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Old 04-09-2012, 03:46 PM   #1
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Default Question about C25K

And please bare with me if this has been asked a thousand times! I tried searching, but it's hard to find specifics and there's a LOT of threads about c25K.

OK, so here's the question: How typical is it to need to repeat weeks? The program actually progresses pretty quickly and it is making assumptions that you can make it to 5k in 9 weeks and with slightly less than 10 minute miles from the beginning of the time you start running.

Really? for people who are unfit - like "on the couch"?

I'm trying to figure out running for myself. I'm not unfit, but I'm a new runner. I do strength training and step aerobics. On Thursday I ran 1 mile in 11:40. On Saturday, I decided to try Week 5 day 1. I warmed up for 8 minutes (walking the half mile) and then I started to run. I only got .4 miles and I was sucking wind - bad. Ended up just walking the remaining time for a total of 2.7 miles.

Tomorrow I'm going to try again, but probably drop back to Week 4 - which I'm OK with - I'm just trying to find a good starting point for myself and I think my beginner's luck was just that - beginner's luck.

But now I'm wondering how common it is to have to repeat sessions and even weeks WITHOUT missing any sessions - just realizing you aren't ready for the next step up? I might want to run a 5K as a motivation this summer, but want to be smart about my timing of it.

What has your experience been - without missing sessions - just with how long it has taken to progress?

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Old 04-09-2012, 09:23 PM   #2
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My experience with C25K was this - I tried it two or three times, it made me miserable because by week 2 or 3 it felt too hard, and I quit each time.

My problem, I am certain, was that I was running too fast. And I don't mean FAST, I just mean running at something quicker than a snail's pace. My lungs couldn't keep up, not even remotely, and I was getting shin splints each time.

When I started trying to run again on my own, I deliberately ran as slowly as I could make myself go. And it worked. I could run much longer, and even though I still found it hard, within a few weeks I could run 3 miles at a time without feeling like I was going to die. I've been running now for about 16 weeks in total, and my run on Saturday was 6.2 miles. I still do those longer runs at a VERY slow pace (12:30/mile), but over time I've been able to improve my speed on the shorter runs... though I'm still nowhere close to the 6mph (10 min/mile) pace that the C25K program assumes.


My advice would be to go as slowly as you can make yourself go, slower than it feels natural to go. It might feel weird the first few minutes, but after a few minutes in you'll be really glad you're going slowly. Ignore the 10 min/mile pace assumption.

And repeat as many weeks, as many times, as you want or need to. You don't need to follow the program strictly to get to the point of being able to run a 5K; you can get there lots of ways. Do whatever works best for you. You've been exercising long enough to know when you're challenging yourself in a good way vs. pushing yourself too hard or to the point where you don't enjoy what you're doing, and you can and should find that same middle ground with the running regardless of the C25K program schedule.

Just my two cents. Good luck with the running, and have fun.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:19 PM   #3
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Personal opinion, longtime runner:

It's totally unrealistic for previously inactive people to get to 5K in 9 weeks. It's even more unrealistic for people who are overweight and/or female.

TOTALLY unrealistic.

I'd strongly suggest that you take longer, not shorter, to get to the distance. Your cardiovascular fitness may well be there already, but unless you've been doing stuff that's both weight-bearing and high-impact, your body--your musculoskeletal system--needs time to get used to the pounding that running is built on.

Lots and lots of C25K runners get injured by progessing too far too fast. Don't be one of them. You took years to get as big and unfit as you were, you can spend the few more weeks working up to the longer runs.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MariaMaria View Post
Personal opinion, longtime runner:

It's totally unrealistic for previously inactive people to get to 5K in 9 weeks. It's even more unrealistic for people who are overweight and/or female.

TOTALLY unrealistic.

I'd strongly suggest that you take longer, not shorter, to get to the distance. Your cardiovascular fitness may well be there already, but unless you've been doing stuff that's both weight-bearing and high-impact, your body--your musculoskeletal system--needs time to get used to the pounding that running is built on.

Lots and lots of C25K runners get injured by progessing too far too fast. Don't be one of them. You took years to get as big and unfit as you were, you can spend the few more weeks working up to the longer runs.

That's what I'm saying - I don't see how it can "really" be couch to 5k really.

For me personally, I've been exercising 4-5 times a week a combo of cardio and strength training for over a year. I do step aerobics 2-3 times a week and strength training 2-3 times a week and throw in fast walking. I walk 14:45 minute miles. I do power/propulsion in step aerobics. I'm not unfit. I'm just not a runner (yet).

But I am starting from the beginning. Just did Week 1 Day 1 in a bit under 14 minute miles - still fumblig with my apps, so I'm a a few seconds, but it's about that... so, I'm SLOW, but I was sucking wind too!

