3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community  

Go Back   3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community > Diet Central > Does it Work?

Does it Work? Unsure if the latest product or service lives up to it's claims? From popular products to the latest scams, discuss it here before you buy!

Alleged "Hoodia" pills and products - the latest scam!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-06-2004, 09:56 AM   #16
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

I've removed the link from your post. No, we don't recommend that supplier, or any other. I would suggest reading the post above from Nigel Crawhill http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/show...0&postcount=18 and you'll see that the hoodia you buy online is not the real thing. I don't know what you purchased, but it's impossible to know what is in it, if it is safe, contaminated, contains dangerous materials, etc.

For anyone that is interested in genuine hoodia, do not buy it on the internet! WAIT until a valid source is established. We'll do our best to be the first to tell you all about it. I wouldn't expect this to happen for several years.

Isn't it even illegal to take Hoodia out of Africa? I read a news release about that several months ago, I'll go try to find it. Therefore, the stuff you buy online is not hoodia. It's been established that these pills contain very little, if any at all, and who knows what the rest of it is. Taking whatever it is would be about the same as taking candy from strangers on the street - we warned our kids not to do that, so why would we put ourselves in the same position?
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Old 12-06-2004, 03:05 PM   #17
Uber-Moderator!!
 
MrsJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 5,024

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DietingLady
Hello, in 3F -

Recently I came back from a trip to find bottles of something called Desert Burn, claiming to contain 750 mg of 100% pure Hoodia Gordonii.
Just adding to what Suzanne wrote...

For some reason, I think a lot of people didn't catch in the 60 Minutes broadcast a couple of pieces of VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION. They just heard that an active ingredient in hoodia supresses appetite and then just went on the Internet and bought some pills or whatever...

Reiterating those important points again...

1) The ONLY authentic source of hoodia is from Phytopharm, who holds the exclusive license to market/produce hoodia.

2) At this juncture, it appears that THE ONLY WAY to get the active ingredient to 'work' is to eat a piece of FRESH hoodia - as Nigel said "about 2 or 3 inches long, ideally fresh and full of rain water". Keep in mind that Pfizer pulled their funding because the active ingredient COULD NOT BE MADE INTO A PILL. I would assume that those dried 'hoodia teas' and etc are bogus too.

3) There is JUST NOT enough hoodia currently being produced to be able to supply all those internet stores who are purportedly selling the stuff - reiterating the 60 Minutes broadcast:

Quote:
60 Minutes visited one of Phytopharm’s hoodia plantations in South Africa. They’ll need a lot of these plantations to meet the expected demand.

Agronomist Simon MacWilliam has a tall order: grow a billion portions a year of hoodia, within just a couple of years. He admitted that starting up the plantation has been quite a challenge.

"The problem is we’re dealing with a novel crop. It’s a plant we’ve taken out of the wild and we’re starting to grow it,' says MacWilliam. "So we have no experience. So it’s different— diseases and pests which we have to deal with."

How confident are they that they will be able to grow enough? "We're very confident of that," he says. "We've got an expansion program which is going to be 100s of acres. And we'll be able – ready to meet the demand.

This could be huge, given the obesity epidemic. Phytopharm says it’s about to announce marketing plans that will have meal-replacement hoodia products on supermarket shelves by 2008.

MacWilliam says these products are a slightly different species from the hoodia Stahl tasted in the Kalahari Desert. "It's actually a lot more bitter than the plant that you tasted," says MacWilliam.

The advantage is this species of hoodia will grow a lot faster. But more bitter? How bad could it be? Stahl decided to find out. "Not good," she says.

Phytopharm says that when its product gets to market, it will be certified safe and effective. They also promise that it’ll taste good.
This is an example where a bit of information is blown totally out of wack - I would be willing to bet that most people didn't even SEE the 60 Minutes show, or maybe didn't pay attention to all the details if they did watch it. All they know is that there's this plant that Lesley Stahl ate a bit of, and it supressed her appetite. Just out of curiosity, I did an ebay search for Hoodia a few days ago and I was aghast - I saw auctions starting at $300+ for 'hoodia pills'. And what's more, many of the sellers are using 'as seen on 60 Minutes' as a tag line to sell this crap! PLEASE don't fall for this!

My advice - DON'T spend your hard-earned money on ANY product claiming to contain hoodia UNTIL you see products being marketed by Phytopharm, which is not expected to be until AT LEAST 2008 - and unless there's some groundbreaking scientific strides made, don't expect it to be in pill form - more than likely it will be sold as a fresh 'vegetable' or made into shakes or bars.
__________________
Mrs. Jim
Highest weight: 265 pounds, size 24/26 (May 1990)
May 1991: 174 pounds (-91 lbs)
September 1996: 155 pounds (-110 lbs)
*LIVING at: 145-149 pounds, size 4/6 (-116/120 lbs)

*Maintenance = LIVING.
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy. Please see your physician before taking advice found on the internet.

