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Do you REALLY want to be healthy?

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Old 09-24-2011, 12:10 PM   #1
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Default Do you REALLY want to be healthy?

I am furious!! I have been reading a book called the diet myth. It says that people who have a BMI index between 25–29.9 (the “overweight category) are the healthiest, and have the least incidence of disease. The author says that people who are in the obese category are next. the people who are in the optimum weight category die the youngest!

They also did a study and found that a high percentage of women in the “optimum” weight category have anorexic markers, such as the drive to be perfect. Also a high percentage of them are smokers. Who do you think funded the BMI movement??? The billion dollar a year Pharmaceuticals and the Weight loss industries.

I decided to do a little checking of statistical studies and surveys on my own, and found this to be correct! I mean the one that is the most obvious 2011 Census women live 5 years longer than men. Yet women are significantly more obese than men! There are MANY studies done that prove being "fat" can protect you from cardiac events! You don't ever hear about those studies however, because they are funded by Pharmaceuticals and the Weight loss industries!

AAARRRGG! I feel like I have wasted so many years trying to fit into the "Ideal weight" When I am the ideal HEALTHY weight!!! Not Hollywood ideal! AND.. Of course the government and powers that be (Pharisees) are in their Pharmaceuticals and the Weight loss industry pockets so they jump on the bandwagon, with no thought for the safety of billions of people they are supposed to protect!

The diet industry and pharmaceuticals blame the failure of their products on the weak characters of their customers. They have taken a sin (vanity) and dressed it up and made it look like a virtue!
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:28 PM   #2
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how do u feel after your weightloss healthy or unhealthy? i have experienced i feel good while seeing in the mirror.. and able to move quickly from one place to other. I feel that is part of being healthy.
100 different scientists and doctors have 100 different openions and theories. afterall what you feel is the most important thing.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:35 PM   #3
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I am not talking about physical fitness, that has nothing to do with weight. I am talking about weight. If you are an active obese person, you are healthier than a person who is in the "optimum" weight category. Look it up for yourself. that is fine if you want to be skinny, just call it what it is and don't expect God to bless it. For years I couldn't understand why God would not let me get to my "ideal weight" when I was trying so hard to do what He told me to do. Now I know He wants me to be healthy.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:08 PM   #4
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Yep, I've read the research, and have known for at least 20 years that a "little" overweight has been found to be the healthiest group in many research studies.

They're all correlational studies though, and the don't seperate out the people who are "a little underweight" or significantly underweight because of health problems.

As for women living longer than men, weight isn't necessarily a factor. I remember in college learning that significantly more boys are conceived than girls, and yet the difference is almost nil at birth. At all ages (even in the womb), males have higher mortality rates than females.

Also these are not only correlational studies, they also only reflect trends. Just because the trend suggests that a bit of extra fat may protect people in some way, doesn't mean it's protecting all of us.

If you're just a little bit overweight and have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, or other health issues, losing that little bit of fat may help you. Or the fat may have nothing to do with it, and getting healthier and fitter may help you and the weight loss may be a side effect of getting fitter. If you have arthritis, even being a little overweight can have a significant impact on pain, and if you have arthritis pain, the benefits of possibly living longer versus the benefits of definitely having less pain - many will gladly choose the pain relief over longevity.

None of us can really live the averages, we can only live in our own bodies.

My goal weight keeps changing, and I don't have a goal in mind based on any chart that tells me what I'm supposed to acheive. Instead, I'm going by my checkup results and how I feel. I'm not focusing on weight loss very much, because I do stupid things when I make my journey about weight loss.

I have made it 100% about health, and I don't think it's a coincidence that this is the first time I've ever had long-term success. But in order to make it about health, I need to listen to my body, because the research can't tell me about my body, it can only describe trends and it takes piles and piles of research to draw personal conclusions, and even then the research can be confusing in terms of what I can and can't apply to my life.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:44 PM   #5
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Just because the trend suggests that a bit of extra fat may protect people in some way, doesn't mean it's protecting all of us.
I think you may be grossly understating what the research says. However, I would be very interested to learn where you get your information as I plan on becoming an expert on this.

I am tired of women feeling like they are less than a person because some billion dollar industry is trying to get into their pockets!!!

God wants us healthy, and could care less if we are fashionable.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:17 PM   #6
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Yes, I'm understating the research (both for and against the position that "a little extra weight is healthiest") because the amount of research on the topic is quite vast. There's no way to summarize such a large pool of data in a paragraph, when the amount of information exceeds what can be evaluated in one book, one college class, one undergraduate or even graduate degree or even one life time of study.