It's 10 minutes of warm up/cool down and the alternating 90 seconds of walking with 60 seconds of running.
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Old 04-10-2012, 03:36 PM   #5
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Yeah, for most people--most non-young, non-male people-- it's not really couch and not really 5K.

If you're walking 14:45s (wow, fast) and you're sucking air at running 1 minute at 13:45, slow down. A lot. Think jog, not run. As long as you've got one foot off the ground at all times, it's running. The terminology (wanting to "run!" rather than jog) messes up a lot of new runners who think they're supposed to look like Paula Radcliffe as they build up miles. It doesn't work that way.

Bob Glover, the NYRRC's training/classes guy, takes 20 weeks (at a suggested 4-5 runs/whatevers a week) to get beginners to 30 minutes straight of running. And there's no assumption there that 30 minues is 3 miles. (See http://www.amazon.com/The-Runners-Ha...4086334&sr=8-2 .)
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaMaria View Post
If you're walking 14:45s (wow, fast) and you're sucking air at running 1 minute at 13:45, slow down. A lot.
That was my time for the whole 30 minutes including the warm up and cool down and walking. I have no idea what my 'run' pace was, but the whole pace overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaMaria View Post
Think jog, not run. As long as you've got one foot off the ground at all times, it's running. The terminology (wanting to "run!" rather than jog) messes up a lot of new runners who think they're supposed to look like Paula Radcliffe as they build up miles. It doesn't work that way.

Bob Glover, the NYRRC's training/classes guy, takes 20 weeks (at a suggested 4-5 runs/whatevers a week) to get beginners to 30 minutes straight of running. And there's no assumption there that 30 minues is 3 miles. (See http://www.amazon.com/The-Runners-Ha...4086334&sr=8-2 .)
This makes more sense to me. Just like my weight loss - I'm not in a race to get to jogging/running to a certain point by a certain time, which was part of the reason I asked what people typically have to do to get to 5K realistically as the 8-9 week program seemed pretty darn quick!!!
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #7
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Yes, I hadn't thought of it this way, but the programme I use emphasizes time, not distance or speed.

I have to say i have never looked at C25K, but I run very very slowly. Honestly I could walk faster. BUT today I moved up to run faster for 1 minute, jog pathetically slowly for 1 min to recover. 3 repeats in the middle of a run. I enjoyed it, but it has taken me 7 weeks to get to this point! And even my faster is not actually that fast!

I like using time, rather than distance or speed (time as in run 1 min/walk1min or run2 min/walk1 min etc) but maybe perhaps this is just because it worked for me! As hubby is finding out, being fit does not necessarily mean being fit for running!

If you want I could post the link...the programme is on the Christchurch NZ library website. Are we allowed to post links? Or do i have to PM you?

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Old 04-10-2012, 05:04 PM   #8
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So I started a C25K (the NHS C25K free podcast on iTunes) and when it got to week 5 it had 3 different runs. The first two had you run 8 minutes straight but then on the 3rd run it had you run 20 minutes straight. 8 mins to 20 mins? Um, no.

So I decided to progress at my own pace after that. Made some awesome playlists (the music on the podcast was pretty bad and that was part of the reason I stopped following it) but spent some time finding the right bpm songs for me . . . and right now that's about 160 bpms which equals 5.1/5.2 mph. I'm sure to 'real runners' that's a 'jog' at best but I don't care, it's what I can do. Plus I"m also short so my stride isn't very long.

My goal right now is to run for xx length of time (the longest I've gotten to is about 18/19 mins, which equates to about 1.5miles) straight. I'm not too concerned with how fast I"m going nearly as much as I'm working on just being able to run for xx length of time. Once that's mastered I can concern myself with speed.

I'm only on a TM at this point and I'm guessing that running, er . . jogging in the real world feels a lot different . . propelling yourself vs. 'keeping up' on the TM. Hope that makes sense.

I did notice that when I started this after about 3 or 4 weeks the scale just stopped moving down for me; March was a complete standstill. Maybe is was just a coincidence, don't know. So I'm changing up the frequency of my running just like I do with the other exercises I do, sometimes running 3x/wk sometimes 2x/week to try and get the scale to move down. This week I'm only running tomorrow and Friday.

If you're looking to find out the bpm of songs, try this link. http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm Just bring up that page and as you're listening to a song, literally tap the beat on the keyboard and it will give you the bpm. It took me a couple of tries on the TM to find what pace worked but once I found it then I could look for songs that had that bpm.

If you want more info on music for running, let me know.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loose seal View Post
So I started a C25K (the NHS C25K free podcast on iTunes) and when it got to week 5 it had 3 different runs. The first two had you run 8 minutes straight but then on the 3rd run it had you run 20 minutes straight. 8 mins to 20 mins? Um, no.

