[techwife]

Well, first of all, thank you all for your awesome responses to my Home schooling questions/concerns. I still don't know what I'm doing about it yet, but you guys have helped to clear up the confusion about it. GOOD news is that the girl that was being snotty to my daughter..well, she was in my shop this weekend and saw my daughter, said hello, and asked her to come over to her house. So, my daughter, at first, said she didn't want to go, but my husband talked her into going and she went, had lots of fun, we brought the girl to the mall with us when I was done with work today and had dinner out with her and we all laughed and had lots of fun, so I hope THAT is behind us and Shelley will have a more 'accepting' time at the lunch table.

My next hurdle is gym class. Monday starts swimming classes and my daughter has put on some weight (about 15 - 20 lbs!) since the last swimming segment, is now in the gym class with the very popular crowd (last year, her class was comprised of mostly the geekier kids) that is very ultra skinny and catty (caddy?) and has grown out of her swimsuit. We were at the mall today for two hours trying on swimsuit after swimsuit and everything was either too small in the waist or too big in the bust. Her friend was with us, so I could tell she didn't want to cry in front of her, but she was near tears.

My big question is...WHY do they have co-ed gym class...especially swimming? I remember, I went to a much larger school than my daughter goes to, but we had four gym teachers...two male, two female. The women taught the girls and the men taught the guys. We NEVER had gym with the guys, EVER. Especially, making these kids, who are all in different levels of development, growing hair in places they didn't know they had it, growing things, bacne, some guys have hair, some don't, some guys are buffed, some aren't, some girls have boobs, some don't, some girls have nice figures, some don't. How humiliating it must be to be the chubby kid and have to be forced to put on a swimsuit in front of the beautiful people...especially the opposite sex! I would have died and I'm so glad I didn't have to go through it! I don't even think boys and girls have the same athletic needs...in my high school, the girls were doing gymnastics, field hockey and aerobics and the guys were playing football and wrestling. Sometimes we did the same things, like soccer and tennis, but never together. I was so anti athletic in school, it was embarassing enough in front of the girls...

Anyhow...I need the experts...is it common now to have co-ed gym class? Is there are a logical reason for it or do the athletic coaches just really like to humiliate us imperfect people? And, I know I sound like a totally mushy mom, but I really don't want my daughter to have to go through this...what would be a good note to give to the principal. I'm NOT going to lie about it...I really want to get my point across that this is humiliating to my daughter, as well as other chubby kids, and that she shouldn't have to go through it.

[Tonia]

I cannot answer the question about co-ed gym class - I think that is different per community, though, as our board just voted for single-sex PE.

I just wanted to let you know that your daughter is not alone. I know of a young lady - a straight-A student - who elected to fail PE rather than dress out for the swimming unit. She failed the quarter but passed the semester so she didn't have to repeat the class...but, that is how strongly she felt about not putting on a swimsuit in front of her class.

I would not give the principal a note - I would go to the school and tell them the truth. Your daughter is not comfortable with this unit and she is going to opt-out - and, of course, she is willing to take the consequences. I am sure she is not the first...

Good luck!

[Darkblue]

My kids are in co-ed classes now. I was always in co-ed gym classes as a child, but it didn't matter. I'd far rather have had the class divided in terms of jocks/non-jocks.

I think it's a matter of scheduling and funding. Many schools have eliminated gym/PE altogether, and those which still have it can't afford two teachers or split classes.

[Lyria]

I went through my whole schooling life in a co-ed environment and speaking from personal experience never had an issue with it. It was normal for me.

PE/PD/Health (Physical education, physical development and health studies) was a big part of our school time table as was organised sports class - the whole of a wednesday afternoon was devoted to sports and we chose from about 25-30 different activites all of which were co-ed. Sports carnivals, team sports and representative sports were also huge - but depending on sport were of course segregated as there were e.g. girls hockey comps and boys rugby etc.

I wasn't a particularly sporty person - being more a bookish nerd but I enjoyed the co-ed aspect of my environment. Taught me to relate to the "other species" lol.

[PhotoChick]

I never was an athletic person ... and I have to say that THIS that you said is a large reason for it:

in my high school, the girls were doing gymnastics, field hockey and aerobics and the guys were playing football and wrestling.

I wasn't allowed to be athletic because I was a *girl*. Girls don't DO that. Girls don't play football. Girls need to learn aerobics and gymnastics. Girls shouldn't sweat.

