3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community  

Go Back   3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community > Support Forum > Support Groups > Faith Based Support Groups

Why is this ok?! (Christianity vs free speech rant)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-01-2010, 09:21 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Pint Sized Terror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, US
Posts: 842

S/C/G: CW: 155 GW: 130

Height: 5'2"

Default Why is this ok?! (Christianity vs free speech rant)

And I forgot about the faith-based forum. Maybe this should be moved there...

It's not actually Christianity vs Free Speech, more like Church vs State vs a lot of other things that don't make sense.

I am a Christian. I celebrate Christmas. I understand that Christmas and a plethora of other holidays I celebrate had older non-Christian roots. I'm ok with that. I still celebrate the holidays as a Christian because, well, that's what I do. That's when I celebrate.

Anyway, every year I get more and more tired of people complaining over the use of the word Christmas. Or Nativity displays. Or any other Christian-based displays of faith. ESPECIALLY because there are publicly-funded institutions *coughSmithsoniancough* that are willingly displaying images of Jesus Christ. The only difference? The things they are willingly displaying are directly offensive to Christians. Jesus being eaten by ants.

If a community can't call their annual Christmas-based vendor's market Christmas Village, and CITY HALL decides they have to name it Holiday Village, what right does anyone else have to display disparaging images of Christianity?

Ohhhh yeah. The whole "free speech" thing. Except I hate the fact that free speech only applies when you're tearing Christianity down, and you're told to stuff it if you are celebrating Christianity. I understand that no one wants a religion, ANY religion, shoved down their throats. It even irritates me when random people come up and shove flyers for their Christian-based church in my hand, or preach to me in the mall AND I'M CHRISTIAN. I get it. It's irritating. But so is getting told that my church isn't allowed to display a Nativity scene on their property. Or that I can't say Merry Christmas. My neighbors are Israeli Jews, and they wish me Happy Hanukkah. I say, "Thanks. You too." Why? Because they're wishing me well during their celebrations. I don't get all offended.

UGH!!!
__________________
One Jivin' Bunny for every 5lbs lost:

Starting weight: 160lbs
First Goal: 150lbs

Second Goal: 140lbs
Third and Maybe FINAL GOAL: 130lbs

Last edited by Pint Sized Terror : 12-01-2010 at 09:28 AM.
Pint Sized Terror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 09:30 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
bargoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Davis, Ca
Posts: 23,149

S/C/G: 204/114/120

Height: 5'

Default

You are so right !!
__________________
Goal 12/21/2007
bargoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 09:36 AM   #3
Burn It!
 
Aclai4067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 2,516

S/C/G: 310.6/310.6/155

Height: 5'8

Default

Interesting perspective. I never hear anyone complain about the display of Christmas-related decor. I hear a LOT of complaints about companies saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas." There are actually people who boycot companies that don't say Merry Christmas.
__________________
Ashley
Mini Goal 1- 5%


Overall:
Aclai4067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 09:39 AM   #4
A Buxom Babe
 
BuxomPrincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 75

S/C/G: 230/213/155

Height: 5'6"

Default

Pint.....your location says NC, but your post screams of what Philly is dealing with right now. It's making me upset. There seriously needs to be a separation of church and state. The government needs to stay out of our bedrooms and our holidays. I am afraid to say Merry Christmas anymore because I've been brainwashed that it might offend somebody! Really....why do we have to be afraid that something like that offends others.

They interviewed a woman today at the Christmas Village in Philly today, she is actually Jewish. She said, "I have no problem saying Merry Christmas, or having the sign say Christmas Village."

I'm not a very religious person, but I do believe in God. If you want us to have tolerance for everything and everybody else.....please don't take away what I was raised to believe in.
BuxomPrincess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 09:40 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
bargoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Davis, Ca
Posts: 23,149

S/C/G: 204/114/120

Height: 5'

Default

Oh, I hear a lot of complaints about Nativity Scenes and the like. And some stores don't allow their employees to say Merry Christmas, they must say Happy Holidays !
__________________
Goal 12/21/2007

Last edited by bargoo : 12-01-2010 at 09:41 AM.
bargoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 10:03 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Pint Sized Terror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, US
Posts: 842

S/C/G: CW: 155 GW: 130

Height: 5'2"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bargoo View Post
Oh, I hear a lot of complaints about Nativity Scenes and the like. And some stores don't allow their employees to say Merry Christmas, they must say Happy Holidays !
Same here. There was a big uproar here last year because an employee was written up for saying Merry Christmas.