So I decided to progress at my own pace after that. Made some awesome playlists (the music on the podcast was pretty bad and that was part of the reason I stopped following it) but spent some time finding the right bpm songs for me . . . and right now that's about 160 bpms which equals 5.1/5.2 mph. I'm sure to 'real runners' that's a 'jog' at best but I don't care, it's what I can do. Plus I"m also short so my stride isn't very long.

My goal right now is to run for xx length of time (the longest I've gotten to is about 18/19 mins, which equates to about 1.5miles) straight. I'm not too concerned with how fast I"m going nearly as much as I'm working on just being able to run for xx length of time. Once that's mastered I can concern myself with speed.

I'm only on a TM at this point and I'm guessing that running, er . . jogging in the real world feels a lot different . . propelling yourself vs. 'keeping up' on the TM. Hope that makes sense.

I did notice that when I started this after about 3 or 4 weeks the scale just stopped moving down for me; March was a complete standstill. Maybe is was just a coincidence, don't know. So I'm changing up the frequency of my running just like I do with the other exercises I do, sometimes running 3x/wk sometimes 2x/week to try and get the scale to move down. This week I'm only running tomorrow and Friday.

If you're looking to find out the bpm of songs, try this link. http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm Just bring up that page and as you're listening to a song, literally tap the beat on the keyboard and it will give you the bpm. It took me a couple of tries on the TM to find what pace worked but once I found it then I could look for songs that had that bpm.

If you want more info on music for running, let me know.
Oh thank you! And more info on music for runnign would be great. Today (and the other day) was just counting breathing in and out and trying to keep it steady. Doesn't work starting out at in-2-3-4 and out-2-3-4 and then in-2-3 and then out 2-3 and when I was nearing the end of the 1 minute of running it was in-2 out-2 (in beat with my feet hitting the pavement).
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by autodidact View Post
Yes, I hadn't thought of it this way, but the programme I use emphasizes time, not distance or speed.

I have to say i have never looked at C25K, but I run very very slowly. Honestly I could walk faster. BUT today I moved up to run faster for 1 minute, jog pathetically slowly for 1 min to recover. 3 repeats in the middle of a run. I enjoyed it, but it has taken me 7 weeks to get to this point! And even my faster is not actually that fast!

I like using time, rather than distance or speed (time as in run 1 min/walk1min or run2 min/walk1 min etc) but maybe perhaps this is just because it worked for me! As hubby is finding out, being fit does not necessarily mean being fit for running!

If you want I could post the link...the programme is on the Christchurch NZ library website. Are we allowed to post links? Or do i have to PM you?

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While i think there are probably programs out there that are better than C25k, I'm using it because there is so much support for it - like the app telling to walk and then to jog. That makes it so much easier and for today, weirdly enough, just when I felt my heartrate had recovered from running, it was time to run again, so it was the perfect level.

And for me, I know, I would be super frustrated if my running time was slower than my walking time - I might as well walk and have less stress on my body.
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:39 PM   #11
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Interesting discussion...I'm finishing W2 of C25K this week. I've heard of several people getting to 5K but most took longer than 9 weeks. In fact, the program website encourages beginners to redo weeks if they feel appropriate. Here is a story of someone who finished a modified C25K program in less than 9 weeks (and over 200 when she started)....

http://www.runsforcookies.com/2011/0...se-weight.html

And a story of someone who took more than 9 weeks but was over 300 when she started...

http://www.runsforcookies.com/2012/0...uest-post.html
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #12
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Oh thank you! And more info on music for runnign would be great. Today (and the other day) was just counting breathing in and out and trying to keep it steady. Doesn't work starting out at in-2-3-4 and out-2-3-4 and then in-2-3 and then out 2-3 and when I was nearing the end of the 1 minute of running it was in-2 out-2 (in beat with my feet hitting the pavement).
Today - for the very first time ever - I ran 30 mins straight! Whoot!! I ran for a total of 8 songs; two warm up songs then the first two running songs were at 4.9 and 5.0mph, the rest were all at 5.1mph and a 1% incline.

When I started out it took me awhile to find a beat and a speed that worked for me. I literally spent a day or two of my TM workout time just trying different songs to find what I was comfortable with. Once I found a beats-per-minute (bpm) song then I just had to find more songs within that range.

There's a song called "Bang, Bang, Bang" by Christina Perri that is 160 bpm and for me it's a perfect beat to run 5.1 mph. So I built playlists around that bpm, anywhere from 156bpm to 161bpm.

I found this site which is way helpful. http://jog.fm/ You put in your mile time and it gives you pages and pages and pages of songs within that bpm range. The one thing I found, though, is that the miles/minute time on the first page and the bpm it gives you don't match up (at least not for me). I run a 11:30-12:00 min mile but the bpm on those songs is way too slow so I fudged the min/mile number and put in 9:00 and THAT gives me songs in the 160 bpm range. You can listen to a sample of the song and it gives links to iTunes and Amazonmp3 to purchase.

