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any diet supplements proven to help with weight loss? Q&A from Shape

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Old 08-13-2005, 08:48 PM   #31
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What seems so obvious to me is that when they find one of these things that works it will be Headline News 24/7. The company will not have to advertise. People will beat down their door to get it.
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Old 10-01-2005, 05:25 PM   #32
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http://www.obesity-news.com/inuse.htm

Nah, the idea that there are 'no' working weight loss drugs is pure fiction. There may be a shortage of safe, affordable weight loss drugs but even with that there are still some that are shown to work. As a society we are biased against weight loss drugs, considering them a form of cheating. However drugs to cope with mental illness are considered cheating by alot of people too. At the end of the day you have to make your own decision.
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Old 10-01-2005, 05:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by WeighToGo
What seems so obvious to me is that when they find one of these things that works it will be Headline News 24/7. The company will not have to advertise. People will beat down their door to get it.
Nah, I don't personally believe that. Take Tagamet (cimetidine), the acid reflux drug that is OTC. Some studies have shown that it promotes weight loss but they don't know the mechanism. Some feel it cholecystokinin levels.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

That study found 2x the weight loss with intermittent cimetidine usage.

http://pharminfo.8media.org/pubs/msb/cimetidine.html

That study found 5x the weight loss with constant cimetidine usage.

Generic Tagamet is only about $8/month at walmart but how many people do you know who know about these things?
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Old 10-01-2005, 05:47 PM   #34
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I personally don't believe that ANY weight loss drug can be considered truly effective unless it promotes weight loss for everyone who tries it. And even Tylenol doesn't work the same for everyone, so why would a weightloss drug? We're all different. So while some may actually notice weight loss from such drugs, others won't, and all the studies in the world won't change that for them. This is partly why they won't make headline news as well. Because for every person who says they lost weight on some new miracle cure, there is another who says they didn't. So it's word-against-word and still not proven enough for the media to run with it and proclaim it a complete success.
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Old 10-01-2005, 06:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by almostheaven
I personally don't believe that ANY weight loss drug can be considered truly effective unless it promotes weight loss for everyone who tries it. And even Tylenol doesn't work the same for everyone, so why would a weightloss drug? We're all different. So while some may actually notice weight loss from such drugs, others won't, and all the studies in the world won't change that for them. This is partly why they won't make headline news as well. Because for every person who says they lost weight on some new miracle cure, there is another who says they didn't. So it's word-against-word and still not proven enough for the media to run with it and proclaim it a complete success.
There probably are no diet drugs that work equally for everyone, although I'm sure some diet drugs work for at least 90% of people who take them. But there are no drugs in general that work for everyone. You are right, we are all different.

From what I remember from pharmacology class when companies want to determine a 'recommended dosage' of a drug they do a test where they start off giving everyone low doses. Then they increase the dosages to try to find the sweet spot where you get good effects but low side effects for as many people as possible. However there are always people who get a major reaciton from a tiny dose and people who get no reaction unless they take mega doses. The recommended dose falls in between where the majority get good effects and low side effects. This is probably why aspirin comes in 325mg tablets and prozac is 20mg tablets, when they determined the dose that was the median area. But some people get major depression treatment on 5mg and some needed 80mg. And some didn't react at all but got good results on paxil or wellbutrin.

We'd have to throw out pharmacology in general if we wanted everyone to react to a drug. But the studies I listed were among 55-60 people but they showed reasonably uniform responses in placebo vs cimetidine.

Its probably not headline news because nobody knows about it.

Last edited by Juche : 10-01-2005 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:15 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostheaven
I personally don't believe that ANY weight loss drug can be considered truly effective unless it promotes weight loss for everyone who tries it. And even Tylenol doesn't work the same for everyone, so why would a weightloss drug? We're all different. So while some may actually notice weight loss from such drugs, others won't, and all the studies in the world won't change that for them. This is partly why they won't make headline news as well. Because for every person who says they lost weight on some new miracle cure, there is another who says they didn't. So it's word-against-word and still not proven enough for the media to run with it and proclaim it a complete success.
So by the same standards, do you consider Tylenol ineffective? Aspirin? NyQuil? Some people say NyQuil really helps their cold symptoms at night, but it doesn't help me much--I just use it because it helps me sleep when I'm sick (and in the hopes that maybe it really will aleviate some of the headache, stuffy nose, etc.). In general, we do consider most other types of drugs to be effective even if they don't work for 100% of the population, so why should it be different for diet drugs?