Wanna know how I lost the weight and have kept it off for over 16 years? Click here!
MrsJim is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 08:12 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3

Default

I must say, I am surprised that you removed my post from your site! Seeing that I am the only grower and person speaking on this matter straight from South Africa; i.e. first hand knowledge!

Here we have pharmaceutical companies trying to monopolize the market with draconian tactics, like the people you mentioned stating that Hoodia does not work in raw form only extracted p57. Why all the fuss if it doesn’t work?

I have news for you; you have all fallen prey to a hideous scam.

Firstly most the Hoodia sold is blended or wrongly identified; thus no strength in their dosages. Secondly - obviously the pharmaceutical companies will push their extract as the only working one, since they have a patent on the working extract; can make money from all who sell it and would like as little competition possible to damage their market and monopoly. I thought this forum was a truth seeking open minded one? I am beginning to wonder if this forum is not a part to this draconian campaign.

In our country they tried to stop us from growing this product, saying that Hoodia gordonii is patented. This is not so and one cannot patent a plant; thus all the chaos and market manipulation at present to avoid a pure product that could stop their potential drug. Imagine if I patented a tomato plant and all across the world using tomatoes had to pay me royalties for eating tomatoes, ridiculous right? – Well so is the claim that only one company, body or entity can have the real Hoodia. Why would they push to have Hoodia in snack bars; pure Hoodia not extract if pure Hoodia does not work? The same company who said it doesn’t work in raw form signed a contract to do this snack bar idea with another giant? Incidentally it is interesting that the other giant is potentially part of the obesity problem, chocolates sweets and such! They want the market, that’s why and no one cares to oppose them.

This post too will probably end up being deleted; right? The truth hurts and many would not like their bubbles burst. I know many of you have been burned by ‘drugs’ for curbing your appetite and also their hyped up marketing scams. Too further this greedy ‘people’ tried jumping onboard selling what they claimed to be Hoodia gordonii. Thus I can understand your misconceptions and readiness to believe any suitable propaganda structure in your favor to support your ‘aggression’ against falsehood. But know this, just as you were manipulated to buy those drug companies and sellers of the fake Hoodia, so now you are being manipulated to forget about this obesity help called Hoodia gordonii.

(*edited to remove hoodia offer*)

My previous post stated my wife using this; I would like the mods on this forum to place that info, edited if must - and share it with you. It was a sincere post with no ulterior motives, same as this one - and it was deleted why?

I suppose, maybe I too am bias being pushed by large companies whom I suspect to control mush more than we realize, thus if my question whether you are part of this campaign is inappropriate, I sincerely apologize!!!
African is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 09:37 AM   #19
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

African, the mods removed your other post because it appeared as a solicitation, with several references to your company that sells the product. This is strictly against the guidelines of the forum.

I have removed the hoodia offer from your current post, for the same reason. I have also removed references to your company from your profile.

Our site is a support forum for weight loss through a healthy diet and exercise program, without the use of controversial products. At the moment, hoodia is VERY controversial. We've been made aware that the vast majority of the hoodia products sold online are not hoodia at all, or that they contain such a small amount that it is useless. Of course every hoodia dealer is going to step forward and say their product is different, it's a sales pitch. Why should your company be any different?

We agree that there is potential for this product, but the problem seems to be getting it in an effective form that can be distributed among millions of people. According to the 60 Minutes news broadcast, the pills that are being sold are not the real thing, and that research has shown that hoodia cannot be made into pill form and still be effective. THIS is the information we rely on, and not sales pitches which are always going to be biased. Why would someone try to sell a product, and say at the same time that their product doesn't work?

We will wait. When Phytopharm, as well as the medical establishments in the US say that this product is the the real thing - an effective and safe way to curb appetite, and not counterfeit products, then we will gladly promote it. In the meantime, we feel that it is our duty to help protect our members against potentially fraudulent, potentially dangerous mystery products, and promote weight loss the old fashioned way - through healthy diet and exercise. Even WITH a valid source of hoodia, diet and exercise are still required for weight loss. Hoodia - even the real thing - doesn't cause weight loss. It's just an appetite suppressant for people that have appetite problems. We already have a solution for that, and our doctors can prescribe safe medications and provide constant medical supervision while taking them. You can't get that online.

From 60 minutes:
The future of hoodia is not yet a sure thing. The project hit a major snag last year. Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, which had teamed up with Phytopharm, and funded much of the research, dropped out when making a pill out of the active ingredient seemed beyond reach.

