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No grains or dairy?

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:01 AM   #1
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I was just wondering if anyone else has done this and I didn't know where else to post. Two of my sons and I have been seeing this doctor who uses a holistic approach to medical issues. There are "supplements" involved but are mostly some sort of vitamin.

Anyway, my middle son (12) has always had digestive issues. He would have BM every 3 or 4 days, which obviously isn't right. My older son started. eating healthier just because he plays a lot of sports and wanted to be healthier. I started because doc says if I don't cook this way then my kids won't eat this way and he's right.

Here it is. We started out slowly eliminating bad foods from our diet. Pop, chips, other junk foods. Well, about 3 weeks ago, the 12 year old was still having problem so the doc said absolutely no more grains or dairy. You get the calcium you need from leafy green veggies and we are allowed to drink almond milk which has a lot of calcium in it. It sounds strange, but once you get used to it, it isn't that hard.

Bottom line is that in that time the 12 year old has lost 10 lbs. and now has a BM every day and sometimes twice a day. My 14 year old only lost 2 lbs. but the kid is 5'8" and weighs 128 to begin with so he doesn't need to lose. I've lost 7 lbs. and feel SO much better.

I was just wondering if anyone else has tried this and how it worked for them. Like I said, it sounds weird, but so far, it seems to be really working.
Sorry this post is so long.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:09 AM   #2
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I haven't had dairy for a couple years and there are many people in the world who don't eat dairy so its not unusual. I do eat some grains though.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #3
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Sounds like he may be allergic to wheat/gluten and dairy. It's not uncommon.

Keep it up!
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:43 PM   #4
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Default Good luck mom with issues

I just bumped a thread called "Reasons to avoid grains" in the support forum. Moderator Nelie was a great source of input in that thread.

I have been looking into a myriad of plans before starting this weight loss project because at age 48 it is obvious I need to find a lifestyle that is healthy and gets the weight off of me. Dieting just hasn't worked. I need a more permanent change. Paleo eating lifestyles cut out grains and most dairy and from everything I've read I think I can pull this off.

My 11 year old is a little chubby and I never considered inflicting my diet on her, but hopefully the changes I am about to make will lead her by example. I confess to being a little leery of the process and I will jump ship for something better if I find it, but this sacrifice of grains and most dairy seems to make sense for me and my past experiences.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:20 PM   #5
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It's all a balancing act in my experience. I naturally cut back in grains and dairy because I was focusing on portion sizes, veggies, fruit, and the right amount of protein. Once starting to really look at what I ate and journalizing I found that my weight had to be linked to the fact that the majority of my food was carb and dairy.
I still eat it to an extent now though, just in much smaller portions. 1/4 cup oatmeal for breakfast (with some other stuff of course), 2 crackers with a wedge of laughing cow cheese, 1 cup soy milk in my shake, and 3 oz. of low fat plain yogurt. (Once you get used to the tanginess, it's awesome.)

If it's working for you and your 12 year old, and the both of you still have lots of energy that you're getting from the other foods you're eating, then great! Doesn't even sound like a "diet", but more of a lifestyle. Very normal for certain people, like me!

btw, I was amazed at what portion sizes were for carbs though. White rice = 1/4 cup cooked, Pasta = 1/2 cup cooked, 1 small potato (as in, small :|) lol
It's easier to do without and find other yummy nutrient-packed foods to get that 100 calories.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:00 PM   #6
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I eat some dairy and some grains, but I have demphasized both in my diet. I eat them too often to say I "avoid" them, so I supose "limit" is a better word - but I don't eat dairy or grains every day. I would say I probably eat each about 3 times a week.

My eating philosphy is fairly close to what Barbara Berkeley refers to as "primarian" in her book Refuse to Regain!: 12 Tough Rules to Maintain the Body You've Earned! (the book is about maintaining a weight loss already accomplished, but I think it's a book for every stage of weight loss. I'd recommend it even to folks who haven't started their weight loss yet).

I've read a lot of the ancestor or "paleolithic" diets, and I think there's something there. Grains and dairy are "new" foods to the human race, and I think that many people don't thrive on the neolithic (agrarian) diet, and I think that no one thrives on the modern diet (processed food).

I'm not a purist (yet). Maybe I never will be. My theory is that I should be eating most of my foods from those that my ancestors would recognize and the further I can go back, the better. Going back to grandma is great, but going back to hunter-gatherer is even better.

I should also be trying to emulate the activity level of my ancestors too (I don't do that yet either. I know I probably will never. I don't see myself ever running marathons - but I might surprise myself, I suppose).
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplods View Post
I'm not a purist (yet). Maybe I never will be. My theory is that I should be eating most of my foods from those that my ancestors would recognize and the further I can go back, the better. Going back to grandma is great, but going back to hunter-gatherer is even better.
You too were an excellent source in the old thread I bumped, so thanks. I too have been immersed in the paleo blog world and the fad-ishness is a bit of a turnoff to me. We ain't cavemen and the available food supply has changed, but I am convinced of the general concepts.

