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IE - Sadness and letting go of diets

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Old 03-09-2014, 10:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827 View Post
I did do IE years ago, but included all foods. For me, I just cannot IE with things like bread, rice, pasta, bagels etc. Nor with treats or sweets. I was not losing weight and truthfully I was not happy being fat. ...

I think when people say a diet made their hungry go away, they are referring to eating the right foods to control appetite. For me, not eating sugar, carbs like bread/pasta, or processed foods, means that my hunger is well controlled. I am not hungry every 2-3 hours anymore. So I can IE and not eat all the time. When I practiced IE without having my hunger under control, I *was* hungry, but too often, so that IE meant I was eating too much. I realized that its not that I had to deny myself food when I was hungry but find a way to eat that didn't leave me hungry so frequently. I also notice that exercise/running keeps my appetite controlled. I know most people are more hungry after a workout, but I for some reason, feel loss of appetite after working out.

So I basically can eat whenever I am hungry and still lose weight. I'm technically following a diet (whole foods, no trigger foods) but I don't feel deprived.

Maybe something similar would be helpful for you. Once you find what works, that's half the battle.
I'm at odds between truly doing IE and doing something of this nature. Not allowing a whole category of foods qualifies as dieting to me, it's a type of restriction that has ultimately led to binges. It's tempting nonetheless. The whole purpose of doing this is quite different than what you're doing. I'm not trying to control my hunger, I'm trying to observe it, let it happen and ultimately satisfy it. I'm not saying that what you're doing is wrong, it's just not IE.

The biggest aspect at the moment is learning to absolve myself of the sin of eating. I have moments where I overeat but I'm not letting myself feel guilty about it. It's just the way it has to be for the moment, it may result in some weight gain and although I'm not happy about it I'm also not going to hate myself for it. More and more as I do this I'm finding that those "trigger foods" that I thought made me crazy are actually not that enjoyable. In time I will reduce those foods but not because I want to be thin but because I don't really like them as much as I thought I did.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth

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Old 03-09-2014, 10:13 AM   #32
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I personally do a mixture of IE and diet, well sort of. I don't keep certain foods in my house at all. That isn't to say I don't eat them when I am at a party or restaurant but at home where I do my binge eating I just don't keep things I will binge eat with. This helps because I will rarely binge eat in front of people.

My home is pretty grain and cheese free most the time. Hopefully, I will gain the mental strength to have it in my house and not binge eat but right now I don't.

But I stopped obsessively counting calories. I still look at the calories on the box but I don't count them out and put them in baggies like I use to. I also don't ask for calories at restaurants or tell them to remove the cheese or anything like that because of I am paying money for meal I sure as **** going to enjoy it!
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:57 AM   #33
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For me it helps to detox from overheating with at least a period of careful eating, now I know the book says that doesn't work but I think there is the advantage to get you off sweets and carbs and let your body be ready to enjoy good food. In that time you feel so much better and sort of get rid of the bloating.

I think IE is really really helpful once you have essentially set some decent healthy habits and want to retain the sustainable parts of them. So for me that means a focus on lots of great fruits and vegetables, lean proteins, healthy grains, and letting the other stuff enter intuitively. But then I don't really have any ridiculous sugar obsessions. When I'm overeating it is soothing myself with a lot of crunchy carbs and rebellious eating knowing the food party will be over soon.

When other diets get you frustrated, IE lets you settle in and establish ongoing sustainability and let your weight eventually get to a healthy point and no real change.

But then there is the acceptance of that body weight and for me a real fashionista who loves pretty clothes and pays attention to runway shows and trends it is difficult to not care about that end weight, I mean those gorgeous fit celebrities don't stop where IE lands then do they? But that's a subject for a whole other thread I think. I tend to be within 15 pounds of a healthy weight so it's not the same issue at all with those further away and I sure understand that.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny View Post
I'm at odds between truly doing IE and doing something of this nature. Not allowing a whole category of foods qualifies as dieting to me, it's a type of restriction that has ultimately led to binges. It's tempting nonetheless.
I completely avoid sugar 99% of the time because it leads to cravings which then lead to binges. Without sugar, "restricting" or avoiding foods does not lead to a binge for me. However I am also careful about carbs, but many people eat oatmeal, quinoa, rice...whole food grains. I limit them because I tend to over eat with them, and they do not control my appetite. If I do eat fruit, I also make sure to pair it with protein.
But do not think of it as eliminating a whole category of food, I think if it as eating it responsibly. Unless you are referring to sugar, junk food etc. I just don't keep anything like that in my house. Its a treat, like soda. We do not buy soda. My kids have never even tried it. But occasionally I will treat myself to a soda if we eat out, and sometimes I'll opt for water.