So if a company such as Pfizer cannot put hoodia in a pill and it be effective, why can all of these no-name small companies that are popping up online daily?
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 09:39 AM   #20
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

For anyone that is interested, here is the full CBS article
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...-SearchStories
Quote:
(CBS) Each year, people spend more than $40 billion on products designed to help them slim down. None of them seem to be working very well.

Now along comes hoodia. Never heard of it? Soon it'll be tripping off your tongue, because hoodia is a natural substance that literally takes your appetite away.

It's very different from diet stimulants like Ephedra and Phenfen that are now banned because of dangerous side effects. Hoodia doesn't stimulate at all. Scientists say it fools the brain by making you think you’re full, even if you've eaten just a morsel. Correspondent Lesley Stahl reports. Hoodia is a bitter-tasting cactus-like plant. 60 Minutes was told that if it wanted to try hoodia, it would have to go to Africa. Why? Because the only place in the world where hoodia grows wild is in the Kalahari Desert of South Africa.

Nigel Crawhall, a linguist and interpreter, hired an experienced tracker named Toppies Kruiper, a local aboriginal Bushman, to help find it. The Bushmen were featured in the movie “The Gods Must Be Crazy.”

Kruiper led 60 Minutes crews out into the desert. Stahl asked him if he ate hoodia. "I really like to eat them when the new rains have come," says Kruiper, speaking through the interpreter. "Then they're really quite delicious."

When we located the plant, Kruiper cut off a stalk that looked like a small spiky pickle, and removed the sharp spines. In the interest of science, Stahl ate it. She described the taste as "a little cucumbery in texture, but not bad."

So how did it work? Stahl says she had no after effects – no funny taste in her mouth, no queasy stomach, and no racing heart. She also wasn't hungry all day, even when she would normally have a pang around mealtime. And, she also had no desire to eat or drink the entire day. "I'd have to say it did work," says Stahl.

Although the West is just discovering hoodia, the Bushmen of the Kalahari have been eating it for a very long time. After all, they have been living off the land in southern Africa for more than 100,000 years.

Some of the Bushmen, like Anna Swartz, still live in old traditional huts, and cook so-called Bush food gathered from the desert the old-fashioned way.

The first scientific investigation of the plant was conducted at South Africa’s national laboratory. Because Bushmen were known to eat hoodia, it was included in a study of indigenous foods.

"What they found was when they fed it to animals, the animals ate it and lost weight," says Dr. Richard Dixey, who heads an English pharmaceutical company called Phytopharm that is trying to develop weight-loss products based on hoodia.

Was hoodia's potential application as an appetite suppressant immediately obvious?

"No, it took them a long time. In fact, the original research was done in the mid 1960s," says Dixey.

It took the South African national laboratory 30 years to isolate and identify the specific appetite-suppressing ingredient in hoodia. When they found it, they applied for a patent and licensed it to Phytopharm.

Phytopharm has spent more than $20 million so far on research, including clinical trials with obese volunteers that have yielded promising results. Subjects given hoodia ended up eating about 1,000 calories a day less than those in the control group. To put that in perspective, the average American man consumes about 2,600 calories a day; a woman about 1,900.

"If you take this compound every day, your wish to eat goes down. And we've seen that very, very dramatically," says Dixey.

But why do you need a patent for a plant? "The patent is on the application of the plant as a weight-loss material. And, of course, the active compounds within the plant. It’s not on the plant itself," says Dixey.

So no one else can use hoodia for weight loss? "As a weight-management product without infringing the patent, that’s correct," says Dixey.

But what does that say about all these weight-loss products that claim to have hoodia in it? Trimspa says its X32 pills contain 75 mg of hoodia. The company is pushing its product with an ad campaign featuring Anna Nicole Smith, even though the FDA has notified Trimspa that it hasn’t demonstrated that the product is safe.

Some companies have even used the results of Phytopharm’s clinical tests to market their products.

"This is just straightforward theft. That’s what it is. People are stealing data, which they haven’t done, they’ve got no proper understanding of, and sticking on the bottle," says Dixey. "When we have assayed these materials, they contain between 0.1 and 0.01 percent of the active ingredient claimed. But they use the term hoodia on the bottle, of course, so they -- does nothing at all."

But Dixey isn’t the only one who’s felt ripped off. The Bushmen first heard the news about the patent when Phytopharm put out a press release. Roger Chennells, a lawyer in South Africa who represents the Bushmen, who are also called “the San,” was appalled.

"The San did not even know about it," says Chennells. "They had given the information that led directly toward the patent."

The taking of traditional knowledge without compensation is called “bio-piracy.”

"You have said, and I'm going to quote you, 'that the San felt as if someone had stolen the family silver,'" says Stahl to Chennells. "So what did you do?"