A Christian could point to Adam and Eve's fall from grace being accursed with agriculture and grains... ya know, God's punishments were something like, "women will have pain in birth and man will work the soil." Then God just got sick of the whole mess and brought the flood but told Noah to eat all the animals when the waters subsided. See, the evolution based paleo diet is really the Noah diet for us post flood survivors.

Anyway, the point is the caveman cult clouds the message a little for me, which is really about insulin and how it stores fat, ketones and how they release it, and what foods bring about these biological fuel burning mechanisms. I could care less about the history of the information. I am alive and suffering now, in this modern world. My ancient ancestors would have gobbled down a bag of Hostess donuts every bit as fast as I can.

So, I quoted that paragraph of yours because I hope I never become a paleo purist. The reality of life is that I will enjoy an occasional slice of pizza, but I'm fairly certain that kind of thing can be limited to the rarest of occasions if I continue the education AND see solid healthy results.

I am officially starting on May 1st, btw.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:19 PM   #8
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Deserving of a bump as I am now researching low carbs & auto immune diseases, especially Crohn's.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:31 PM   #9
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There's a bunch of us working away at this here
Oh yes! We'll be Primal in May!

Come and join us.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BibBob View Post
You too were an excellent source in the old thread I bumped, so thanks. I too have been immersed in the paleo blog world and the fad-ishness is a bit of a turnoff to me. We ain't cavemen and the available food supply has changed, but I am convinced of the general concepts.

A Christian could point to Adam and Eve's fall from grace being accursed with agriculture and grains... ya know, God's punishments were something like, "women will have pain in birth and man will work the soil." Then God just got sick of the whole mess and brought the flood but told Noah to eat all the animals when the waters subsided. See, the evolution based paleo diet is really the Noah diet for us post flood survivors.

Anyway, the point is the caveman cult clouds the message a little for me, which is really about insulin and how it stores fat, ketones and how they release it, and what foods bring about these biological fuel burning mechanisms. I could care less about the history of the information. I am alive and suffering now, in this modern world. My ancient ancestors would have gobbled down a bag of Hostess donuts every bit as fast as I can.

So, I quoted that paragraph of yours because I hope I never become a paleo purist. The reality of life is that I will enjoy an occasional slice of pizza, but I'm fairly certain that kind of thing can be limited to the rarest of occasions if I continue the education AND see solid healthy results.

I am officially starting on May 1st, btw.


I have to say that I found the paleo books more useful than the paleo blogs. If you understand the science (or even just research methodology), what you'll find even more helpful (at least I did) are the original research articles that the book authors site.

Scientists are hesitant to overreach their conclusions, so I've found that the less science behind the source, the more likely the material deteriorates into not just pseudo-science and even "magical-thinking."

When it comes to diet (for weight loss and health), I'm extremely wary of the theories that push an agenda of "one tiny mistep and you're doomed." Yes, if you have a severe allergy or severe celiac disease, even a trace of wheat can do serious harm to your body, but I suspect (at least at this point) that our systems aren't that sensitive.

I see the human diet more practically (sort of like zoo keepers do). Zoos do take into account the animals' native diets, but they make adaptations based on the foods they have available to them. Zoos are having to recalculate and update feeding formulas because of the ever-changing food supply (even animals are being affected by the "modernization" of crops).

I think there are things to be learned from nutritional anthropology, but at best we're going to be able to duplicate some aspects of the paleo diet & lifestyle, not perfectly replicate it (and hopefully we'll pick the variables that matter). To be sure, they'll all need to be tested to see if they produce the hoped-for results. This is where I think the magical-thinking comes in. What do we need to duplicate? How closely do we have to duplicate? For aspects of the diet and lifestyle that we can't or won't duplicate (such as insect-eating in the USA) how do we imitate or substitute for what we're missing (if we find that the missing part matters). For example some paleo plans recommend some dairy, because we're not eating insects and bones for calcium.

At this point, the theories are interesting, but all mostly untested.

I have faith that future generations will eventually figure all this stuff out (if as a culture, we remain committed to scientific inquiry). However, that doesn't help us here and now all that much. We don't have the answers that still have to be asked.