I'm really not trying to be a witch here, just playing a bit of devil's advocate and trying to understand I personally feel that there really are some diet pills that can help people get a bit of a jump start to their weight loss when used ALONG WITH a more sensible diet and perhaps some exercise. We all know there's no miracle drug--unfortunately, there is nothing that will allow me to eat my McDonald's and Wendy's and Burger King for 3 meals a day, 7 days a week and still lose weight (or at least not die from a heart attack!)
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Old 10-03-2005, 01:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juche
Nah, the idea that there are 'no' working weight loss drugs is pure fiction. There may be a shortage of safe, affordable weight loss drugs but even with that there are still some that are shown to work. As a society we are biased against weight loss drugs, considering them a form of cheating. However drugs to cope with mental illness are considered cheating by alot of people too. At the end of the day you have to make your own decision.
But this thread is about weight loss supplements, not drugs. Two different things - the supplements that Suzanne was referring to in the initial post on this thread are the ones we've all seen advertised on infomercials, in fitness magazines and so on...supplements which are not regulated, which the FDA has little or no control over...
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:15 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by MrsJim
But this thread is about weight loss supplements, not drugs. Two different things - the supplements that Suzanne was referring to in the initial post on this thread are the ones we've all seen advertised on infomercials, in fitness magazines and so on...supplements which are not regulated, which the FDA has little or no control over...
Yeah, ok. Supplements do stink, I'll agree. I think the only effective one is ephedra and it is too dangerous to be worth it.

Like someone else said, a working diet drug would be a godsend in part just because it would push all the charlatans out of the market. She made a reference to the fact that in the 80s there were tons of quack treatments for baldness, but once real treatments made it to market the quack treatments stopped existing. A working obesity drug that is well known, safe, affordable and easily attainable would get rid of the cortislim con artists who prey on desperate people to rob them of rent and grocery money.
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juche
Like someone else said, a working diet drug would be a godsend in part just because it would push all the charlatans out of the market. She made a reference to the fact that in the 80s there were tons of quack treatments for baldness, but once real treatments made it to market the quack treatments stopped existing. A working obesity drug that is well known, safe, affordable and easily attainable would get rid of the cortislim con artists who prey on desperate people to rob them of rent and grocery money.
That was me, actually...and I stand by those words. So far, however, there doesn't seem to be a 'working' obesity drug or medical treatment that does what prospective users seem to want it to do - dispense with healthy lifestyle changes and allow people to lose weight without making those crucial changes (that includes WLS). Ah well - nothing worth having or achieving comes easy, does it?
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by MrsJim
That was me, actually...and I stand by those words. So far, however, there doesn't seem to be a 'working' obesity drug or medical treatment that does what prospective users seem to want it to do - dispense with healthy lifestyle changes and allow people to lose weight without making those crucial changes (that includes WLS). Ah well - nothing worth having or achieving comes easy, does it?
Well, there are drugs that make diet and exercise more effective, and that improve long term prognosis. Right now long term prognosis seems to be the biggest problem. Virtually everyone who wants to lose weight has done so, but they just can't keep it off. Drugs that improve long term maintenance success rates from their current 1-5% rates to something like 40-50% would be a very welcome method of obesity treatment.

What I'd like to see is a drug that makes moderate lifestyle changes more effective. ie, a drug where all you have to do is eat healthier and exercise and you'll lose weight and keep it off without having to become overly anal about food, become hungry, deprive yourself or obsess over weight, food or exercise. I know some long term maintainers and they only maintain by becoming so intolerant of bodyfat that they are a chore to be around. They are hateful, angry and bitter because that is the only way they know to keep their motivation high enough to keep the weight off. A drug that just lets you eat a healthier diet and maintain the loss would be a godsend.

