Kaplods and I seem to be on a similar wavelength here.
My guy likes to watch porn. He and I both are fairly sexual people in general and we often joke with each other about other women/men. He is also a photographer and will often call or text me from a wedding he's shooting and tell me that his bride is *hot* or that some woman has awesome boobs. It's a running joke between us ... sometimes if he hasn't texted me right away, I"ll text him back and say I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten the boob review yet.
My friends are often shocked that I "allow" this ... but I don't see that it's something that I have the right to "allow" or "disallow". This is part of who he is and his sexuality and love of women is one of the things that attracted me to him. To try to restrict that now would be hypocritical of me.
I also know that no matter how much he may joke about some woman having amazing boobs or an amazing a$$, it's all surface for him and he is one of the most amazingly respectful men I've ever met and really enjoys the company of women - rather than just seeing them as sex objects.
In my experience, men who are really into women - I mean as people and to enjoy their company and their intelligence as much as their looks - enjoy the whole package - including the sexual end of it. And I know that my guy isn't all "surface" because he and I started our relationship when I was at my heaviest - so whatever he may say about Ashley Judd having a perfect body (*grin*), I'm the one he's taking to bed with him.
Woo!! I just love your responses, Kaplods and Photochick. I'm joining your bandwagon. I was cracking up at the "No cheap ho's" dialog and the wedding boobs
I'm on the same wavelength as kaplods and photochick. My husband (second marriage) and I joke around about stuff a lot.
One of our favorites is, he'll say something as if he's repeating himself, and I'll say something indicating he hasn't told me that before, and then say, "It must have been your mistress you told that to." Or vice versa and it will be -me- with the lover.
If he wants to watch/look at porn, I have no issues with that. I know that he loves me and even if <insert hot woman here> made a pass at him in a way he could take complete advantage of it without my ever finding out, he'd decline. The same is true for me. We both had horrible first marriages with all the distrust and problems that arise from it and we are perfectly happy with and trusting of each other.
Now, I think the problem here is not so much the porn, but the fact that he did it behind your back and hid it from you.
I'm not condoning the fact that he, in essence, lied, but I will say that you, in a way, brought it on yourself. Trying to force someone to be something they are not will only cause rift, dishonesty and lack of trust between you. Understand and accept him for who he is - that is the person you married.
When I was with my ex, he was adamant that I HAD to stop smoking. I smoked before we met, while we dated, and afterward. I stopped when I was pregnant and nursing. He expected...no, he demanded of me that I stayed quit. So what happened when I stopped nursing and wanted a smoke? I wound up smoking at work only and leaving my cigarettes there...in essence, lying to him because I wasn't being up front. That was my mistake. I should have been directly honest. At the same time, he should not have 'put his foot down' and demanded I change into something I wasn't. If an adult person wants to change, they will change, and no amount of wheedling, demanding, whining or refusing to accept them the way they are will force them to it earlier.
You need to come to terms with your own issues about your husband. Learn to accept (and love!) him for who he is and what he does and not try to change him.
Bring the issue of the porn out in the open (stewing about something is not emotionally healthy) - make sure you let him know you love him and the issue is not the porn but the fact that he did it behind your back.
Good luck with your relationship, I wish the best for you!
Kaplods and I seem to be on a similar wavelength here.
My guy likes to watch porn. He and I both are fairly sexual people in general and we often joke with each other about other women/men. He is also a photographer and will often call or text me from a wedding he's shooting and tell me that his bride is *hot* or that some woman has awesome boobs. It's a running joke between us ... sometimes if he hasn't texted me right away, I"ll text him back and say I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten the boob review yet.
My friends are often shocked that I "allow" this ... but I don't see that it's something that I have the right to "allow" or "disallow". This is part of who he is and his sexuality and love of women is one of the things that attracted me to him. To try to restrict that now would be hypocritical of me.
I also know that no matter how much he may joke about some woman having amazing boobs or an amazing a$$, it's all surface for him and he is one of the most amazingly respectful men I've ever met and really enjoys the company of women - rather than just seeing them as sex objects.
In my experience, men who are really into women - I mean as people and to enjoy their company and their intelligence as much as their looks - enjoy the whole package - including the sexual end of it. And I know that my guy isn't all "surface" because he and I started our relationship when I was at my heaviest - so whatever he may say about Ashley Judd having a perfect body (*grin*), I'm the one he's taking to bed with him.
FWIW.