A person could study the subject for a lifetime and reach different conclusions than another person doing the same (in fact, there are many such someone's).

There's no easy way to summarize the research. I've been reading the research (on both sides of the argument) for at least 20 years, but as an amateur. Even though I have some background in research methodology (as a requirement for my undergraduate and graduate degree in psychology), it can be difficult to sort out the results of the research, and some people have used the same studies to reach very different conclusions.

It's not that any of the research is "wrong" it's just that the subject matter is quite complicated. Different researchers use different criteria for defining and determining health. They also use different populations.

For example there's some very interesting research that suggests that there are probably ethnic differences in the impact of "extra weight" (which may be a result of genetic or cultural differences). Then of course there's the fact that the researchers aren't always using the same definitions of ideal weight, healthy weight, extra weight and even health itself.

Off the top of my head, I can't direct you to specific research, but I'll do a little digging because I probably can at least jog my memory for titles to some of the books I've read on the subject.

I do want to clarify that I agree that the healthiest weights probably are overweight by our current standards, but I also believe that weight isn't the main health indicator at all.

We spend a lot of time in our culture worrying about our weight and not enough about the healthfulness of our diet, sleep patterns, alcohol use, stress levels and activity level (or lack of it)...

I don't think losing weight solves most people's health issues. I don't even think my weight loss has been the primary cause of my health improvements. I suspect (because of the books I've read that I'll try to remember) that the health improvements have been a result of my changes in sleep patterns, stress levels, and increased activity level.

Now some of those changes were weight mediated. Taking weight off my joints, resulted in less pressure in the joints, and therefore less pain.

Personally (because of the research I've read and my personal experiences), I think we should take the focus off of "weight" entirely. We should be focusing on eating healthier foods, getting adequate sleep, reducing stress, and moving more and being more active.

And that's the biggest problem with most of the research dealing with the healthfulness or unhealthfulness of weight - so often the research isn't comparing or even factoring in habit differences, which seems quite bizarre to me, because it seems obvious to me that habits would have more impact than weight itself.

I'm getting a bit off topic. I'll try to think of some of the research or authors that will help you find what you're looking for.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Kelli View Post

I think you may be grossly understating what the research says. However, I would be very interested to learn where you get your information as I plan on becoming an expert on this.



God wants us healthy, and could care less if we are fashionable.
I am interested in your statement that you plan on becoming an expert on this. How many years do you have to devote to this ? It takes years of research and study to become an expert on any subject. Becoming an expert is not a self appointed title. Others will detrmine if you are an expert.
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Old 09-24-2011, 04:05 PM   #8
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Another point about being an expert, or even an amatueur, is aquiring the ability to do the digging and evaluate the research on your own.

To be able to evaluate the research, you need to have a good understanding of research methodology to be able to evaluate the research and recognize research method strengths, weaknesses, and potential errors.

Obtaining those skills without college and graduate coursework, isn't impossible, but it is extremely time consuming. It's not a self-study course for most folks.

I'm not saying that I'm not willing to do the bit of digging I offered to do, but to gain even an amateur understanding of the research, you're going to have to develop your own digging skills, and learn to tell (or at least suspect) when an author of a book or research paper is overstretching their conclusions. As bargoo pointed out, those skills take years of study to develop (and that's before delving into the specific topic that is your interest).

Pointing you to specific research doesn't really do you a lot of good, if you don't have the research methodology background, because it's extremely easy to jump to false conclusions if you don't.

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, even though I've read thousands of research journal articles and hundreds of books that cite the research. I've taken 5 to 6 undergraduate and graduate classes that dealt specifically with research methodology and/or statistics, and another 5 or 6 classes that involved evaluating research literature as part of the coursework.

It's a skill I can't pass on in a forum like this. In fact, it's a skill I can't pass on at all, because my understanding of the topic isn't deep or broad enough to teach it.

The most I can really do is give you some book titles, but books aren't the best source of information, because the author has chosen the research to support his or her hypothesis. Another author will do the sasme to support a different hypothesis. You can read books on both sides of the argument, and that will help only if you have a basic understanding of research methodology.

If you don't, you will conclude (as you'll hear many people say) that researchers can manipulate the data to say whatever they want it to say, so statistics and research is entirely useless.

That's not true, but you have to understand the limits, strengths and weaknesses of research to be able to evaluate the research. Or you have to trust the authors to provide it for you, but that's tricky too, because you have to rely on the author's reputation, which you have to research to determine (best-selling does not mean reputable or respected in the field).


The strength of books written by true experts (assuming you've determined that the person is a true expert, and not just a popular one) is that the author compiles and interprets the research for you, but you have to trust their hypothesis - or have the skills to evaluate the author's strengths and weaknesses.