In the long run people are going to want a drug that lets them lose weight w/o healthier lifestyles. But I think right now most people would be happy with a drug that made reasonable lifestyle changes effective enough to result in permanent weight loss.

Last edited by Juche : 10-04-2005 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 10-04-2005, 12:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Juche
What I'd like to see is a drug that makes moderate lifestyle changes more effective. ie, a drug where all you have to do is eat healthier and exercise and you'll lose weight and keep it off without having to become overly anal about food, become hungry or obsess over weight/food.
Unfortunately, for many people, 'eating healthier and exercising' equates to 'being overly anal about food/weight'. I've had the equivilant of that phrase thrown at me more than once, for things like passing up donuts or pizza at work and because I go to the gym every morning. Personally I don't find my lifestyle changes either obsessive or restrictive - it's what I do - just like brushing my teeth and taking a shower.

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Originally Posted by Juche
I know some long term maintainers and they only maintain by becoming so intolerant of bodyfat that they are a chore to be around. They are hateful, angry and bitter because that is the only way they know to keep their motivation high enough to keep the weight off.
Apparently you haven't checked out our Maintainers Forum here at 3FC. Also, as someone who has maintained a healthy weight for some time now, I can assure you I'm not 'hateful, angry and/or bitter'. In fact, I've said many, many times that a positive attitude is essential to making lifestyle changes that result in successful long-term weight loss. It's been awhile for me, but I do remember quite clearly that when I was obese, I was definitely NOT a happy person - not only am I a much more positive person now, my self-esteem (through my personal accomplishments of losing and maintaining weight, among other accomplishments in my life) is through the roof - and that feeling is PRICELESS.

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Originally Posted by Juche
In the long run people are going to want a drug that lets them lose weight w/o healthier lifestyles.
Again - IMO it sounds as though you're giving the self-esteem factor (through personal accomplishment) short shrift here. And I don't see a weight-loss drug ever providing the health benefits of exercise - which is, as far as I know, the only way to strengthen the heart, lungs, muscles and limbs (while preventing debilitating diseases - including Alzheimer's, according to the latest news). Also interesting to note that all the weight loss drugs currently on the market AND being researched do not, by themselves, enable weight loss as effective and as successful as diet and exercise - many of the drug studies define a 'significant amount of weight lost/maintained' as a mere five pounds.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:51 AM   #42
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I also disagree with the statement: "Virtually everyone who wants to lose weight has done so, but they just can't keep it off. ..." I hear this repeated over and over again online and in the media but I'd have to see a lot more data to prove it to my personal satisfaction. IMO, it's probably more or less true that almost everyone experiences some regain, but people who are dedicated to maintaining tend to take that in stride and consider it part of the ongoing process, in my opinion, and they take action to lose the regain or sometimes they stabilize at a slightly higher weight that is easier to maintain but is STILL not a regain back into obesity.

The only reason I harp on this point is that I believe it's somewhat discouraging to those who want to lose the weight but keep hearing that well it's futile ... but hey, maybe if I could afford these pills for the rest of my life ...

I'd just like everyone to know that in the absence of any specific medical condition that precludes it, there's no reason to feel that we can't take the weight off (no matter how long it takes) and keep it (more or less) off without weight loss medication.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Juche
Well, there are drugs that make diet and exercise more effective, and that improve long term prognosis. Right now long term prognosis seems to be the biggest problem. Virtually everyone who wants to lose weight has done so, but they just can't keep it off. Drugs that improve long term maintenance success rates from their current 1-5% rates to something like 40-50% would be a very welcome method of obesity treatment.
I have been reading along for a while, and am finally voicing my opinions. The reason that people have the ability to lose weight, but not keep it off, has absolutely nothing to do with diet pills or supplements, or prescription medications that don't even exist yet. It is about lifestyle change-period. Everyone can go on a diet and lose some weight-but only those who make permanent lifestyle changes keep the weight off. It isn't about some futuristic prescription medication-it is about changing your eating habits for life, and regular exercise for LIFE.