That's one of the reasons I was fat for 20+ years. Cause girls shouldn't be doing athletic things.

Life is co-ed. Sports should not be segregated by sex, nor should any other endeavor.

I know it's hard, but learning to deal with these things is part of life. There will always be someone skinnier, someone prettier, someone smarter, someone more popular. The best thing you can do for your daughter is help her realize this and learn to deal with it gracefully.

.

[chris313]

I have to agree with photochick with this one. Life is all about learning to find ways to deal with issues that will invariably happen at almost every stage. I wasn't the slimmest child in school, but I was a good athlete. We always had co-ed gym, and I think it was very beneficial to play side by side with the boys. You can help your daughter by letting her know that everyone feels self conscience at her age at some point, but she has to learn to feel comfortable within herself and realize she is more than a swimsuit or dress size. If you start writing letters to the principal to save her from situations like this, she may start to confuse her self worth with her self image. As the mother of two grown daughters, I know it's hard to see your child struggle, but in the end you're doing them a tremendous favor.

[techwife]

Originally Posted by PhotoChick

I never was an athletic person ... and I have to say that THIS that you said is a large reason for it:

I wasn't allowed to be athletic because I was a *girl*. Girls don't DO that. Girls don't play football. Girls need to learn aerobics and gymnastics. Girls shouldn't sweat.

.

Girls absolutely should sweat. And if girls want to play football, they absolutely should play football! When I was in college, I took racquetball and it was co-ed, but us girls played in our own court while the guys played in theirs. One day, the teacher had us all mix together and I'm here to tell you I did no playing of racquetball, but stood cowering with my racquet as a shield so as not to be killed by the MISSLE that was bombing through the court called a ball! Thing is that, in high school, we also did track and field, soccer, softball, volleyball, tennis, weight training, etc. I learned about aerobics in high school in gym class and LOVED it. I took aerobics classes at the health spa after high school for years and never had a weight problem in high school or in my 20's. I didn't gain weight until I went into my 40's and my metabolism went out the window and I moved to a very rural area where the nearest aerobics class is a half hour drive away...anyhow...

My problem isn't so much the athletics part of it, but making kids that are at a very self conscious time of their lives parade around in bathing suits. I think they should be given a choice, just like we are given a choice if we want to go to the beach in all our glory in a bathing suit or sit it out in our shorts. My husband told me that if I ever, EVER make him take off his shirt at a water park, he'll divorce me. And he was serious.

I think its very easy for us, as grown ups, to say, "Just put on your bathing suit and deal with it!", but are we instilling them to get over it, or are we increasing their insecurities about themselves and making it worse?

We have PTO Pool parties and many parents put on their bathing suits and jump in with the kids...but you couldn't pay me enough to put on my bathing suit in front of the whole village and walk around. I walk to my mom's beach in my shorts and T-shirt and don't take off my outer clothes until I'm sure I know I'm relatively alone before I get down to my bathing suit for a tan and a swim. I guess I'm just very self conscious myself and understand my daughter's complaints... Even when I was a size 4 I was self conscious in a bathing suit.

I understand that 'just doing it' and exposing your bathing-suit self to the class will help you to get over it and become more comfortable with it, but what that initial pain is just too much to bear?

...

Just had a great case-in-point pop into my head. If co-ed gym class was so easy for everyone to bear, why is CURVES such a successful place for women? Because women, like me, don't want to work out and get sweaty in front of men, or be hit on by men while working out, or sit on their sweat-covered machines after they're done with them. Bleh. I'd much rather work out amongst women.

[LisaMarie71]

I'm one of those people who found gym class an utter nightmare growing up. Ours was co-ed (I went to a tiny rural school, and there's no way there would be funding for separate P.E. teachers), but luckily there was no pool in sight! It was bad enough to be last picked and to be ridiculed when I couldn't do the sporty stuff. I took solace in the fact that I was about 500 times smarter than most of the other kids who were making fun of me, though, so that helped. I was smart enough to know that this stuff didn't really matter and that it would pass. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and all that.

That said, it truly does suck for your daughter (and any kid) to have to go through it, but I don't know if I'm convinced that you should help her avoid it. I can see both sides of this, so I'm not much help! As far as the Curves thing, I have never had a problem working out in front of men and I always thought Curves seemed a bit useless compared to most other gyms, so I can't relate there. When I was much heavier, I was a bit self-conscious at the gym, but I always knew that no one was really looking at me because they were too busy thinking about who was looking at THEM. And that's the same in high school, really.

