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An approach that might stop binging and keep you in control? Perhaps

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Old 02-12-2014, 03:26 PM   #61
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What bugs me most about the carb wars is not the science or the research. Because I totally get it, if I have a cereal for breakfast I'm famished shortly after as opposed to eating a bit of protein. The difference is obvious to me so I have no problem when someone wants to raise awareness about empty carbs. But what upsets me is the magnitude of importance we put on alleviating hunger. That has been upsetting me for a while, long before I decided to do IE. I was sick of being afraid of hunger. I get angry every time someone tries to make me believe that this diet will keep hunger to a minimum or that diet will get rid of cravings. Every diet attacks hunger as if its the problem, it's not the problem. The problem is what we do when we do when we get hungry, how we punish ourselves with hunger and how scared we are of it. I'm sick of the whole dieting mentality. I don't want to be the girl who looks great because I'm low far or low carb or vegan. Zero interest. I want to be the girl that can eat anything she wants and not have to worry about what food is doing to me or god forbid afraid of hunger. I want to be a normal person, I have no interest in being a successful dieter. I want to enjoy my food. Because when it comes to diets I've found out the hard way that the ONLY reasons I binge is because of stress and food restriction. I've taken away the restrictions and no more binging. I'm working on stress management and no more binging. And in eating more carbs now than I have ever allowed myself.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:45 PM   #62
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Krampus,

Agreed. I admitting those people. I am admitting what is real to you. I've yet to see you admit that many people struggle with sugar/carbs.

Mark Bittman had an op-ed. He said in a locked down environment where people were forced they could lose weight regardless of source. In the real world, without lock down, if people don't take into account that a calorie is not a a calorie to them, they are making weight loss success that much harder. Now it is going to vary from person to person. But saying a calorie is a calorie is just going to impede progress for many.

Take me. I used to be able to go through 2,000 to 3,000 calories in all you can eat french fries places without blinking. I like the taste of spinach but if you asked me to go through 2,000 calories of spinach at a sitting and even offered me a $1,000 I could not do it.

Calories are not the same in the real world for what people want to actually accomplish. Source matters very much. Ironically throughout this whole process I never counted calories. I rarely even look at labels now because most of my stuff doesn't have labels. But with cutting out wheat and most grains and limiting potatoes and running and more veggies, my appetite has just regulated itself. Not focusing on weight loss right now per se., just keeping up the exercise and the way of eating and the weight loss is happening. Obviously I am interested in tracking it though.

So I get you and JohnP are correct about calories as energy. If your strapped me down and fed me a few twinkies a day I might survive for awhile and lose weight. But once I was unstrapped my metabolism would be way off and my hunger would probably be insane. I am more interested in health and how to get there in the real world with my particular metabolism.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:58 PM   #63
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The old saw that a calorie is a calorie is a myth that is not supported by science. Bodies are complex systems that do not follow simple, mechanistic models. To say that IF you restrict calories you will lose weight is about as useful in real time as a TV weather report--entertaining, end of story.

The variables that go into whether you CAN follow a diet & how your metabolism adapts is far more complex & fraught with individual variation than can be fit into a proverb.

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Old 02-12-2014, 04:36 PM   #64
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Krampus,

Agreed. I admitting those people. I am admitting what is real to you. I've yet to see you admit that many people struggle with sugar/carbs.
.
Why is it so important to you that someone validates your approach? You haven't for a moment validated what works for me and it doesn't bother me at all. I know it's working because it's obvious it's working, I don't need anyone to congratulate me or change what they are doing in order for me to keep doing what works. I don't see anyone here changing their mind about anything because nobody ever thinks they're wrong. I really can't give you the validation you're looking for because I don't truly believe that food is at fault for my weight. Or for anyone else for that matter.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:37 PM   #65
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If you starve someone on an all-carb diet that person will still lose weight. And no one is disputing that macronutrient ratios affect energy levels, satiety, clarity of thinking etc. Macros matter for most people but some people function OK with a lot of carbs including grains and sugars, especially people who are highly active - athletes, construction workers, hikers, and the like.

Exactly. Complex carbs can be especially needed by the very physically active
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:44 PM   #66
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This is exactly why I try to stay out of these threads.

I don't see anyone arguing that a calorie is a calorie.

I don't see anyone arguing that we're robots and different macornutrients don't have an affect on saiety or energy levels.

In fact, if you take off your low carb glasses for just a second and read my post you'll see that we probably agree with one another.

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The question is what is the easiest way to restict them and how do different types of food affect your energy level. (Input and output) This is variable to the individual but for most people low carb is the way to go.

