to compare a musician who is not critically appreciated, but loved by the masses and/or popular culture, which I find to be similar to the Meyer series.
I don't care enough about Nickelback to debate their merit as musicians.
heh, i was kidding. Nickelback drives me insane, but they aren't really on my music radar.
i wouldn't go as far as to say that anyone who reads Twilight and likes it is ignorant and poorly read. that's judgmental and mean. i was a huge Lurlene McDaniel fan when i was a teenager (especially Don't Die, My Love), and i am not ignorant, nor poorly read. i hate the concept of "classics," too. most of the classics i have read did not grab my attention or make me want to read more. since i am going to work with teenagers, i need to make sure i keep up with current trends in teen literature; right now, one of those trends is supernatural/horror-tinged romance. i'm not going to judge teenage girls because they love these books.
and as far as teenagers being stupid about relationships, i would say that teenagers are teenagers about relationships. stupidity has nothing to do with it; it's a developmental stage and their emotions are just as valid as an adult's.
and as far as teenagers being stupid about relationships, i would say that teenagers are teenagers about relationships. stupidity has nothing to do with it; it's a developmental stage and their emotions are just as valid as an adult's.
. I know people who refuse to read the series and people who absolutely love it. It's a personal choice and of course, I respect that. 
. In fact, I would have barely made it past the first one. 
. In fact, if you pick up any vampire novel every author has brought in their own version of what a vampire looks like, feeds on, behaves etc. When I decided to read the series, for me, it was pure entertainment, fluff, girl-meets-boy formula...call it whatever you want...I never expected it to be a literary masterpiece. 