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Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny View Post
The whole purpose of doing this is quite different than what you're doing. I'm not trying to control my hunger, I'm trying to observe it, let it happen and ultimately satisfy it. I'm not saying that what you're doing is wrong, it's just not IE.
This is good if you can do this. I tried, but I could not accomplish this. For what ever reason, maybe because I was raised to stuff my face, maybe because I have spent over 15 years starving and binging, I don't know ,but it was like my internal regulator could not regulate certain foods. I cannot IE with processed foods, sweets, junk food, even pastas, potatoes etc.
At the same time, I don't understand why you would not want to control your hunger. The control I'm talking about has to do with health, not dieting.

If I get hungry and eat a candy bar because I really want it, it will do nothing for me nutritionally. It will cause my blood sugar to go up up up, then fall, leaving me hungry in an hour or so. Rather if I choose to eat maybe some cheese and nuts, plain greek yogurt and an apple, a piece of chicken and some carrots....my internal self would rather eat the candy bar, but I know if I choose one of the other options, I will stay satisfied longer and control my hunger. They also offer more nutritionally. Try not to think of controlling hunger like dieting tips, you know, how they tell you to drink water before eating, or to put down your fork between each bite...I'm talking about controlling hunger by feeding your body healthy, whole, nutritious foods, in a combo of protein , fat (and carbs if you include them).


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Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny View Post
The biggest aspect at the moment is learning to absolve myself of the sin of eating. I have moments where I overeat but I'm not letting myself feel guilty about it. It's just the way it has to be for the moment, it may result in some weight gain and although I'm not happy about it I'm also not going to hate myself for it. More and more as I do this I'm finding that those "trigger foods" that I thought made me crazy are actually not that enjoyable. In time I will reduce those foods but not because I want to be thin but because I don't really like them as much as I thought I did.
It important to know what is motivating you and what you want to "gain" from this. For some people, it seems weight loss is literally just about losing weight. However it seems for more people there is something else to work through.
Letting go of the guilt is hard. I struggle with it everyday. I feel guilt attached to certain foods, certain food combinations,I feel guild sometimes for just eating. I do not want to be thin either. I did, but when I started running, I no longer wanted to be thin, but I wanted to be strong and fit. I don't want to have extra weight or any of the problems that come with it. Focusing on being fit, helps me to view food as fuel rather than my enemy. I'm eating to reach a goal, rather than NOT eating to reach a goal (dieting) which was a destructive mentality for me. This mind set means, if I'm hungry, I can eat whenever I want, but I only want to put healthy whole foods in my body. I don't want to eat junk, I don't want to eat processed food. But I don't make it off limits, but something I can have as a treat.

Its hard to explain, but it works for me.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:14 AM   #35
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I just stumbled across this and thought I'd share it in this thread, since it's about letting go of diets.

The Anti-Diet Project
http://www.refinery29.com/the-anti-diet-project

Looks like she started this project in November of last year (scroll to the bottom of the page to find her first post).

I can relate to so much of what this young woman is writing. I suspect others can as well.

I will also share it on the IE thread but wanted to post it here since it seems appropriate for the thread.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827 View Post
I don't understand why you would not want to control your hunger. The control I'm talking about has to do with health, not dieting.

If I get hungry and eat a candy bar because I really want it, it will do nothing for me nutritionally. It will cause my blood sugar to go up up up, then fall, leaving me hungry in an hour or so. Rather if I choose to eat maybe some cheese and nuts, plain greek yogurt and an apple, a piece of chicken and some carrots....my internal self would rather eat the candy bar, but I know if I choose one of the other options, I will stay satisfied longer and control my hunger. They also offer more nutritionally. Try not to think of controlling hunger like dieting tips, you know, how they tell you to drink water before eating, or to put down your fork between each bite...I'm talking about controlling hunger by feeding your body healthy, whole, nutritious foods, in a combo of protein , fat (and carbs if you include them).

