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An approach that might stop binging and keep you in control? Perhaps

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Old 02-11-2014, 10:22 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by diamondgeog View Post
But hey Wannabe thanks for the 'encouragement' that I will go back and likely die before my daughter turns 15.
I would never ever ever wish you to go backwards and die from heart disease or diabetes or anything like that! But see how easily you react to my mere doubt of anyone's ability to persist in a diet that restricts carbs so much? You don't like being questioned, you think it's absurd for anyone to question your long term success, you've taken offense to it. But you have no problem telling a stranger at your office that his diet will contribute to his demise... funny how we we can dish it out but we can't take it.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:42 AM   #47
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The very title of this thread was perhaps. I understand people are different. But many people have biology like mine. I'm not going to question others having different biology. Heck mines changed.

I didn't say it would contribute to his demise. He is pre diabetic. I said I thought cutting breads would help. Sue me for saying a pre diabetic would be helped.

And I am not super restrictive on carbs. It isn't radical. I probably have over 100 grams a day. I choose to not get them from wheat and other grains as much as possible now.

And I feel you intentionally misrepresent everything I say and make assumptions left and right. Everything you said about me I feel about you. But it isn't healthy for either of us. So I am going to not respond to any more of your posts.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:45 PM   #48
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...we are all so different, so differently wired and conditioned, with such different preferences and lifestyles and other constraints, that the only true secret to weight loss is that there is no one true secret.
I'll agree and disagree. There's no "secret" to weight loss. It's pure physics - burn more energy than you take in and you'll lose weight. We all arrive to that by different means and that's where we all bicker and disagree and swear by one means or another. Some of us count calories, do more exercise, eliminate certain foods or food groups, use portion control, seek therapy, take medication, surgeries, etc. The whole song and dance revolves around decreasing our food consumption. There is no point in finding the "right" way, because any of these methods will work if you follow them consistently. The only point in this is to find what works long term in a sustainable manageable way that won't eventually trip you up.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth

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Old 02-11-2014, 05:58 PM   #49
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There are three crucial, factual points to be made.

Fact 1. All obesity is caused by an excess of insulin in the system. Insulin is the ONLY fat storage hormone. If a person runs out of insulin they lose weight rapidly. (Rapid, unexplained weight loss is the major symptom of undiagnosed diabetes.) Each individual secretes a different amount of insulin in response to carbohydrates. (This is how we all know someone who eats whatever he likes and never gains weight.) There is also probably a racial aspect to this - some races genetically produce more insulin than others.

Fact 2. Fatty foods are highly calorific and to eat them when insulin is high will cause excess weight storage; however eating fats without the presence of insulin will not result in the storage of excess fat. Therefore, if you eat 2,000 calories made up of 1,000 calories of sugar and 1,000 calories of fat you will store the fat, but if you eat 2,000 calories of fat you will not store the fat.

Fact 3. All diets that work involve a reduction in carbohydrate intake, even if that was not the intention of the dieter. If someone reduces her intake of foods by 50% she is unintentionally reducing her intake of refined carbs by 50%, as she cuts out alcohol, chocolate, cake, pizza, etc. She is therefore reducing the level of insulin in her system both overall and on an hour-by-hour basis.

This means that you can take your choice when dieting. You can either have low fat and high carb and still lose weight because the amount of calories you are eating, in combination with the amount of refined carbs, is less than you were eating previously. Or you can go low carb and high fat. This way you are eating more calories, but you are inducing less insulin to be in your system, making it less likely that you will store the fat. If you go to extremes and eat no carbs, you can eat as much fat as you like (but you have to restrict protein as that can spike insulin.)

So, as you can see, EVERYONE is right -- either approach will lead to weight loss, and it's up to each person to discover what their own body will tolerate.

Those individuals who have a natural, genetic tendency to secrete a lot of insulin will get very hungry indeed on a high carb low fat diet. This is because the sugar in the diet will cause insulin to spike and then to plummet, and the plummetting causes horrendous hunger. Another individual, who does not secret as much insulin, does not experience the spike-plummet effect and so will not feel as hungry.

Give a low insulin-producer 30g cereal and skimmed milk for breakfast and she'll be fine till lunch.

Give a high insulin-producer 30g cereal and skimmed milk for breakfast and she'll be ravenous in half an hour.

So what is the point in arguing when individuals are different and the same thing does not work for everyone?

There's no "secret" to weight loss. It's pure physics - burn more energy than you take in and you'll lose weight.