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Wow... Do you know that your relationship sounds almost exactly like mine? My guy works as a maintenance man in our community and he always tells me about the cute lifeguards at the pool and the hot chick with the nice rack that just moved in down the street, yada yada. I'm bisexual so I love that kind of thing, as well, so he's doing it more to drive me crazy and then he takes care of me after he gets home from work :wink:
I'm with the majority on this, in terms of my relationship, our shared philosophy on flirting and finding others attractive, and the healthy sexual behavior that is "fantasy" (and that is defined differently for men and for women, as has already been discussed here).
For me, the "issue" would be the secrecy.
Obviously, everyone is going to have a different level of comfort with pornography, fantasy, online "worlds," etc., but FOR ME, in a relationship, there should be very few--if any--real secrets. So, I'm actually pretty "okay" with almost anything, as long as it's not hidden, filled with shame, somehow squirreled away in another part of my lover's life.
So, would you have the same level of discomfort with your partner's choices if he were looking at a magazine? Or watching a video on TV? Or seeing a peepshow type performance? Is it the "hiding" of it that's the problem? Or is it his need for fantasy that causes you stress?
Because for me, it's always been the "hiding" that's more stressful than any of the, "Ooh, he thinks she's prettier than I am," or "...skinnier than I am," or "...more sexy than I am," stuff (also because my partners have always--I'm incredibly lucky this way--affirmed that I am the hottest, sexiest, most wonderful woman they've ever been with, which I know is very helpful with my tolerance level for any of the fantasy or real-life flirting stuff).
Just as I wouldn't want my husband to hide a bank account from me, I wouldn't want him to hide a part of his sexuality from me either.
But I think the American mindset is quite "closed off" sexually; way more conservative than other cultures. And often most of our "issues" with fantasy and sex are based in "shame" which is just a... well... it's a shame!
The only reason I would be upset, if I were in your shoes would be if I learned my husband were going to great lengths to hide the behavior from me and/or communicating with strangers who were doing "on demand" sexual acts for him via web-cam or something like that. I think looking at attractive people (in person, in magazines, online, wherever) and becoming aroused isn't a huge problem (unless it's an addiction or somehow deviant in nature--and then, by whose definition is "deviant" defined, really?), but there is a line somewhere, and for me it has to do with honesty and the balance in our overall relationship.
Not sure if any of that is helpful, but that's what I felt compelled to type, after reading this thread thus far.
Good luck to you!! Hang in there and good for you, seeking out some advice and compassion.
Edited to say quickly that I'm quoting 2 different people here ... just forgot to add atributes.
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he always tells me about the cute lifeguards at the pool and the hot chick with the nice rack that just moved in down the street, yada yada. I'm bisexual so I love that kind of thing, as well, so he's doing it more to drive me crazy and then he takes care of me after he gets home from work :wink:
Hahah. That made me laugh out loud for real. When we first started seeing each other I'd teasingly roll my eyes at him ... now when he texts me he waits for me to roll my eyes ... and we joke that the day isn't complete unless I've given him a good solid eyeroll!
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Just as I wouldn't want my husband to hide a bank account from me, I wouldn't want him to hide a part of his sexuality from me either.
But I think the American mindset is quite "closed off" sexually; way more conservative than other cultures. And often most of our "issues" with fantasy and sex are based in "shame" which is just a... well... it's a shame!
I agree with grace on both of these! I think it's possible though that his hiding it has to do with knowing that the OP would be upset. I could see that either he's hiding it because he knows she'd be angry or he's hiding it becuase he doesn't want her feelings to be hurt or both. Or, honestly, he could be ashamed of it a little. As grace said above, Americans tend to have issues with sex and I know that my husband used to hide his porn from me, even though he knew I didn't have a problem with it and even though he knew I knew ... just becuase he was raised to believe that it was something shameful.
It's too bad really ... I think we should all be honest with ourselves and our spouses/SOs about our sexuality. It's just something that (here in America) is looked on as shameful or forbidden.
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Last edited by PhotoChick; 06-29-2008 at 01:59 AM.
It's too bad really ... I think we should all be honest with ourselves and our spouses/SOs about our sexuality. It's just something that (here in America) is looked on as shameful or forbidden
We live in a place/culture where sex gets a movie an R rating, but violence will earn it a PG-13.
Parents seem to teach their kids to cover their eyes when a kissing scene comes on screen, but not when someone is eviscerating another.