"I wouldn't want to go into some of the details as to what kind of letters were written or what kind of threats were made," says Chennells. "We engaged them. They had done something wrong, and we wanted them to acknowledge it."

Chennells was determined to help the Bushmen who, he says, have been exploited for centuries. First they were pushed aside by black tribes. Then, when white colonists arrived, they were nearly annihilated.

"About the turn of the century, there were still hunting parties in Namibia and in South Africa that allowed farmers to go and kill Bushmen," says Chennells. "It's well documented."

The Bushmen are still stigmatized in South Africa, and plagued with high unemployment, little education, and lots of alcoholism. And now, it seemed they were about to be cut out of a potential windfall from hoodia. So Chennells threatened to sue the national lab on their behalf.

"We knew that if it was successful, many, many millions of dollars would be coming towards the San," says Chennells. "Many, many millions. They've talked about the market being hundreds and hundreds of millions in America."
In the end, a settlement was reached. The Bushmen will get a percentage of the profits -- if there are profits. But that’s a big if.

The future of hoodia is not yet a sure thing. The project hit a major snag last year. Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, which had teamed up with Phytopharm, and funded much of the research, dropped out when making a pill out of the active ingredient seemed beyond reach.

Dixey says it can be made synthetically: "We've made milligrams of it. But it's very expensive. It's not possible to make it synthetically in what’s called a scaleable process. So we couldn’t make a metric ton of it or something that is the sort of quantity you’d need to actually start doing something about obesity in thousands of people."

Phytopharm decided to market hoodia in its natural form, in diet shakes and bars. That meant it needed the hoodia plant itself.

But given the obesity epidemic in the United States, it became obvious that what was needed was a lot of hoodia - much more than was growing in the wild in the Kalahari. And so they came here.

60 Minutes visited one of Phytopharm’s hoodia plantations in South Africa. They’ll need a lot of these plantations to meet the expected demand.

Agronomist Simon MacWilliam has a tall order: grow a billion portions a year of hoodia, within just a couple of years. He admitted that starting up the plantation has been quite a challenge.

"The problem is we’re dealing with a novel crop. It’s a plant we’ve taken out of the wild and we’re starting to grow it,' says MacWilliam. "So we have no experience. So it’s different— diseases and pests which we have to deal with."

How confident are they that they will be able to grow enough? "We're very confident of that," he says. "We've got an expansion program which is going to be 100s of acres. And we'll be able – ready to meet the demand.

This could be huge, given the obesity epidemic. Phytopharm says it’s about to announce marketing plans that will have meal-replacement hoodia products on supermarket shelves by 2008.

MacWilliam says these products are a slightly different species from the hoodia Stahl tasted in the Kalahari Desert. "It's actually a lot more bitter than the plant that you tasted," says MacWilliam.

The advantage is this species of hoodia will grow a lot faster. But more bitter? How bad could it be? Stahl decided to find out. "Not good," she says.

Phytopharm says that when its product gets to market, it will be certified safe and effective. They also promise that it’ll taste good.
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 12:06 PM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3

Default

No name companies ... hmmm

Nestle currently working on their entry into the diet market would be very suprized to hear them labeled as a no name company, I stressed in my response above that it is not a wonder cure - but i see that once again only the negative aspects suitable for your convenience were pulled out and the chance I gave the public or the mods to prove me wrong was edited.

Well I suppose we all have a right to our oppinion, as do the thousands of people who are saying that Hoodia does work!

See the story below, also recent discoveries have shown that it is not only the so called "P57" that is the active ingredient but rather a synergistic combination of other alkaloids, thus no wonder they could not make it into a pill!

Phytopharm near deal on slimming aid from cactus
December 9, 2003
Reuters
Mark Potter and Lara Smith
LONDON - British drugs-from-plants firm Phytopharm Plc was cited as saying on Tuesday it was in talks with four major food companies about making an appetite-suppressing snack from its drug programme based on a rare South African cactus.
Chief Executive Richard Dixey was quoted as telling Reuters, "We anticipate having indicative bids by the end of January."
The story says that Phytopharm's shares plunged last July when Pfizer Inc, the world's biggest drugmaker, dropped plans to make a medicine to treat obesity from Phytopharm's P57 programme, which is derived from the rare Hoodia cactus found in the Kalahari.
The Hoodia has been used by Bushmen for thousands of years to stave off hunger during hunting trips. The San people, or Bushmen, are due to get a share of profits if a product based on the Hoodia makes it to market.
Phytopharm's Dixey said the difficulties of manufacturing a plant-extract to meet pharmaceutical standards meant P57 had a better future in the $3 billion-a-year meal replacement market.
African is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 12:34 PM   #22
Uber-Moderator!!
 
MrsJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 5,024

Default

I must say, I am constantly amazed at how some people attempt to take a little bit of truth and twist it around to suit their own purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
Here we have pharmaceutical companies trying to monopolize the market with draconian tactics, like the people you mentioned stating that Hoodia does not work in raw form only extracted p57. Why all the fuss if it doesn’t work?
Actually, the 60 Minutes segment (quoted again by Suzanne above) stated that other than the P57 extract (which has apparently been extensively researched by Phytopharm and Pfizer) the most effective way to use hoodia is in RAW, FRESH form (as also stated by Nigel above):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Crawhall
I have tried hoodia, it is interesting, and i think it does suppress appetite. Lesley Stahl's really did try it and was being honest (unusual in media these days!). However, to make it work like that you need a piece about 2 to 3 inches long, ideally fresh and full of recent rain water.
Besides, I checked African's website and guess what...they are not selling the "Raw form" of hoodia either - rather it's pills and powders claiming to be 'pure hoodia powder'. I dunno about YOU, but to me, when a plant has been dried and pulverized, I no longer consider it "raw" OR "fresh".

And not even going into the whys and wherefores of whether or not Hoodia is/will be effective towards appetite suppression - here's the BIG question IMO -

How does the average prospective buyer KNOW that there is actually hoodia in these pills? And even if it IS hoodia...how do you KNOW it's actually Hoodia gordonii which is the ONLY species of hoodia that has been proven to be an appetite supressant? There are several hoodia species - some are even grown as houseplants, from what I've gathered. Note the initial BBC transcript on page one of this thread...where they studied pills claiming to contain Hoodia gordonii and NONE or very little was found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
Firstly most the Hoodia sold is blended or wrongly identified; thus no strength in their dosages. Secondly - obviously the pharmaceutical companies will push their extract as the only working one, since they have a patent on the working extract; can make money from all who sell it and would like as little competition possible to damage their market and monopoly.
So...you're saying that all the OTHER hoodia pill/powder/tea/product sites are scams EXCEPT for yours...for some reason I have a very, very difficult time believing that...besides, think of it this way: the pharmecutical companies are the ones who have spent YEARS and MILLIONS of dollars researching the possibilities of the plant and its active ingredients - aren't they ENTITLED to exclusivity for at least an initial time period? Actually, IMO what you and the other websites are doing is taking advantage of Phytopharm's research and expense and using it to make a quick buck...quoting the 60 Minutes segment above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 60 Minutes
Some companies have even used the results of Phytopharm’s clinical tests to market their products.

"This is just straightforward theft. That’s what it is. People are stealing data, which they haven’t done, they’ve got no proper understanding of, and sticking on the bottle," says Dixey. "When we have assayed these materials, they contain between 0.1 and 0.01 percent of the active ingredient claimed. But they use the term hoodia on the bottle, of course, so they -- does nothing at all."
Quote:
Originally Posted by African
In our country they tried to stop us from growing this product, saying that Hoodia gordonii is patented. This is not so and one cannot patent a plant; thus all the chaos and market manipulation at present to avoid a pure product that could stop their potential drug. Imagine if I patented a tomato plant and all across the world using tomatoes had to pay me royalties for eating tomatoes, ridiculous right?
Actually, plants CAN be and ARE patented, at least here in the United States - see this page from the US Patent Office website for more info. However...from what I've read, Phytopharm is not the patent owner - rather it is the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CISR) of South Africa. This according to Phytopharm's FAQ on their website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
See the story below, also recent discoveries have shown that it is not only the so called "P57" that is the active ingredient but rather a synergistic combination of other alkaloids, thus no wonder they could not make it into a pill!
First off - that article you quoted (without a URL) is a year old and second...aren't *YOU* marketing a pill...hmmmm...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
Nestle currently working on their entry into the diet market would be very suprized to hear them labeled as a no name company, I stressed in my response above that it is not a wonder cure - but i see that once again only the negative aspects suitable for your convenience were pulled out and the chance I gave the public or the mods to prove me wrong was edited.
You said it wasn't a wonder cure...but yet on your WEBSITE, you refer to your product as Hoodia Miracle Pills. Interesting....and what does NESTLE have to do with this whole topic anyway? Are THEY working on a hoodia product as well...? Somehow I doubt it.
__________________
Mrs. Jim
Highest weight: 265 pounds, size 24/26 (May 1990)
May 1991: 174 pounds (-91 lbs)
September 1996: 155 pounds (-110 lbs)
*LIVING at: 145-149 pounds, size 4/6 (-116/120 lbs)

*Maintenance = LIVING.
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy. Please see your physician before taking advice found on the internet.