It important to know what is motivating you and what you want to "gain" from this.
Thanks for participating in this discussion, it's important for me to clarify that I only wish to change myself and no one else in particular so the things I write about pertain to me and don't mean to sway, judge or criticize anyone else, especially when you found something that works for you. But the question about hunger is particularly interesting to me, I've been thinking about hunger a lot for a long time. As a life long dieter I know a lot about how food affects one's body. I did low carb, no carb, calorie counting, restrictive eating, etc for a long time and I researched. It. To. Death. I've learned about how combining this food with this food and spacing meals kept my hunger under control. Control is the key aspect to this, I treated my hunger as if it was a wild caged animal that needed to be carefully guarded when released for its short exercise around the grounds. Don't give it too much of this or it will demand more, feed it at regular intervals so that it doesn't snarl at you, or keep it waiting longer for punishment, put it to bed hungry so that it sleeps it off etc. It's just been a constant battle, being afraid of my own hunger is like be being afraid of my own shadow. It's there, we all know it's there, let's embrace it I say.

I've spent too long trying to control this hunger, treating it like a beast when in truth it exists to HELP ME. It's there for me, it wants to take care of me, to alert me to my body's needs! And here I went throwing it into a pile of negative emotions like anxiety and sadness... come to think of it all those exist for a reason too and it's about time I've learned how to deal with all of these things in an adult manner.

I enjoy very good food, I am very well aware of what foods made me feel energetic and what foods make me feel lethargic. But the foods I eat must nourish me not only physically, but mentally as well. I need to be satisfied. And as long as I keep that candy bar out of reach, in a jail cell marked as "BAD FOOD" then it has a power over me that it does not deserve. Eat it, it's a candy bar, it's a combination of peanuts and chocolate and caramel. Once it's gone, it's gone and the next thing I'll want is probably some avocado.

You're right, everyone has their own goals here, weight loss is definitely a goal. But more than anything I want to have a good relationship with food, I want to be around food and not feel like a deprived maniac. I want to eat it when I want it and release its power over me. And most of all I want to be rid of food guilt, I have nothing to be ashamed of for wanting to eat a bagel, nothing at all.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth

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Old 03-11-2014, 01:56 PM   #37
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Its important no matter what you do, that you have peace in your life and choices. Personally, I do not feel good or at peace about giving in to that candy bar daily, or even weekly. It leaves me feeling like a spoiled child that must have what it wants and now. The same way I don't allow myself to stay up late every night watching tv, or how I force myself to workout on days I'd rather not, or how I have to clean when I've rather be playing online or reading a book! lol I'm not perfect, and I don't always do what I'm supposed to, and sometimes I do let myself stay up late to watch a good show...but I wouldn't feel good, strong, disciplined, and responsible if I just allowed myself to do as I feel all the time.
I guess I see IE as a sense of internal anarchy. I did try it, but it felt like the way a child would feed themselves if there were no mother. Sometimes my kids will choose an apple, but more often they want to candy bar. I think most adults, even thin, fit, healthy ones will tell you, that candy bar tastes great! All that sugar is wonderful and evolutionarily speaking, we crave sugar and fat. Those valuable calories, when we needed to hunt our food and might not eat daily. But food is everywhere now, and I believe the IE is still being driven by those evolutionary adaptations. For me, I will never be at peace fat. I've been fit and healthy, before this pregnancy. It was the most amazing feeling. I loved my body. I think eating a candy bar when I want it, is not worth staying fat for me. However, never having candy again might make me crazy, so never putting junk in my body again is not worth feeling crazy...I suppose its a gentle balance, and you have to decide what is the right point between being able to eat what you want when you want it and being ok with your weight.

I will weigh in on fear of hunger on the other thread that was started.
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2010- 220 lbs to 145 lbs after baby #2
2013 - 215 lbs to 157 lbs after baby #3

Pregnancy Goal: Stay under 200 lbs

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Old 03-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by GlamourGirl827 View Post
Personally, I do not feel good or at peace about giving in to that candy bar daily, or even weekly. It leaves me feeling like a spoiled child that must have what it wants and now. The same way I don't allow myself to stay up late every night watching tv, or how I force myself to workout on days I'd rather not, or how I have to clean when I've rather be playing online or reading a book! lol I'm not perfect, and I don't always do what I'm supposed to, and sometimes I do let myself stay up late to watch a good show...but I wouldn't feel good, strong, disciplined, and responsible if I just allowed myself to do as I feel all the time.
I guess I see IE as a sense of internal anarchy. I did try it, but it felt like the way a child would feed themselves if there were no mother. Sometimes my kids will choose an apple, but more often they want to candy bar. I think most adults, even thin, fit, healthy ones will tell you, that candy bar tastes great! All that sugar is wonderful and evolutionarily speaking, we crave sugar and fat. Those valuable calories, when we needed to hunt our food and might not eat daily. But food is everywhere now, and I believe the IE is still being driven by those evolutionary adaptations. For me, I will never be at peace fat. I've been fit and healthy, before this pregnancy. It was the most amazing feeling. I loved my body. I think eating a candy bar when I want it, is not worth staying fat for me. However, never having candy again might make me crazy, so never putting junk in my body again is not worth feeling crazy...I suppose its a gentle balance, and you have to decide what is the right point between being able to eat what you want when you want it and being ok with your weight.

