was just thinking as i was brushing my teeth...agreed that if you require more of a service or product (room on an airplane) you probably ought to pay for the additional product/service. on the flip side, maybe amusement parks should charge obese people less, because the rides aren't designed to accommodate them. if you can't ride the roller coaster, should you have to pay the same admission fee as someone who can? hmm...
I'm not sure that this is an issue that can or should be legislated, but I think there are definitely ways in which passenger expectations and airline practices can become unreasonable on both sides, and are worth discussing. Without legislation, then it's up to the passenger/consumer to vote with their business. If they aren't happy with any particular airlines practices, they shouldn't fly that airlines.
That doesn't mean this is a non-issue. I think the problem with saying that it is or isn't a disability based on whether it's your fault or not, is ridiculous. Let's not use the word many - but some obese people are obese as a result of a disability or of an illness other than simply obesity. Some physically disabled people are disabled because of a bad choice or many bad choices. Making a distinction between a disability that is your fault and one that you may have been able to avoid is ridiculous.
Even when accounting for disabilities, there's no right to a certain amount of space on an airplane. There are disabled people who cannot fly commerically, because their disability is such to make air travel too difficult to be worth it - the airlines can't accomodate the person and their medical equipment (and probably shouldn't be made to). "Reasonable accomodations," are nearly meaningless - as everyone is likely to have a different idea of what is "reasonable."
Most people who complain about the practice of double-seats, surprisingly aren't complaining about the practice itself, but how it is carried out. There aren't any consistent practices, and generally it's determined at the counter where an airline employee looks you up and down and says "you need two seats." There isn't a private area where you can sit in different style seats and "see if you fit." You may (on the same type of aircraft) be allotted one seat and on a different flight, be told you need two.
That there isn't a consistent (or at least discreet) process for determining who needs a second seat, and under what circumstances, is what most people who complain about the practice are complaining about, not the additional charge itself (there are of course, exceptions). One person who overlaps the seat by 1/4 of an inch may be asked to pay for another seat, and someone who overlaps the seat by several inches may not be asked to pay for another seat.
Trial seats sure would be nice, especially if the placement were discreet, but personally, I wouldn't care if the "trial seats" were at the ticket counter. I really appreciated amusement parks doing this at the beginning of the ride lines. I could check before I got into the lines whether I would fit in the ride's seat. Sure it was a little embarassing, but nothing compared to realizing as I tried to wiggle into the rollercoaster seat that I wasn't going to fit. Some of those ride seats though, I have to say seemed to be designed for pretty tiny people - I couldn't have gotten one butt cheek on some of them.
I don't know how many styles of airline seat there are, so I don't know how practical it would be to provide test seats, but if the amusement parks could do this, it seems ridiculous that the airlines can't. Knowing that there's no way to plan ahead of time to figure out whether you will or will not fit, and/or whether you will or will not be charged is the traumatic part of this for many.
If I'm traveling with my super skinny sister, and she doesn't mind sitting in the seat I'm overlapping into - should the airlines get to decide that I need a second seat or can we just ask for adjoining seats and tell them we've done it before and know it works? Are there guidelines for determining that I need a second seat, and are they applied consistently or arbitrarily?
If I'm traveling with my also-obese husband, do we each have to buy two seats, or can we travel together and buy one extra seat between us (obviously this would only work with planes that have at least three consecutive seats - if there were only two, we'd have to sit across the aisle from each other and each would require the extra seat)?
As I've been researching this, I've been finding that the practices are more arbitrary and inconsistent than I expected. That I think is a shame, because there's no reason that an obese person should have to be afraid of flying because they don't know what to expect at the ticket counter. Sure if money is no object, you can always buy an extra seat "just in case," but if you're on a tight budget and one of the borderline cases that may or may not (flip a coin) be asked to buy the second seat, I can definitely see where it can be quite stressful.
I've heard horror storries of obese people asking for two seats, being told they didn't need two seats that they would fit fine, and then being asked to leave the plane by the stewardess because they hadn't purchased two seats.
It seems that in this day and age, the problem shouldn't be that difficult to address.
What if all the seats were bench seats....we all had to pay $X for each square inch we took up. We could buy X-tra space for our own comfort between other passengers....we would all pay the same price for the average butt size...then a few bucks for each inch of space we took up for whatever reason after that...
now...who will volunteer to determine average butt size?
My bf who is in a wheelchair said if he had a daily option to be handicap or not, he'd choose not to be tomorrow. You have a daily choice to eat like a pig or not. Being obese is a daily choice. Reckless accidents are a one time choice (he dove into an above ground pool at 16 and has been in a wheelchair for 20 years now). Over eating is a daily choice, his accident was a 1 day choice he has paid for dearly ever since.
While majority of the obese are so by their own fault, it isn't always so. The problem is is that it is nearly impossible to determine who is truly obese because of a medical condition, and those who are just lazy. Even the ones who have a medical condition arent always doing what they can to change that.
I am actually in the process of trying to gain a few healthy pounds after losing a little too much, does that mean i get free peanut butter?
Ok, so if a person is wheel-chair bound because of a life-time of poor choices (perhaps alcohol-induced for example) then they shouldn't get the same care and respect as a person who made a single bad choice, right?
Maybe we should tattoo (well, let's use permanent dye, so we can periodically review and update the number) the foreheads of fat and disabled people with a number - the % of fault they had in their situation. Hey, lets do it the poor, the mentally challenged and mentally ill folks too, maybe for people we don't like for any reason. Those that have a "legitimate" reason for their situation get a lower number, and get treated with a corresponding amount of compassion, respect, and assistance.
So who gets to decide "how much fault" your life situation is, and how much respect and compassion you deserve as a result?
Ok, so if a person is wheel-chair bound because of a life-time of poor choices (perhaps alcohol-induced for example) then they shouldn't get the same care and respect as a person who made a single bad choice, right?
So who gets to decide "how much fault" your life situation is, and how much respect and compassion you deserve as a result?
Amen to that. I'm really ... flabbergasted ... at some of the opinions being expressed by some people in this thread.
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As far as paying for 2 seats goes, I would agree that if someone cannot fit into the seat and spills over or infringes on the passenger next to them, that passenger should not have to be inconvienienced.
Plus sizes cost more than misses sizes in clothing and we all seem to accept that.
The problem is that it's very subjective as to when a person doesn't fit. And it needs to be handled in a manner as to not make it embarrassing.
can't they just switch out a few rows of regular seats for a bit larger seats, charge a little bit more like you would to fly first class and call it good?
a friend of mine was singled out of line in front of everyone waiting and told quite rudely that he needed to buy another seat, it was very humiliating for him. they need a system that is private and one that works.
I understand them wanting to charge extra for an additional seat but it seems to me that with a bit of modification they could accommodate people and make more money at the same time.
I'll make sure to remember though if I ever am singled out in public and accused of being to obese to fly - that I remember that it's my fault for choosing to eat like a pig my entire life- i'm sure that will give me comfort.
.....too funny! I can see it now...American ~ United ~ Southwest ~ Double Wide Airlines