Wanna know how I lost the weight and have kept it off for over 16 years? Click here!
MrsJim is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 12:43 PM   #23
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
the chance I gave the public or the mods to prove me wrong was edited.
I'm sorry, but our members are not subjects for experiments, we don't offer that here.

Quote:
Phytopharm says that when its product gets to market, it will be certified safe and effective.
Your company does not represent PhytoPharm, which holds the patent, and your products are not certified by PhytoPharm.

If any of our members wish to try the "hoodia" products that are currently on the market, instead of waiting until certified authentic, safe and effective products ARE available, then they can go to Google and find any number of so-called hoodia products for sale online. However, we cannot, in good conscience, allow these products to be promoted here.
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 02:11 PM   #24
Mel
Senior Member
 
Mel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 6,994

Default

I see another real problem here, especially if people managed to get their hands on REAL hoodia:

Quote:
she said she had no cravings and basically forgot about food even at regular mealtimes

Everyone with a little or a lot of weight to lose has said "wouldn't it be great to be anorexic...for a little while!" But it's NOT great. It's not a healthy way to lose weight. Not eating leads to muscle loss, fluid loss, eloctrolyte loss, BRAIN FUNCTION LOSS and if continued, DEATH. And it doesn't take that long. If somehow, people are actually obtaining real hoodia (which I very much doubt), unmonitored use is a really bad idea, no matter how much weight they have to lose.

Mel
__________________
Falling down is not failure....Failure is staying down.
Save the Earth, it's the only planet with chocolate and wine.

It isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain.

9 years at or under goal weight! Working Maintenance Everyday
Mel is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 02:29 PM   #25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2

Unhappy

Thanks for the info. However, it does disturb me a bit that someone could get a patent on something that grows in the ground. I guess what they've really patented is a chemical found in the plant, but I always prefer to take medicines in natural form if I can because the drug companies concentrate the essential elements to a degree the body was never intended to tolerate, producing all sorts of side effects.

Even natural products can be abused or contraindicated, of course, so self-education is important, but whenever certified Hoodia Gordonii itself is available -- either in powdered or fresh form, whichever works, that's what I'll be inclined to try, not Phytopharm's articificial product.

I didn't see the 60 minutes show and now have to decide whether to keep taking the Hoodia powder my husband bought.

I'm used to taking herbal supplements and monitoring my body's reaction and I've noted nothing adverse so far. I'm wondering about the problem, though, of knowing what's really in the pills -- or in any herbal supplements, for that matter.

I checked and found that all of my herbal supplements have the same statement that the Hoodia powder bottle does: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease." However, the statement applies to claims about what the product's results, not to whether the bottle contains what it says it does.

Aren't there laws against mislabeling which apply here? This is a U.S. manufacture and I can't imagine he wouldn't get in trouble for selling something that isn't what the container said it is. After examining all my bottles, I see nothing on the label to give me any more confidence that my Echinacea is what it is, than that this Hoodia is genuine.

I'd certainly like to continue taking the pills since I got on the scales this morning and have lost 3 pounds with virtually no effort. What a quandry!

Dieting Lady
DietingLady is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 03:27 PM   #26
Uber-Moderator!!
 
MrsJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 5,024

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DietingLady
I'm used to taking herbal supplements and monitoring my body's reaction and I've noted nothing adverse so far. I'm wondering about the problem, though, of knowing what's really in the pills -- or in any herbal supplements, for that matter.

I checked and found that all of my herbal supplements have the same statement that the Hoodia powder bottle does: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease." However, the statement applies to claims about what the product's results, not to whether the bottle contains what it says it does.

Aren't there laws against mislabeling which apply here? This is a U.S. manufacture and I can't imagine he wouldn't get in trouble for selling something that isn't what the container said it is. After examining all my bottles, I see nothing on the label to give me any more confidence that my Echinacea is what it is, than that this Hoodia is genuine.
You have to keep in mind that since 1994, the FDA's hands have been tied as far as monitoring the manufacturers of dietary/herbal supplements. (you can read about it here). So basically, unless a LOT of people are adversely affected by a product - such as what occurred with ephedra last year - the FDA cannot do a thing and these guys can say whatever they like as long as they put in that little disclaimer. And again...how do you KNOW that whatever it is you're taking is actually Hoodia? You said you didn't see the 60 Minutes segment a couple weeks ago, but the transcript has been posted here TWICE along with the link to the 60 Minutes page, which includes a video.