I was shocked senseless yesterday when the gate guard on base said, "Have a blessed day." I almost teared up. You just don't hear stuff like that anymore.

And yep, part of my issue is from what's going on in Philly. We went through something similar in my home town. They used to do this really elaborate Nativity scene with real actors and animals, and one year someone destroyed the set Christmas Eve. They had it anyway, but then a bunch of anonymous letters started showing up in the newspaper about how it was offensive to people who didn't believe in God so that was the last year they did it. Then, they stopped calling the parade the "Christmas" Parade, and started calling it the "Holiday" Parade. The schools stopped doing a Christmas Party, and instead started Holiday Parties. I understand about the schools. Not all the kids in my class celebrated Christmas, and it made me uncomfortable that they couldn't take part. They couldn't take part in the Holiday Party either, though. We used to pray before ball games, but we don't do that anymore either. In fact, 2 kids were suspended because they prayed before a game anyway, off by themselves. Yet the coach was one to say God****t.

Last Easter a church did a re-enactment of the last days of Christ. They had someone dragging a full-sized cross down a very busy highway with members of the congregation following, yelling at the actor playing Jesus. It was very bloody, and it scared my kids quite a bit when they saw it from the window of a restaurant. No amount of "It's ok" and explaining worked. They had nightmares for weeks. So I do believe in some discretion on the part of the PEOPLE. Not the government though.
__________________
One Jivin' Bunny for every 5lbs lost:

Starting weight: 160lbs
First Goal: 150lbs

Second Goal: 140lbs
Third and Maybe FINAL GOAL: 130lbs
Pint Sized Terror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 10:20 AM   #7
If you wanna Rock It . .
 
Coondocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 1,246

S/C/G: 248/164*low*/145

Height: 5'4"

Default

Can some one explain to me why this is offensive?
Im honestly curious why some one would be offended at hearing Merry Christmas or seeing the word some where. I've never met anyone who has taken offensive so I've never actually asked I guess.
We've gone over to 'Happy Holidays' for the most part here, not so much because anyone has been offended or upset by it, more so to include everyone in a broad way.
__________________
Live real, live hope.
Coondocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 10:32 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 152

Default

i agree with your post , some people are just so easily offended or maybe they just want to whine about something
nitenurse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 10:37 AM   #9
On a mission
 
vdander24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 516

S/C/G: HW280/CW270/GW160

Height: 5'9"

Default

AMEN!!... Oops! I mean great point! I think it is idiotic for there to be such a problem with Christian terms. Why can't people just be open to the idea that somebody else's view may not be their own...

ALTHOUGH..... I guess after hundreds of years of people having christianity shoved down their throats, people feel like they need to stand up.

Too many "christians" use their freedom of religion beliefs, to judge others, including other "christians"
__________________
This is about more than a number... It is about my LIFE!

vdander24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 10:38 AM   #10
Happy Plodder
 
Rosinante's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,081

S/C/G: 242/214.8/146

Height: 5'2"

Default

I used to always wonder why it was OK to say Happy Hannukkah but not Merry Christmas. I mean either religion may be mentioned or may not - why pick on just one to demonize?

It's not quite to that point here in the UK but in many cities, like the last one I lived in, local charity shops were forbidden to put nativity displays in their windows, in case local Muslims (a huge percentage of the population) were offended.
This is the same city where, when I was involved in re-ordering (internal reconstruction) of the church building, I was told that the only way the local council could be seen to support our move to make the building more accessible to all sectors of the community would be if we agreed that the church could be used as a medressa (teaching of Islam to Muslim children).

If a Christian Had complained about the Eid and Diwali city lights; or if Christians had demanded a Sunday School within a practising mosque, we'd have been told we were racist.....

The Really annoying thing is that I have never met a single Muslim who Was offended by Christians being Christian, or who Wanted to teach their children in a religious building consecrated to another faith.

I condemn racial and relgious intolerance utterly and equally - but the sort of directives that get thrust upon us are by Politically-Correct-Gone-Mad officials, who have no idea that they are actually worsening a situation by trampling all over one group's feelings at the expense of another's.

Rant ends. I'll go back to writing the Christmas sermon ..... ;D
__________________

Dukan & divin'.....
Rosinante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 03:02 PM   #11
Just keep breathing!
 