Really, which would be more healthy-to change your lifestyle to a healthier one permanently, or have scientists come up with a drug for everyone to take for the rest of our lives-that our bodies have to metabolize forever?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Juche
What I'd like to see is a drug that makes moderate lifestyle changes more effective. ie, a drug where all you have to do is eat healthier and exercise and you'll lose weight and keep it off without having to become overly anal about food, become hungry, deprive yourself or obsess over weight, food or exercise.
Moderate lifestyle changes are already effective without some new prescription drug. If you eat healthier and exercise regularly then you will lose weight and keep it off. You don't have to obsess about food and exercise, be hungry all the time, or deprive yourself. The key is moderation. I don't think limiting chocolate to a small piece once a week instead of eating it every day and in a larger portion is depriving myself at all. I don't think exercising daily is obsessing-I fit it into my schedule just like taking a shower, or making an appointment for a haircut. You don't have to be hungry-You can eat low calorie and not be hungry-just choose higher volume foods such as 2 cups of strawberries instead of a slice of bread if you are having issues with hunger. (both around 90 calories) A lot of times this simple trick will keep hunger pangs away. I just don't feel there is a need for some new prescription drug when there are already perfectly natural solutions to these issues that are drug free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juche
I know some long term maintainers and they only maintain by becoming so intolerant of bodyfat that they are a chore to be around. They are hateful, angry and bitter because that is the only way they know to keep their motivation high enough to keep the weight off.
I suggest that you visit the maintainers section of the forum here at 3FC, because there are some wonderful, caring, and supportive women over there. My stepfather is also a former competing bodybuilder, and even though he no longer competes, he still eats healthy and exercises every day. He is one of the most loving and postive people I have ever known-and doesn't have a bitter or hateful bone in his body. It is an unfair assumption to say that all maintainers are bitter, angry, hateful, and are a chore to be around.

What I have noticed in my own weight loss experience though, is the thinner and more fit and healthy I get, the more rude and insensitive others who are still unfit and unhealthy around me get-because I believe that they are jealous of my successes-not because I am angry, hateful, and bitter. I have found that I have "outgrown" a lot of my fat friends, because I no longer have the desire to revolve my life around food and a sedentary lifestyle-and now associate more active and health minded individuals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Juche
A drug that just lets you eat a healthier diet and maintain the loss would be a godsend. In the long run people are going to want a drug that lets them lose weight w/o healthier lifestyles. But I think right now most people would be happy with a drug that made reasonable lifestyle changes effective enough to result in permanent weight loss.
Permanent lifestyle changes are already enough to make reasonable lifestyle changes effective. The reason maintaining a weight loss is so rare, is because people rarely keep up these changes for life-but revert back to their old habits that made them overweight in the first place.

Yes, I agree with you that people in the long run are going to want a drug that lets them lose weight without practicing healthier lifestyles, but what about responsibility for ones self? I made myself fat by being sedentary and overeating, and it is my responsibility to fix that.
When I was a kid I wanted a lot of things, and I am sure glad that my parents didn't always give in. We don't always get what we want handed to us, it is good to have to work for it. It build character.
Besides, even if tht miracle drug were invented, our bodies would still have to metabolize that drug every day, and there would be side effects.

I am 100% for actually preventing and curing health ailments rather than just treating them with drugs if at all possible. My MIL is a prime example of this-she has a bad back, and takes all the prescription medications for it instead of doing what it would take to CURE her back-which would be to lose weight to remove some of the strain on it, and to do the list of exercises given to her by her doctor and physical therapist to actually strengthen and rehabilitiate her abs/back/core to heal the condition. That's just too much work I guess, and taking the pills is easier. She complains about the pain, and takes the pills-but doesn't do anything to actually help the problem-she is only treating the symptoms.
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