I always reccomend people try low carb first because for most people that is going to be the easiest way to restrict calories...
To take it a step further, macronutrients do make a difference for me so why you think they don't is surprising to me. How I operate maintaining is way different than the approach I took when I was losing weight, and the approach I took then varied with exactly what I was trying to accomplish but when I was only trying to lose fat, as fast as possible, I was very low carb and very low calorie.

The only reason I posted here in the first place was the same reason I post on this board at all. Facts are facts and I believe people should know the truth. The truth is that you don't lose fat because you restrict your carbs and if you read enough on the low carb forums you'll see just how true this is both with people who are not losing weight on low carb diets and people who purposefully overeat to show that they are not gaining as much weight as they should when they are purposefully overeating trying to make a point (in a pointless way because n=1 is irrelevant.)
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:57 PM   #67
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JohnP,

I read that but then I thought you were arguing the most important take away is a calorie is a calorie. That could be very counterproductive if the rest of the story is not brought out.

Ironically Dr. Lustig's motto is one of your favorites' portion is poison or something like that. Anything can be unhealthy.

Getting rid of bread and pasta and most grains overall and potatoes overall reset my hunger A LOT. Allowing me then to succeed. I haven't counted calories or carbs.

I just am eating way more whole foods, less processed foods, limited the above things, more veggies, and running.

I could never get calories under control when I had bread and pasta and potatoes because I was hungry all the time.

So yes, of course, number of calories is important, very important. Regardless of source.

And you would think the following is obvious but it wasn't to me for many decades. Or at least I didn't act like it was.

Say I have 400 cal salmon for lunch and 200 cal potato chips. Or I have 400 cal salmon and 200 cal brociolli. If I have the chips I get hungry in 2 hours and have a candy bar. Then I am really hungry by dinner and eat more and crave starches. Then that leads to a late night snack.

Both lunches were 600 calories but vastly different consequences. That message can get lost if we just say a calorie is a calorie.

I focus on carbs/sugars because that is what Americans have increased by and large during obesity crisis. Per capita fat has gone down. I even think meat consumption has gone down. For me it was the thing to concentrate on but I also don't think I am unique.

300 grams of carbs a day, the recommendation, I believe works out to a cup and half of sugar a week. That is what Americans are recommended to consume.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:23 PM   #68
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JohnP,



Say I have 400 cal salmon for lunch and 200 cal potato chips. Or I have 400 cal salmon and 200 cal brociolli. If I have the chips I get hungry in 2 hours and have a candy bar. Then I am really hungry by dinner and eat more and crave starches. Then that leads to a late night snack.

Both lunches were 600 calories but vastly different consequences. That message can get lost if we just say a calorie is a calorie.

I focus on carbs/sugars because that is what Americans have increased by and large during obesity crisis. Per capita fat has gone down. I even think meat consumption has gone down. For me it was the thing to concentrate on but I also don't think I am unique.

300 grams of carbs a day, the recommendation, I believe works out to a cup and half of sugar a week. That is what Americans are recommended to consume.
i DO agree with you that lowered carb consumption for most people in the way of processed foods IS probably the healthiest way to go and would possibly facilitate easier weight loss but i have to agree in some ways with wannabeskinny. I think the problem AT LEAST FOR ME doesn't lie with food, it's MY relationship with food and hunger. See.. i could still consume the candy bar and go on a binge after i ate the healthy salmon and broccoli, i love BOTH of them. And i don't know if my relatively lower carb consumption that i do 6 days a week is helping me feel less hunger and thus not overeat--i simply CHOOSE not to and i also have learned not to fear hunger anymore-self control is far more empowering.
i only WISH my cleaner, lower carb way of eating 6 days a week has solved everything for me. It MAY VERY WELL for the majority of people but it hasn't for me, it's just a plan that i've come up with that i think is healthier (and i save my carb rich and no holds barred free day for friday and i still lost 100 lbs and kept it off) and that i manage easier if this at all makes sense. This isn't to be argumentative, it's just my POV FWIW
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:07 PM   #69
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And thats fine. Not denying anyone's reality. For me I could have been the Dali Lama of food. Best, healthiest relationship on the planet. But if I had kept breads, pasta, and potatoes in my diet I still would have been hungry all the time and overeat. The foods I chose had a physical reaction of keeping me hungry all the time.

When I cut them down and out in some cases, I still have some potatoes, my hunger went way down. I simply don't get hungry anymore. Or at least not the intense 2 hours after a big meal I can't stop myself hunger. I assume my hunger level now is 'normal' or 'healthy' level.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:20 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by diamondgeog View Post
Say I have 400 cal salmon for lunch and 200 cal potato chips. Or I have 400 cal salmon and 200 cal brociolli. If I have the chips I get hungry in 2 hours and have a candy bar. Then I am really hungry by dinner and eat more and crave starches. Then that leads to a late night snack.