It's totally natural to imagine that someone feels stress over having his/her sexual "needs" discovered by another party. It's a part of our culture, sadly, that it would "feel" weird.
Once we get past the shame associated with fantasy, masturbation, and speaking frankly about our sexual attractions/needs, I think a LOT of our issues will dissolve away.
But I know that's a big uphill climb, simply based on the very root of our culture, in most places.
Patience, caring, understanding... these things will help a lot. But yeah, if there's a chronic secret-keeping going on, that's an issue much larger than anything strictly sex-related, and that's worth dealing with on another level entirely.
First you have already stated that this bothers you, you have ask him to quit and he either can't or won't. To me that is a bad sign. He is either addicted or dosn't care enough about YOUR feelings to bother making an effort.
You are asking strangers to tell you how you should feel when it is clear that this bothers you. You KNOW in your heart how you feel. There are good reasons for this-not everyone feels porn is OK.
Many people have moral objections. Just because millions of people do something doesn't make it right.
Porn makes sex a selfish act, clearly not about the other person, but focusing only on self gratification.
Contrary to common belief, porn does not help a marriage. Divorce lawyers are now claiming that Internet porn is a leading cause OF divorce.
Porn IS addictive and tends to esculate. What starts out as "mild porn" once a week, quickly turns into raunchier and more frequent porn. Everyone I have ever known about that is additive to porn has started out with soft porn. Pretty soon that is no longer enough and they slip into riskier and more forbidden acts onscreen to tantilize-often using underage girls or violence. Part of the allure of porn is the forbidden...Come on now, porn does not excite men by depicting average looking women having conventional or even slightly wild sex-it is always ranchy and taboo breaking. Don't tell me that none of those images come back to help exicte a man when he IS having sex with his wife. Sorry, I DO NOT want MY husband thinking about those women and that context when he is with me...
Pornography, as an industry, feeds and breeds rapists and child molesters. No, not all men who view porn become child pedators or rapists, but why support an industry that clearly portrays such things and encourages them?
Personally, I would not stand by and enable my husband to use porn any more than I would enable him to have affairs, drink to excess or gamble our savings away. I do not have to allow destructive behavior to keep my husband or have a good marriage. (He has no access at work and does not have an account on our home computer by his choice - he works with computers all day and doesn't really enjoy them that much). This does NOT make me "insecure" in my relationship - It makes me smart and not sadly naive. I would counter with the fact that those of you are are fat and feel unattractive may allow more leeway than you admit to being happy with because of YOUR insecurities. Woman who feel no one else would have them tend to allow more abuse from thier BF's or husbands than those who think they have options.
I have held the hand of many a sweet and sad woman who was convinced a little porn was OK, only to have it downslide into addiction and/or actual affairs and/or financial problems - Another issue of porn few address - it ends of being costly in actual dollars as well as the other costs.
And one doesn't have to be immoral, before or after marriage to have a happy marriage-I don't understand where that idea has come from. We have been happily married 34 years, so I think I can say we've done something right.
And, BTW, I am done with ths board so all the flaming and nasty comments will only be for each other - I won't see them.
I have heard on a sex radio program, dr rachel, that it is OKAY for them to do that, as long as it isn't an addiction, like as long as he can still do it with you, and go to work and sleep normal hours, then it is normal.
I have heard on a sex radio program, dr rachel, that it is OKAY for them to do that, as long as it isn't an addiction, like as long as he can still do it with you, and go to work and sleep normal hours, then it is normal.
"Normal"? *shudder*
Some of us and our partners aspire to be something other than "normal", knowing that "normal" people eat at Mc Donald's, drive gas-guzzling SUV's, lie to their spouses on the regular, don't stop to help where they see it is needed and "pass the buck" at every given opportunity.
I'm glad to see arguments from both sides of the threshold on this topic, because it is both very personal and very controversial.
In my opinion, not everyone who watches porn is going to become addicted to it, and not only rapists and child molesters watch it. And I'm pretty sure most of my friends' parents probably have their own homemade stash in a box in their closet somewhere. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I don't think it's that much of a shocker. The human body having sex doesn't offend me or shock me any more than if I saw two lions going at it at the zoo.
While I'm glad to see both points of view, I do think it's telling that someone with only 10 posts here decides to post a rant that's not based in fact and then make a grand exit complete with invitation to flame.
And I think it's worth discussing some of the points she threw out before she left in a huff (apparently at the moral decay of the women on this board who are open about their sexuality).