For now, I'm stuck trying to be both scientist AND lab rat. It's not the ideal situation. I feel like Frankenstein (or more accurately, I suppose Dr. Jekyl as I'm experimenting on myself). I can't do double-blind studies on myself, so my experiments are of limited use to anyone but me (and even of limited use TO me). It's bad science. I'm just guessing here, and I can't rule out bias effects. At best the results are valid only to me, and at worst I may be engaging in superstitious behavior, because I "think" I have reached valid conclusions for my sample of one.
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:45 PM   #11
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Great post Kap. I have been pouring through the cited information, but it's hard for me -- a little out of my league. I'm reading GCBC. And I am now trying this lifestyle. The first day was fine.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:30 AM   #12
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Yeah, it's out of my league too. I took research methodology classes, but that was 15 years ago. I never worked in research (in fact, I opted out of thesis so I wouldn't have to), and since I never planned to work in research, I payed only as much attention as I had to. Which means I have just enough knowledge to THINK I know something (as they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing).

Still, it's amazing what I have experienced already, like the drastic improvement in my autoimmune symtoms when I drastically reduced grain intake. It's hard for me to disbelieve the theory in light of my personal evidence (though I know one person's experience isn't enough to "prove" anything, it sure seems to prove something to me). That I had a mild partial relapse around the holidays (when I ate quite a few of my mother's homemade grain and sugar goodies), sure makes it seem even less likely that I'm mistaken, though I can't discount the possibility of bias errors. Maybe it's just placebo effect (though with everything I've tried, it seems unlikely that placebo effect would only NOW kick in).

I'm now at the point where I'm feeling I understand just enough to feel there are books I want to buy and keep for reference. Today I received the book The Low-Carb Bible by Elizabeth Ward (it's a book I've been recommending ever since I first checked it out of my local library. I've checked it out a couple times since, and finally decided I needed to buy it. The book compares and reviews 9 low-carb plans: Atkins, Carbohydrate Addicts, Neanderthin, Protein Power, Schwarzbein Principle, South Beach, Sugar Busters, Suzanne Somers, and the Zone).

I'd love to own NeanderThin, but not at the prices I've been able to find it ($45 to $99).

I've heard such good things about Primal Blueprint that I've put it at the top of my "too buy" list, even though I haven't read it (usually I borrow a book from the library before even considering buying it, but I just got word yesterday that I wouldn't be able to get it through Interlibrary loan because it was "too popular." When I described the book, our librarian offered to put it on their "purchase list" and me at the top of the wait list (which is great, and I agreed, but I'm thinking I'll probably be buying it before the library gets it in and checked into the system).

You know, I've put a lot more effort into studying nutrition and weight loss than I did in my chosen field (master's degree in developmental psychology). With all the information, you'd think I would have mastered this by now. (I've been dieting more often than not since I was 5 years old - and it turns out the only diet I never seriously considered is the only one that I've ever had success with, and hunger-control, and that's low-carb).

I've thought of it as "unhealthy" for so long, that I still have a hard time wrapping my head around this. Old habits and sterotypes die hard (especially when you thought they were based on hard, tangible science). Eating more fat and having all my blood lipid profiles improving doesn't seem possible to me (though my doctor says we can't argue with the results. Even though the weight is coming off slowly, my bloodwork has been improving much more consistently).

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble on and on. I tend to overanalyze things instead of just jumping in to trial and error. With funded research that would be a good thing, but when dealing with my own experiment of one, I think I overthink things before I commit to action.
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Old 05-02-2010, 06:58 PM   #13
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Wow. I really appreciate all of the info. My family and I don't feel like we're doing a diet as much as we are changing our lifestyle (although sometimes it is hard). I have lost 10 pounds in the last 3 weeks so I'm happy. The reason we avoid grains is that doc says that the soil has been harmed by all of the chemical pestisides used, which makes sense to me. We are allowed 2 "cheat meals" a week, but have usually chosen not to take them. Like I said, sometimes it's hard, but I know that I CAN have these things I crave (sweets, junk food, etc.) but I CHOOSE not to. That sort of makes it easier. I have also found almond milk which is not dairy, but is very good. We use that to make fruit smoothies which is a great substitute for ice cream in the evening.

Anyway, we're still working it and it seems to be working for us. So, I guess that's reason enough to stay with it for now. We'll see how long I can go before I break down. Ha ha. But, seriously, thanks to all who have given so much info. It truly helps understand and live with the changes.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:28 PM   #14
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I've had several chiropractors/holistic doctors tell me to give up grains. My current chiro wants me to give up all carb type foods for three months. Nothing but meat, nuts, eggs, vegetables and butter. No fruit, beans, potatoes, etc. But with having morning sickness I can really do it right now and he understands. It would be nice if my second trimester brings less nausea and I can try to ease into the diet but it may have to wait.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:00 AM   #15
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Landons - Have you asked your obstetrician/midwife about that? I mean I think we experiment with our bodies and generally don't have long term effects from short term experiments but being pregnant brings something else into the mix. The diet of of 'meat, nuts, eggs, vegetables and butter' sounds like something a pregnant mother shouldn't be following. And do you have restrictions on the vegetables?
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