[techwife]

Originally Posted by LisaMarie71

but I always knew that no one was really looking at me because they were too busy thinking about who was looking at THEM. And that's the same in high school, really.

Isn't THAT the truth. But I still don't like following a sweaty guy through a circuit training course.

Our school is a lot like yours in that its very small and only one gym teacher for the whole middle school. My daughter doesn't really mind the boys in the other segments, its the swimming that's sending her off to depression and anxiety.

[EZMONEY]

Hey TECH ~

This is a question that has been asked for ages ~ I really think the answer lies with each individual person and situation!

Through jr. high and high school...noticed I said junior and not middle ...(so my answer is obviously "ancient") I had all boys P.E. classes. I was very skinny most of my life....6' and 155lbs. when I graduated high school...so "my size" was always a situation that made me feel uncomfortable...thank goodness the other boys, back then, didn't look like they just walked off those MTV type shows that the kids see today, where they boys are all "hunked up"!

I was weak at wrestling ~ tumbling ~ pull ups and push ups ~ so those days sucked! However I was pretty darn good at baseball, basketball and football (as long as I didn't have to block anybody ) so those days were pretty cool!

Taking showers with other guys went from being uncomfortable in 7th grade to normal. We had to shower! You did not get out of the gym without one! My son and daughter played sports all through high school and college...they have NEVER showered with another person...well...humm...they are both married ...but I mean sports wise! The middle school they went to was our church school...no showers...the high school they went to was built for 2,000 and had 4,000 kids...the showers and locker area were filled with STUFF! They showered at home....thank goodness for their fellow classmates they had athlete P.E. so their sports practice were the last classes of the day.

P.E. for that high school now...and was then, if you weren't an athlete, is required for only 9th grade...pretty much playing grab a$$, if you dress out, and sophomore class consists of walking around the school in your street clothes! There a lot of heavy kids at school!

My son had co-ed P.E. in middle school ~ although he was athlete of the year in 7th and 8th grade, he would get his butt whipped and whipped good in soccer and gymnastics by the girls....he went on to be a 4 year ~ 3 sport Varsity high school athlete and set a record (since broken) at his college in the high jump! He coaches track at the high school he teaches at today...he is healthy and active.

My daughter attended the same schools and had co~ed P.E. also in middle school ~ she was the WORST! athlete...she could not do anything athletic...she was nothing like her brother in sports! Without going into the long deatils She got into tennis in 6th grade...she could not throw the ball up and hit it...but she stuck it out...I took her to the courts a lot of days! She took group tennis lessons for kids her age....she went from being the worst athlete in 4th grade to being the female-academic athlete of the year in high school and playing college tennis with a schlorship! She is still active today in tennis and running 5K's with me!!

TECH you know I can go ON and ON and ON and never get to the point...but I will try and wrap it up....schools have a lot of opportunities out there...clubs of all sorts...and if they don't have one that you like...START ONE!! My kids took advantage of the opportunities at their high school with sports and class offices...yearbook...etc. They were NOT any different than most kids....they came from a dysfuntional family!...I was their FATHER!!!

They were encouraged to try new things...my son was always one of the weakest on the team...sat on the bench a lot of times...but used that to get better/stronger and as I mentioned...take HIS talent to the best HE could be. My daughter could hardly walk without falling down....still does ...kidding...but still not the most athletic and graceful women out there...but she excelled at tennis for HER ability and worked to be the best SHE could be for her talent....and if you ever saw her high jump in track you would think that I should never~EVER let her out of the house without FULL PADDING!!

They worked through tough times...

When I was in 7th grade we had a PE class to teach us to dance ~ I was uncomfortable doing it ~ I asked my mom to write me a note to say it was against our religion ~ we didn't even go to church ~ although I have jump around a lot over the years at weddings etc (might be alcohol related ) I never learned to dance...Angie sure would love it if I did...her feet get awful sore ...I missed out on a lot of fun...Oh, I went to most of the dances...I just stood there with my girlfriend/s...saying dumb stuff like..."I would but my knee hurts..." ...sad..so sad...

[Darkblue]

One thing...she is very fortunate to be somewhere that CAN offer a swim class. I don't know of any schools around here which can afford to operate a pool...hire a swim coach...pay the insurance for the classes...afford the tremendous water bills. My kids will never be able to do this. I will have to drive them many miles and pay $$$ for swimming lessons. If they ever want to swim for fun, it will be the same drive and a pricey season pass.