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First you have already stated that this bothers you, you have ask him to quit and he either can't or won't. To me that is a bad sign. He is either addicted or dosn't care enough about YOUR feelings to bother making an effort.
I disagree with this. I'll go back to my analogy about chocolate. Or actually, let's make it coffee. Say my husband felt that drinking coffee was immoral because of the way it was grown and processed. Say he felt VERY strongly about that and then told me that I couldn't drink coffee because to do so would be disrespecting his feelings. But I don't agree with him that coffee is bad in that way and I am upset that he would force his moral code on me - so I chose to drink coffee when he wasn't there to see me. Does that mean I don't care about him? Or that I was addicted? Nope. It would mean that we had a basic disagreement about the issue and that we needed to talk it out. It might be something that is so much of a basic disagreement that it might affect the future of our relationship. That's possible
But no one person in any relationship should get to say "My morals or my feelings are more important than yours and therefore you have to abide by what makes me comfortable." If you can't agree or if one persons feelings/morals make the other person uncomfortable, then it's likely that the relationship isn't going to be a strong one.
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Porn makes sex a selfish act, clearly not about the other person, but focusing only on self gratification.
I also disagree with that. Why is porn only about "one person"? Tons of couples use porn as a healthy part of their relationships to excite each other and to enhance their sex lives.
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Contrary to common belief, porn does not help a marriage. Divorce lawyers are now claiming that Internet porn is a leading cause OF divorce.
There's no source for that. It's simply not true, statistically.
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Porn IS addictive and tends to esculate.
No, sorry, it's not. That is simply a false scientific statement. ANYTHING can be addictive to someone who has an addictive personality. Food, as many of us on this forum know, can be addictive. That doesn't make food inherently bad. It just means that some people can't control their relationship to it. So if someone here is addicted to food and cannot have trigger foods in her house, does that mean all the rest of us have to avoid the same trigger foods because they're "immoral" for causing an addiction?
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What starts out as "mild porn" once a week, quickly turns into raunchier and more frequent porn. Everyone I have ever known about that is additive to porn has started out with soft porn. Pretty soon that is no longer enough and they slip into riskier and more forbidden acts onscreen to tantilize-often using underage girls or violence.
And there, you've just said that all of us who have posted are potential pedophiles and abusers. Taht's simply false. Every man I've ever dated and many of my friends watch porn every once in a while. Not a one of them has "escalated" to violence or pedophilia. Further there are no statistics anywhere that show that point of view to be accurate or substantiated.
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.Come on now, porn does not excite men by depicting average looking women having conventional or even slightly wild sex-it is always ranchy and taboo breaking.
Obvously you haven't watched much porn. Or you don't have raunchy sex with your husband! I would say the vast majority of the porn I watch and that my guy and I watch is stuff that is perfectly normal and that he and I have done. The rest of it usually involves multiple partners which ... some people might not be into that and I can understand completely ... but you can choose not to watch that kind of porn if you're not interested in it. Just like you can choose not to watch horror movies or foreign movies or whatever you don't really enjoy.
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Pornography, as an industry, feeds and breeds rapists and child molesters.
This is absolutely FLAT OUT FALSE. Panic mongering using hysterical and unsubstantiated ranting shouldn't be listened to.
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I would counter with the fact that those of you are are fat and feel unattractive may allow more leeway than you admit to being happy with because of YOUR insecurities. Woman who feel no one else would have them tend to allow more abuse from thier BF's or husbands than those who think they have options.
And HERE is the entire reason for this post: A chance to insult all of us. This paragraph negates ANY valid thing that she may have said anywhere in here. Would you take advice from someone who obviously looked down on you because you were fat????? I wouldn't. Obviously she has her own issues.
When I was first married it bothered me, but now that he is my EX husband/roommate, I wish he would find someone else for real and LEAVE. I do make sure to remind my boys (they play video games) that real women don't look like those characters.
I think it depends on what kind of porn it is and how often he's watching it. If it's something occasional and pretty 'standard' then I don't think I'd have a problem (provided he isn't filling the computer with it or paying for it). On the other hand... if the porn is something, um, illegal or really, really bizarre and/or he's watching it a lot and it's interfering with the relationship, I'd have a problem.
But I wouldn't have a problem bc the porn stars are thinner than me or anything... they're all 100% plastic and ... you know... they have s3x for money... believe me, there is no reason to feel jealous of that!
It's a running joke between us ... sometimes if he hasn't texted me right away, I"ll text him back and say I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten the boob review yet. 