I've been watching this whole snake oil scam going on for years now. YEARS! The diet pill snake oil salespeople must have been overwhelmed with JOY when the initial reports on hoodia started coming down the pike, since they had lost ephedra/ma huang as their 'miracle pill'. Trust me...these companies don't stay in business very long - generally they change their names and packaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DietingLady
Even natural products can be abused or contraindicated, of course, so self-education is important, but whenever certified Hoodia Gordonii itself is available -- either in powdered or fresh form, whichever works, that's what I'll be inclined to try, not Phytopharm's articificial product.
Certified...by whom? And just how do you KNOW FOR SURE that the stuff you're putting in your body is 'natural' and not 'artificial'? Because the seller told you so? Also if you read the 60 Minutes quote, you'll see that the Phytopharm extract is NOT 'artificial':

Quote:
Originally Posted by 60 Minutes
The future of hoodia is not yet a sure thing. The project hit a major snag last year. Pharmaceutical giant Pfizer, which had teamed up with Phytopharm, and funded much of the research, dropped out when making a pill out of the active ingredient seemed beyond reach.

Dixey says it can be made synthetically: "We've made milligrams of it. But it's very expensive. It's not possible to make it synthetically in what’s called a scaleable process. So we couldn’t make a metric ton of it or something that is the sort of quantity you’d need to actually start doing something about obesity in thousands of people."

Phytopharm decided to market hoodia in its natural form, in diet shakes and bars. That meant it needed the hoodia plant itself.
This might be a good place to quote the initial BBC documentary transcript which you can find in the first post of this thread:

Quote:
I discovered some of the Hoodia has already reached the United States where a "grey" market in the Hoodia has already taken off. You can check the net for Hoodia products, but be careful, as the ones I found are worthless frauds. One popular "Hoodia" appetite suppressant sells under the name of Lipodrene. I had the pill independently analysed in London and it turns out to have "no discernible Hoodia" in it. I would be equally careful of trying any other alleged Hoodia pills. Pfizer have sole marketing rights, the clinical trials have three or four years to run so be patient.
Personally, if I don't know for SURE what's in something, I just don't pop it in my mouth on the word of some salesperson on the Internet saying "you'll burn fat!" or what have you, ESPECIALLY since there is NO regulation on this stuff whatsoever. Without a lab test, you have no idea what's really in those pills. What if you have a severe allergic reaction to an ingredient? To me, buying supplements from unknown parties on the Net is just like buying street drugs like meth or crack. You're putting them in your body and you really are going on trust that the website or whatever is telling you the 'truth'. From my years of looking at the diet pill supplement industry, 'truth' may be in shorter supply than the actual Hoodia...they want your money, that's the bottom line.

Fortunately I don't see this happening with Acomplia (the promising appetite supressant/anti-smoking drug which is due to go to the FDA for approval very soon) since it looks as though it's going to be an actual PRESCRIPTION medication and will undergo testing and close scrutiny for safety and effectiveness.
__________________
Mrs. Jim
Highest weight: 265 pounds, size 24/26 (May 1990)
May 1991: 174 pounds (-91 lbs)
September 1996: 155 pounds (-110 lbs)
*LIVING at: 145-149 pounds, size 4/6 (-116/120 lbs)

*Maintenance = LIVING.
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy. Please see your physician before taking advice found on the internet.

Wanna know how I lost the weight and have kept it off for over 16 years? Click here!
MrsJim is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 03:54 PM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3

Default

To say the least is that your skepticism rules your reasoning, did you even look at the photos of the Hoodia gordonii being cultivated before you claimed it might not be Hoodia gordonii? Hmm MrsJim

And as far as I am concerned most of you with your complexes need some Sceletium to calm down and stop sounding like plain nasty ventors.

If you had any botanical experience you would be able to tell that mine is indeed Hoodia gordonii, but I have neither the time nor the patience to try and explain that to you, your skeptic minds would probably twist that to suite your misconceived perceptions too!

This is my last post and as far as I am concerned you guys really need experience before cracking people of! How do you like being called a fatty? Not nice –well the feeling is mutual when you are speaking of something like this where you have no knowledge? And is not the one making an honest buck growing and selling.

To verify purity of Hoodia gordonii pills, simply request an analysis cert, then you would have to be brave enough to try it once you receive the pills and the batch numbers corresponds with the certificate. Use that when trying other peoples stuff, else who knows what you might be getting?

For interests sake below find a list of Hoodia species.