That probably won't help her insecurities, but remind her she could be somewhere where there is only hot dusty prairie and 100 degree temps, with the only option to be PE in the outdoors.

What are you both doing to help her with the weight loss, getting back into shape, etc? It sounds like, from your last two threads, that this is the area she needs to be focusing on--improving her image and body via exercise/diet. *sighs* As we all know...it's easier to do it sooner than wait until it becomes a larger problem.

[chickybird]

Does she have to wear a bathing suit? When I was in high school, we were allowed to wear non-denim shorts and t-shirts. True, that will be like wearing a big sign that yells , "I'm overweight!", but it's just a thought. What size is your girl? Were you able to try Academy, or sun and ski sports? They've got a decent collection of plus-sized suits.

[SoulBliss]

I had co-ed gym until funding was cut back and then we had NO gym. That's right! No exercise at all. We couldn't afford any water activities either.

Personally, I would have rather been with ALL boys than ANY girls. Teen girls can be the most critical, harshest, meanest creatures on the planet. I still remember the awful things said to me and done to me, mostly be GIRLS in Junior and High School.

[PhotoChick]

If co-ed gym class was so easy for everyone to bear, why is CURVES such a successful place for women? Because women, like me, don't want to work out and get sweaty in front of men, or be hit on by men while working out, or sit on their sweat-covered machines after they're done with them. Bleh. I'd much rather work out amongst women.

Please don't take this as harsh because it's not meant to be - but the reason that Curves is so popular is because women who have your attitude instill that attitude in their daughters - whether consciously or unconsciously. That mindset that "ew - how embarassing to work out in front of men".

It's also the attitude that promotes the whole "women should work out with light weights and not bulk up" mindset. Women can and should be working out and interacting in sports at the SAME LEVEL as men. We shouldn't be walking around saying "eeeewwww ... man sweat!"

I work out in front of men every day. I walk over into the weight area and do my routine. And you know what? Every single guy there who I have interacted with has never ever been rude or nasty or mean or snarky. Sure I get some looks ... but they're not the kind of looks you'd think. They're "wow - that chick is lifting weights" looks. The men who have talked to me have expressed their admiration that I would venture out of the "girly" area of machines and into free weights. Some have even helped me with my form or given me advice. And in nearly 2 years of doing this, not one of them has EVER hit on me or made a remark about my body.

I know that you're hurting for your daughter and you want to FIX everything for her. But you know what .. by "fixing" things, you're really just making it worse in the long run.

If you get the principal to excuse her from gym, do you think the other kids are going to leave her alone then? Or do you think she'll be even more opened up for the kind of "oooohhhh did your mommy run to the principal" type teasing?

Your daughter will be put in all kinds of situations in her life where she will be uncomfortable. The best thing you can do is support her, let her know that her feelings are valid but that she's a good, strong person, and that you know she's capable of getting through this. That's NOT "put on your bathing suit and get over it". Share with her your discomforts about your body. Share with her the story about your husband. Help her to see that we ALL have issues that we have to deal with and that it's ok to be uncomfortable ... but that doing what needs to be done (in her case powering through the swim part of the year) will not be as bad as she thinks it will be. And that no matter what, she's strong enough to get through it.

.

[EZMONEY]

TECH ~

I see you have been getting some "outstanding" advice! And are probably just as confused on what to do as you were from when you posted this!

I think that most of us can agree that we...as human beings don't like to be put in any kind of uncomfortable situation. We....as parents! cannot bear the fact that our children hurt at times....I think we all would bear their pain if possible!

I think we all agree that we have all had to work through "tough times"...I think those of us with kids have seen them "hurt" in various situations and get through them.

I am sure there are folks out there that cannot bear to post here, on this thread ~ too many painful memories from their past....

we don't live in a perfect world...every school....every kid...every parent... has had to deal with issues that make us uncomfortable...sometimes we WIN!! and LIFE IS GOOD!...sometimes WE LOSE ...and life sucks!

I have read your posts over the years...I know you have been hit too hard...too many times by the puck....

But I DO KNOW that YOU are a good mom...that gives a damn about her kids....I trust you to do what you think is the right thing...

there are not a lot of kids out there these days that have that in their lives!

Your daughter is having a tough time ...it will work out ...she comes from good stock!