GradPhase's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,071

S/C/G: 175/160/150

Height: 5'5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coondocks View Post
Can some one explain to me why this is offensive?
Im honestly curious why some one would be offended at hearing Merry Christmas or seeing the word some where.
"Merry Christmas" doesn't offend me.

"Christmas Market" slightly offends me.

"I think it is idiotic for there to be such a problem with Christian terms. - Vdander24" and "some people are just so easily offended or maybe they just want to whine about something - nitenurse" highly offends me.

Maybe it's not the message itself that's so offensive (though it's without a doubt highly exclusive of the public if you turn a HOLIDAY market that's supposed to be open to ANY faiths into a strictly Christian one), but the deliberately offensive mentalities behind "defending" Christmas festivities that makes people so angsty.


I think nativity scenes outside of churches are absolutely beautiful. I think live reenactments are brilliant from the "Christian perspective" as well as just a fantastic nod toward history, and community involvement.

I do not think having a religion shoved down my throat when I'm trying to make a business transaction is okay - no matter what religion. If the CEO of YOUR company only gave you Ramadan off, NOT Christmas, or instead of saying "Merry Christmas" strangers constantly told your children "Happy Muharram" every time you entered into a building (which could be upwards of 15 times a day, and if your children understood what it was they were implying) - wouldn't YOU start to feel a little excluded, or overwhelmed??


Why is it that so many Christians are offended by an INCLUSIVE Holiday Market? Or an INCLUSIVE Holiday Work Party?
__________________
"..I think you need to stop following misery's lead.
Shine away. Shine away. Shine away.
Isn't it time you got over how fragile you are?
We're all waiting on your supernova, 'cause that's who you are.
And you've only begun to shine.."

Last edited by GradPhase : 12-01-2010 at 03:05 PM.
GradPhase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 04:40 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Bootsie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,055

Default

Quote:
Why is it that so many Christians are offended by an INCLUSIVE Holiday Market? Or an INCLUSIVE Holiday Work Party?



[b]Oh well I guess I just as well put my 2 cents in this, I don't think that Christians are offended in Holidays it is the fact some are told not to say Merry Christmas, or have anything to do with God at times, or put things of God up in Church yards ect... That is not freedom, who ever is making a big deal of our worshiping of Jesus Christ and celebrating his life and trying to stop us , plainly needs to mind their own business. If we can let them have their freedom to say what ever they want and do what ever they want, we to should be able to say what we want, after all this is America, land of freedom, am I wrong?

No one has ever told me I better not say Merry Christmas, are not to mention my Lords name but if they did they better get ready to hear what is in my heart. I speak what is on my mind and I love him dearly and I will stand up for him. I wish Jesus a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
__________________

SMILE JESUS LOVES YOU
"
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food." Romans 14:20a (NIV


Goal one......200
Goal 2..........195

Last edited by Bootsie : 12-01-2010 at 04:43 PM.
Bootsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 05:15 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
flashfacts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tx
Posts: 221

S/C/G: 250/135.8/13?

Height: 5'6"

Default

Honestly, I don't think there would be near as much problem for some people if Christmas didn't take over most aspects of our cultural and social experience for a month, and sometimes longer depending on where you live. Like Eskinomad said, its 15+ times a day, but not just for a few days, or even a week, it a month of solid CHRISTMAS! CHRISTMAS! WHY DON'T YOU CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS!

But as for businesses having their employees say Happy Holidays, as long as they aren't forcing you to say it outside of work, then its not really about you, the person, its about you the public face of the company. At work, if you deal with costumers, you are a representative of your company, and your company may choose to present itself secularly. Which means that its public face (you the employee) are asked to support and reinforce that. Other companies choose to integrate religion a lot into their public face, which is their right. But on the flip slide, some companies decide not to, and as an employee, I don't think its that bad to follow that on company time, in front of costumers. And to be frank, some companies might feel its a way to avoid problems with more aggressive employees who might try to evangelize. I know that is not the majority of Christians by any means, but even one can lead to bad word of mouth.

Christmas can be exhausting because of how long and intense it can be, so I think people in general are more touchy. You don't get this near as much around Easter, because the holiday comes and and it goes, so people who celebrate can celebrate, and everyone else can just go on with their lives. That's just not true for Christmas
flashfacts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 05:45 PM   #14
On a mission
 
vdander24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 516

S/C/G: HW280/CW270/GW160

Height: 5'9"

Default

"I think it is idiotic for there to be such a problem with Christian terms. - Vdander24" and "some people are just so easily offended or maybe they just want to whine about something - nitenurse" highly offends me.