Both lunches were 600 calories but vastly different consequences. That message can get lost if we just say a calorie is a calorie.
Well, you will certainly feel fuller on 200 cal broccoli than 200 cal potato chips.

200 cal broccoli is a lot of broccoli compared to what, less than a handful of chips?

ETA: Wanted to add, I agree with you in principle (as all of us are agreeing with each other) that a low carb diet can certainly work for many people as an approach to stop bingeing and to keep appetite in control. That is your title and the message you are trying to get across, yes?

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Old 02-12-2014, 08:15 PM   #71
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I had been there for decades. Why am I hungry all the time? Why can't I stop eating? What is wrong with ME?

I was determined to succeed this time because my daughter is 3 and I am 48. It wasn't just about me this time. So I decided to get all the science I could this time. I also read Huffington Post success stories. A LOT of them mentioned lowering carbs.

So I looked into it and found out more about glycemic index. And I was shocked how high whole wheat was. I found out about Ancel Keys. I found out about people turning their bodies into fat storing machines and making weight loss virtually impossible until they changed their foods. Cutting calories just did not work.

So 'will power' hadn't worked before so I tried science. I took seriously reducing sugars and carbs except from non starchy veggies and fruits.

And I had 10 times the success at a fraction of the previous efforts. So I simply wanted to share the premise that for some people, eliminating some foods or drastically cutting back on them can really help success. And that the act of doing that can have a positive feedback loop because it can lower hunger in and of itself without any will power being applied.

I wanted to help people increase their chance of success.

And yes at times I felt like Peter Parker and other posters were J. Jonah Jameson. But like Peter I carry on because it is the act of helping that counts.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:48 PM   #72
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There's nothing wrong with wheat and pasta. I eat it every day on my diet. Don't have a ravenous appetite. Losing weight at a nice pace. No binging. Its all in your head.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:23 PM   #73
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Everyone needs to find out what works. For me wheat and pasta were devastating. That was my reality lived year after year day after day. Of course I didn't know that until giving them up.

But since then I haven't gotten sick. I used to have horrendous allergies. Austin is the allergy capital of the country. We had our cedar season which use to just make me into a quivering mass of sneezing, and headache, and body aches. Hardly felt it this year.

I have become a big fan of Professor Tim Noakes. Here is a short video from him with a link on the page to a much longer video. That longer one is called Health Sessions. Tim Noakes has spent his career as a Professor of exercise physiology. He even wrote a book that was one of the biggest sellers on importance of carbs for exercise. He has totally rejected his own previous work. That takes guts no matter if you think he is right now or right then. But as you can see I am far from the only one who has found grains are not for them.

As long as your happy with what you are doing, go for it. I am extremely happy with what I am doing.

http://180nutrition.com.au/2013/10/1...ese-two-foods/
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:24 PM   #74
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This is a non-issue. For some people, grains, pasta, potatoes, sugar,etc are problematic for weight loss and maintenance. Doesn't mean it applies to all, but it definitely applies to many. I would guess it's people over a certain threshold of extra weight. Most likely it's due to insulin resistance. That's the model that made sense to me and helped me to lose weight and comfortably maintain--- as long as I avoid those things. There's nothing to debate really, as no one is claiming this fits everyone.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:41 AM   #75
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And yes at times I felt like Peter Parker and other posters were J. Jonah Jameson. But like Peter I carry on because it is the act of helping that counts.
I don't live in a fantasy land so someone putting on a cloak and claiming to be a superhero is not only comical but a bit delusional. Furthermore being a superhero always sets someone up for being a villain and in the real world there are villains that are worth noting (Hitler, Assad, etc). I don't think appropriate to villainize a mother who's trying to lose 20lbs or any person who doesn't have the slightest interest in foresaking bread. Lastly, when you use "..other posters..." in a sentence it's a passive agressive way of not having a direct conversation.

People make up their minds pretty quickly about what the "right way" to lose weight is. And then they scurry off and find all supporting evidence and research that will validate and reinforce their OPINION. I cringe when someone talks about messed up metabolisms, the corn lobby, and government - not because I disagree with some of those arguments but at the great pains people go through to find a culprit to alleviate their own responsibilities.

diamondgeog, you still have not answered any question I have posed. Have you convinced your close family and friends to avoid all grains and carbs? Do you disallow your kids to eat a sandwich? Because if you haven't then the ground you're standing on is rather shaky and unpredictable. And the proof is never in weightloss, it's in maintenance.

I listen to Dr. Lustig very carefully and have never disagreed with a word that he has said. But note, he wears no cape and and people are more likely to follow someone who is backed by science than "look at me I'm such a success" logic. The latter is just an infomercial that has gone on 25 minutes too long.
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