If you have an iTunes library you can enter the bpm on your library so you can then build playlists around it. Right click up where it says "name, artist, album, etc" and it will give you a list of things you can add (or delete); check 'beats per minute' so now you have a column for it. Then right click on a song, then click 'get info' and then click 'info' tab. About half-way down on the right is a place where you can manually enter the bpm for the song.

I don't run to every song that is 'on beat' but I do find that having those songs in there is often just the push I need to keep going.

Oh yeah, I also found this site, "80's dance songs by bpm". Just for more options! http://www.the80sdj.com/80s-songs-by-bpm.htm
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:19 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by loose seal View Post
Today - for the very first time ever - I ran 30 mins straight! Whoot!! I ran for a total of 8 songs; two warm up songs then the first two running songs were at 4.9 and 5.0mph, the rest were all at 5.1mph and a 1% incline.

When I started out it took me awhile to find a beat and a speed that worked for me. I literally spent a day or two of my TM workout time just trying different songs to find what I was comfortable with. Once I found a beats-per-minute (bpm) song then I just had to find more songs within that range.

There's a song called "Bang, Bang, Bang" by Christina Perri that is 160 bpm and for me it's a perfect beat to run 5.1 mph. So I built playlists around that bpm, anywhere from 156bpm to 161bpm.

I found this site which is way helpful. http://jog.fm/ You put in your mile time and it gives you pages and pages and pages of songs within that bpm range. The one thing I found, though, is that the miles/minute time on the first page and the bpm it gives you don't match up (at least not for me). I run a 11:30-12:00 min mile but the bpm on those songs is way too slow so I fudged the min/mile number and put in 9:00 and THAT gives me songs in the 160 bpm range. You can listen to a sample of the song and it gives links to iTunes and Amazonmp3 to purchase.

If you have an iTunes library you can enter the bpm on your library so you can then build playlists around it. Right click up where it says "name, artist, album, etc" and it will give you a list of things you can add (or delete); check 'beats per minute' so now you have a column for it. Then right click on a song, then click 'get info' and then click 'info' tab. About half-way down on the right is a place where you can manually enter the bpm for the song.

I don't run to every song that is 'on beat' but I do find that having those songs in there is often just the push I need to keep going.

Oh yeah, I also found this site, "80's dance songs by bpm". Just for more options! http://www.the80sdj.com/80s-songs-by-bpm.htm
Wow thanks for the info! And I cannot IMAGINE running on a treadmill - like ever. I hate that thing vehemently! So wow to you on that!

As far as music. I have ZERO songs on my iphone My husband has a HUGE itunes library though (and I love music, just have never felt the need to have it on my phone). I suppose I can start trying to create something, but egads that sounds time consuming! Maybe it's a task I can give him as that's stuff he likes to do.

I'm assuming for running outside, I should use an earphone in one ear, not two for safety reasons?
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:38 AM   #14
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I've been following this thread with great interest, and am finding all of this BPM chat fascinating! In my mind, if I like the song, I can run to it better than if I don't, which is why I find the NHS podcasts and such really annoying apart from 'Laura' telling you when to walk and when to jog. I just wish I had an iphone not a blackberry, as the blackberry app is terrible.

I've made a playlist not using BPM but using song lengths for tomorrow (Week 5 day1) and will see how that works out. If it doesn't, then I have an excuse to spend tomorrow playing with songs instead of doing uni work, bonus!

I also find the discussion about the plausibility of the program as it stands in its 9 week format interesting too. A year ago I tried it twice and failed twice thanks to that mad 8 - 20 minute jump. But I was really overweight and really unfit. This time around I'm fitter and thinner, and a week away from giving it another go! I know that right now the 5 minute runs are leaving me tired, but I think that its more psychological than anything else. I would love to believe that with my favourite tunes, and a proper mindset, running pace and having eaten and drunk the right things prior to setting out on my tried and tested route I WILL be able to do it. But, if not, I'm not giving up this time. I'll work my own way to the magical and as yet illusive 5K goal, bring it on!
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:09 AM   #15
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I found an app last night in the iTunes store that was free that uses an interface that shows warm up time, when to jog, when to run, elapsed time, etc. It's put out by Zen Labs and I think it's just calls C25K.

It has the music player at the bottom so you can utilize your own music already on your phone. The only thing that bothers me at the moment is it seems to be finicky when I want to choose, say, an entire album rather than a playlist or just all songs. But, I've played with it all of five minutes so maybe I'm doing something dumb and I'll figure it out.

I can't stand that "techno-y" type music or bubbly pop which is what many podcasts were built around so I had to find some thing else or I just wouldn't use it. Hopefully this one works well.
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