Maybe it's not the message itself that's so offensive (though it's without a doubt highly exclusive of the public if you turn a HOLIDAY market that's supposed to be open to ANY faiths into a strictly Christian one), but the deliberately offensive mentalities behind "defending" Christmas festivities that makes people so angsty.


Eskinomad -I really did not mean offense, and truly, I agree with your point. Thank you.
I should have been clearer. " I think it is idiotic for there to be such a problem with (fill in the blank, here) terms "

I have a set of values and beliefs that I follow. That being said, I am absolutely fine with, and interested in, others beliefs. So if there were a "Hannuka, Kwanzaa, or Winter (Pagan)"Decorations, public celebrations, or demonstrations, I would not have a problem with that either.
I also would NOT be offended if someone wished me a Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Hannukah, or Seasons Greetings.

(This is my soap box now... so feel free to disregard)

To be direct, The "Christmas" we are discussing is a commercial one, not the faith-based one. (In My Opinion only, please don't attack) The Christian Christmas is what generates most Christmas money. Unfortunately Hannukah, Kwanzaa and other ventures don't make the money, so they don't get as much attention. (Again, IMO, only)
The "Christmas" Christians are defending is the faith-based one, because maybe they are trying to stop the commercial one that has taken over, and othe people of faith dont realize that the "Christmas" they see in the mall has little to do with a different faith.

I know my view seems cynical, and it is, but what I have learned is to appreciate this time of the year in as many ways as possible.
__________________
This is about more than a number... It is about my LIFE!

vdander24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2010, 05:48 PM   #15
Just keep breathing!
 
GradPhase's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,071

S/C/G: 175/160/150

Height: 5'5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootsie View Post
[/color]


[b]Oh well I guess I just as well put my 2 cents in this, I don't think that Christians are offended in Holidays it is the fact some are told not to say Merry Christmas, or have anything to do with God at times, or put things of God up in Church yards ect... That is not freedom, who ever is making a big deal of our worshiping of Jesus Christ and celebrating his life and trying to stop us , plainly needs to mind their own business. If we can let them have their freedom to say what ever they want and do what ever they want, we to should be able to say what we want, after all this is America, land of freedom, am I wrong?

No one has ever told me I better not say Merry Christmas, are not to mention my Lords name but if they did they better get ready to hear what is in my heart. I speak what is on my mind and I love him dearly and I will stand up for him. I wish Jesus a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

This isn't about not celebrating your God. This is about not forcing your God on other people - regardless of who your God is.

Yes, you should have the freedom to put whatever in your lawn that you see fit, just like Atheists have the freedom to put whatever they want on a billboard, disclaiming any Gods exist. But just because we have the freedom to do it, doesn't mean it's in everyone's best interest. Most people in America would argue that it is not in everyone's best interest to put a huge billboard up that says "Jesus Christ is a Big Fat Lie". But they have the right. And Christian's should have equal right to put up a nativity scene, I absolutely agree.

I guess what I don't understand is why it's offensive that people are arguing that it's better to say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings". For the sake of everyone getting along well - during a time that is stressful for a lot of people, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jewish alike - why does it have to be a battle? Christmas in your homes, and churches, and private schools, and Holiday for the general public, and public schools.

The "Christmas" season sees more suicide attempts and successes than any other time (followed closely by Valentines day). While it's a warm, fuzzy holiday for a lot of people - it certainly isn't for everyone (foster care kids, the elderly, recently divorced people, kids of divorced people, people with dysfunctional families, people who are unemployed, the homeless, the list goes on, and on...). Wouldn't it, arguably, be in fact the MORE Christian thing to do, to host something thats open to all denominations, to encourage a solidarity between people, to help one another regardless of their personal beliefs during the holiday season?

Freedom of speech in America, sure. But we're also well known to believe in the concept of "United we Stand, Divided we Fall", no?
__________________
"..I think you need to stop following misery's lead.
Shine away. Shine away. Shine away.
Isn't it time you got over how fragile you are?
We're all waiting on your supernova, 'cause that's who you are.
And you've only begun to shine.."
GradPhase is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice
and no guarantee is made against accuracy.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:27 AM.






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2