I will weigh in on fear of hunger on the other thread that was started.
It's interesting how one method can make someone feel so good and make another person feel so horrible all at the same time. It has the complete opposite effect on me, I finally feel like I'm treating myself like an adult and allowing myself to choose the foods that I want to eat. DIETS make me feel like a child, and a failure. They make me give up all control and instruct me on when to eat, how to eat, and what to eat. They also banish foods I like. Some people can function with this sort of abuse, I cannot and here I thought I was the failure. Statistics show that diets don't work (don't ask me for proof of that, I don't care to research it). Even here it's easy to, how many posts do we see daily from people who lost weight on a restrictive diet and then something happened and they gained it back? "I used to be so good, and now I'm so bad!" Going up and down in weight over the years is the proof that diets don't work.

This total anarchy you mentioned, I finally realize now that I'm much more mentally and emotionally at peace. I don't need to be controlled by some societal criteria on how to lose weight, I don't need to be judged by myself or others on what i eat. I need food for only 2 things. And everything I eat must meet these 2 criteria:

- nourishment
- pleasure

When both of these needs are met I feel great. I do not need to eat salads and steamed veggies to feel self righteous, responsible, adult, or in control. I need to eat them before they are delicious and they make me feel energized. By the same token, eating pancakes does not have to make me feel weak, lethargic, irresponsible, childish, or out of control. Pancakes are just food, they have no power to lessen my character or make me a bad person.

The topic of this thread is on a turnaround for me. I'm not feeling that sense of sadness anymore. And I don't miss that Sunday night rush of guilt for my weekly sins that needs to be punished and put right on Monday morning.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:36 PM   #39
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I think it's important to remember that in the book Intuitive Eating the authors considered the "let yourself eat whatever you want" to be a necessary but temporary phase. It serves to reinforce the idea that those former foods that you didn't allow yourself are now always available. I've been in that phase for the past 10 days- I've been eating candy, cookies, bagels, bread, cheese- whatever I want.

I've found that I've eaten a lot less than I actually thought I would- I haven't binged at all since I've been eating these foods and only overeaten a few times. I've also found myself losing interest in them. I know they are there if I want them. Foods have begun to lose their emotional power over me- I eat for the feeling foods give my body rather than the emotional feelings they give me. In this way fruit will beat chocolate every time- my body feels light and alive when I eat healthy.

The authors state again and again in the book that they are nutritionists- ultimately they don't want you to eat bacon, chocolate, and cookies as dietary staples. Remember that IE is a process that has multiple phases. In order to make peace with food completely you have to allow yourself to eat whatever you want. The goal, however, is for you to respect your body's needs by feeding it healthy food.

The addiction model can be a helpful one when you're trying to stay away from binge eating but I've found that it's not particularly helpful for me and my ED. Labeling things as "triggers" just imbues them with special powers. The more that I push them away the more that I am magnetically drawn back to them. Addiction treatment, imho, is still in the dark ages. Alcoholics and addicts have TERRIBLE recovery rates. The addiction model doesn't seem to work for addictions, why should I believe that it will work for eating disorders?
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:42 PM   #40
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I'm new to this site, and want you to know that Intuitive Eating DOES WORK! I made it all the way to size 2/4 and if I can do it, starting from deeply depressed and wildly scattered, I know you can too! One thing to remember is that a feeling won't last by itself if you don't keep adding to the story line, repeating a negative thought to yourself, or avoiding it with food, etc. Instead of fighting it, just let it be. It will fade, and then maybe arise again, but if you can just let it flow through you, it will lose its power.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:17 PM   #41
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Eatingisok (great name!) welcome and thanks for your input it's great to see someone who has succeeded with this! Please tell us more about what you mean about feelings
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