The weakness is that the authors that write books that summarize research, also tend to leave out the research that doesn't support their conclusions. Finding both sides of the argument in the same book is rare (and those are the books I'm trying to remember to pass on to you).


Going directly to the research the book author cites can help you determine whether the author is over-reaching (but only if you understand research methodology).

You also have to know the reputation of the publications in which the research articles appear.

For accuracy, peer-reviewd medical journals are the best source of information, but unless you have the research methodology background, they can be quite difficult to read and interpret (let alone evaluate).

I know I've probably made the topic even more confusing, because that's the problem with so much information. It doesn't even start to make sense until you've been studying the topic for years.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:26 PM   #9
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This is getting so off the point! I don't care about how to do research! If you are a Born Again Christian please pray about this. Ask God if what I am saying is the truth.

I am not saying it is okay to be morbidly obese, that's not good for you, I have interviewed numerous naturally thin women (by naturally thin I mean they don't have any of the markers for anorexia) and not one of the ones I have interviewed are dieters! They may have tried one or two, but don't make it a lifestyle.

I know it's the struggle to stay thin that make us fat! If you tell someone they can't have a drink of water they immediately want a big glass of water. If you tell someone they can't have chocolate that's what they want. then when you tell them they can't ever have it again, they fail and eat a bunch, because they think they won't get it again.

I think we naturally gain a few pounds as we age, but it's the chronic dieting that creates the desire, and we become not just a little heavier but obese. I am so mad that I have wasted so many years trying to be something that I was in my 20s! I like being a healthy size 14!
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II Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

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Old 09-24-2011, 06:46 PM   #10
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Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

It's time for Christian women to quit counting calories and quit making endless list and get busy doing what God purposed you to do. I have been so occupied for so many years with what I LOOK LIKE!!! I am so ashamed.
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Remember, If God wouldn't have put the Giant in David's life, he would have been just another shepherd boy!

II Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

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Old 09-24-2011, 07:35 PM   #11
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I agree totally with Kaplods, and not just because she is my favorite member. I am much heavier than my twin sister, but I have good blood pressure, cholesterol, heart, etc. My twin is on meds for both BP and cholesterol, while I take only vitamins.

I believe every person is different internally, even twins.

I certainly do not feel like less of a woman because I am overweight, and I am sure my twin doesn't either.

You need to rethink your ideas.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:36 PM   #12
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PS - I don't know anyone who does not want to be healthy ! ! !
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:26 PM   #13
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Wait, Monica, you thought I was saying that you were less of a woman because you are overweight??? You misunderstood me and I am so sorry, I actually think the opposite of that. I think the more overweight you are the more will power you have. I think we are all straining to fit into a norm that is not healthy.

I get so passionate about stuff I probably need to slow down and try to write more clearly.

If you read my first post you will see that it says we have all been fooled into thinking that normal is a BMI (Body Mass Index) of 18.5-24.9 that would mean that me being 5'7"' needs to be between 118-159 pounds. Our own government says they recommend that you are between these numbers for Optimum BMI. A BMI of 25-29.9 160-191 pounds. (my 18 year old daughter who wears a size 10 pants weighs 160 pounds. She is definitely NOT overweight!) The obese category is 191.5 and over!

There are MANY studies that have proven that women who weigh in the first category "Normal" are less healthy and die younger, than those in the "overweight" category. The diet industries and pharmaceuticals are the ones who determined these norms, and because our politicians are in their pocket.

I feel really horrible that you thought I was saying that those who are overweight are not absolutely BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL, then I didn't not write what I wanted to write.

the beauty of me is my soul, the eternal part of me. The reason outer beauty is so important to the world is because Satan makes the least of us the most important part.
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II Corinthians 10:3-6 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:02 AM   #14
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I do not plan on quitting counting calories or making lists, it is just these tasks that keep me at a healthy weight.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:51 AM   #15
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Yes, I want to be healthy. I want to eat healthier. Yes, I am sick of the whoever makes weight guide lines. Years ago, "they" said 5'6" should weigh 130lbs. and that is the weight that has upset me for years.

I cannot get to 130 lbs without becoming more obsessed into exercising and this is not my life style. I think the next weight for 5'6" was 145 lbs...well, I can get there, but it still comes with lots of exercising. And, I am not willing to do that weight either.

I want a realistic weight goal for me! So, I chose 160 this time. I will still be in the "Overweight" range, but I will be able to maintain this weight, be happier, be healthier than before, and eat some of the food that I use to eat weekly.

I understand what you are saying. I cannot have the perfect ideal weight body, because I am not willing to make myself miserable doing it.
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