Hoodia albisina

Hoodia annulata

Hoodia bainii

Hoodia barklyi

Hoodia burkei

Hoodia cactiformis

Hoodia coleorum

Hoodia currori

Hoodia delaetiana

Hoodia dinteri

Hoodia dregei

Hoodia duvalli

Hoodia felina

Hoodia flava

Hoodia foetida

Hoodia gibbosa

Hoodia gordonii

Hoodia grandis

Hoodia haagnerae

Hoodia husabensis

Hoodia juttae

Hoodia langii

Hoodia longispina

Hoodia lugardii

Hoodia lutea

Hoodia macrantha

Hoodia marlothii

Hoodia meloformis

Hoodia montana

Hoodia mossamedensis

Hoodia officianis

Hoodia parviflora

Hoodia pedicellata

Hoodia perlata

Hoodia picta

Hoodia pilifera

Hoodia pillansii

Hoodia pretnar

Hoodia rosea

Hoodia ruschii

Hoodia rustica

Hoodia similis

Hoodia sociarum

Hoodia tirasmontana

Hoodia trichneri

Hoodia triebneri

Hoodia vaga

Hoodia whitesloaneana

Now which one were you talking about?
African is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 04:23 PM   #28
Uber-Moderator!!
 
MrsJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 5,024

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
To say the least is that your skepticism rules your reasoning, did you even look at the photos of the Hoodia gordonii being cultivated before you claimed it might not be Hoodia gordonii?
So we're supposed to ASSUME based on your *word* that just because you have photos of hoodia being cultivated that the powder/pills you send them is what they're getting? My skeptical self says yeah, right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
How do you like being called a fatty?
Why should I care? I don't know you, and if you're calling ME personally a fatty, then you sure as heck don't know ME. And I'm sure that all your potential 'customers' who might be reading this will be assured that you only have their best interests (rather than their Visa card limits) at heart (not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
This is my last post...
Bye!
__________________
Mrs. Jim
Highest weight: 265 pounds, size 24/26 (May 1990)
May 1991: 174 pounds (-91 lbs)
September 1996: 155 pounds (-110 lbs)
*LIVING at: 145-149 pounds, size 4/6 (-116/120 lbs)

*Maintenance = LIVING.
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice and no guarantee is made against accuracy. Please see your physician before taking advice found on the internet.

Wanna know how I lost the weight and have kept it off for over 16 years? Click here!
MrsJim is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 04:42 PM   #29
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

I don't think we can respond any better than by providing info directly from the PhytoPharm website, regarding availability, safety, and authenticity of hoodia products from other sources:


Quote:
There are some other products that claim to contain Hoodia. Are they the same as Phytopharm's product?


Only Phytopharm's patented Hoodia gordonii product is botanically verified to contain pure Hoodia gordonii and has quantified levels of the chemical constituents that produce the anti-obesity effects. Importantly, only Phytopharm's Hoodia gordonii product has had extensive safety studies performed and been clinically proven to reduce calorie intake and body fat. The benefit sharing to the CSIR and the San people is only generated by Phytopharm's patented Hoodia gordonii product.


Does Hoodia gordonii have any side effects?
In the clinical study described above the safety data are consistent with a satisfactory overall safety profile, however further scientific studies are required to establish the safety profile of Hoodia gordonii extract. These are currently ongoing at Phytopharm.

When will the product containing the Hoodia gordonii extract be available?
The necessary clinical trials and other studies to ensure the safety of the extract will take a few years before a product will be available.

Hoodia gordonii is rare, is the source sustainable?
Hoodia gordonii is very rare and is protected by national conservation laws in South Africa and Namibia. It can only be collected or grown with a permit. Wild stocks are also extremely limited so Phytopharm has established plantations over the past 5 years to grow sustainable quantities of Hoodia gordonii exclusively for Phytopharm's product. There is a continuing development programme by Phytopharm to ensure sustainable supplies for Phytopharm's product in the future.
I think that says it all.
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Old 12-08-2004, 04:55 PM   #30
it's always something
 
Suzanne 3FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,965

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by African
How do you like being called a fatty? Not nice –well the feeling is mutual when you are speaking of something like this where you have no knowledge? And is not the one making an honest buck growing and selling.
I would like to comment here that we did not seek you out, we did not name your company, and we did not ask you to post here to advertise your products. You came here, advertised your company on our website, even when our rules of registration specifically said no advertising was permitted. We edited your profile to remove the url to your sales website. We edited your posts to remove your product offers. Our normal procedure is to ban advertisers on site, because our rules against advertising are that strict! If we miss them, then our members are usually quick to hit the "report this post" button and let us know. They don't want advertisements here, either. They want information on diet and exercise, and community support through the weight loss journey. Most of our members have said at one point or another that they love it here because it's a safe haven against solicitors.

You wish to insult us simply because we did not allow you to promote your product here. But just remember, you came here, read our forum rules, and you chose to ignore them.

If this is the type of response we are going to receive from this thread, if it just attracts people that want to promote questionable products, then I think it's time to close this thread, and let us get back to losing weight.
__________________
...
Suzanne 3FC is offline  
Closed Thread
Posts by members, moderators and admins are not considered medical advice
and no guarantee is made against accuracy.


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:24 AM.






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2