This simply isn't true. Humans are complex systems of hormones and chemistry, not like a bath in which you regulate the amount of water by turning on the taps or pulling out the plug! We are much more individualistic than you seem to think. My b/f is 56, eats whatever he likes (as many carbs AND as much fat) and never does any exercise, and he weighs 136 pounds. According to your theory he should be about 450lb by now :-)

diamondgeorg is trying to help those people with a high insulin response to understand why dieting is so hard for them, and is providing information that government health advisors do not provide when they tell us to fill up on rice, bread, potatoes and pasta. This is terrible advice for people who are high insulin-producers, but OK for those who aren't.

Helena

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Old 02-11-2014, 06:39 PM   #50
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And the high insulin low insulin producer can even change within a person. I noticed this because I have had a number of meals at Mexican restaurants same eating as before. Very large amounts of carbs. Before I'd have been hungry in less than 2 hours. Now it fills me for 8 hours. So I've 'repaired' my insulin metabolism to some extent.

They've done studies and some people on high carb diets literally have insulin present 24 hours. Virtually impossible to lose weight.

This current effort has been more successful and easier than before because I used science this time. And yes there are many low insulin producers. But I know there are also MANY high insulin producers which is why diabetes is so high in U.S. I found something that not only shed pounds, but really shed stomach fat, and really made me much less hungry all the time.

And I wanted to share. But never fear. I am going to hang out in Carb Counters now. Wishing all here as much control and success as they'd like.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:47 PM   #51
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These types of threads drive me crazy but I couldn't stop myself from chiming in. We're all trying to be helpful but lets get the facts straight if we're going to use the words facts. Let me preface this by saying I am a low carb proponent. With that out of the way lets get one thing clear.

Insulin is not THE problem. The problem is multifactoral. The most mind blowing fact about insulin? In my opinion it is that only about 70% of obese people are even insulin resistant.

Here is a fact. You can lose weight on any diet that you can follow where calories are restricted.

The best example I can give of this is the "fruit diet" or the 80/10/10 diet. If you follow the fruit diet you will lose weight eating 80% carbs. Why? Because there is only so much fruit you can eat.

Another example is the "Twinkie diet" where the guy counted calories and lived primarily on twinkies and nutty bars.

Calories always dictate fat loss or gain. Yes, we're complicated chemistry sets and input/output varies around a number of factors but it is still about restricting calories.

The question is what is the easiest way to restict them and how do different types of food affect your energy level. (Input and output) This is variable to the individual but for most people low carb is the way to go.

I always reccomend people try low carb first because for most people that is going to be the easiest way to restrict calories but in the end it is all about calories.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:55 PM   #52
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I understand what you are saying John. BUT - for many, especially it seems for us females, the white sugar thing is the monkey on our backs. Eliminating that crud is almost always a huge step towards sanity. It takes a more integrated approach and of course the medical profession is no help and the "diet industry" is all "gimicky" - grrr - but there is hope - just have to dig deep.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:45 PM   #53
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diamondgeog, your eating plan makes a lot of sense to me. Your description of the constant hunger of insulin resistance is all too familiar. I lost 80 lbs on a restricted carb, fat & calorie diet. I maintain my wt. by keeping carbs & fats on the low side, but am often hungry. Moreover, I'm triggered to binge more easily than before I lost the weight. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:11 AM   #54
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For me it's never been about carbs, but it has been fat and salt. I would never sit down and eat gorge on potatoes or rice, but I could eat cheese by the kilo. Cake, chocolate and other sweet things or even pasta are neither here nor there for me. *shrug*
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:49 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by 362to262 View Post
Fact 3. All diets that work involve a reduction in carbohydrate intake, even if that was not the intention of the dieter. If someone reduces her intake of foods by 50% she is unintentionally reducing her intake of refined carbs by 50%, as she cuts out alcohol, chocolate, cake, pizza, etc. She is therefore reducing the level of insulin in her system both overall and on an hour-by-hour basis.

This means that you can take your choice when dieting. You can either have low fat and high carb and still lose weight because the amount of calories you are eating, in combination with the amount of refined carbs, is less than you were eating previously. Or you can go low carb and high fat. This way you are eating more calories, but you are inducing less insulin to be in your system, making it less likely that you will store the fat. If you go to extremes and eat no carbs, you can eat as much fat as you like (but you have to restrict protein as that can spike insulin.)
That doesn't necessarily track... if all the dieter did was restrict calories, the RATIO of carbs would still be the same, the calories would simply be different. i STARTED my weight loss diet simply by portion control but it was by no means reducing my carb consumption RATIO at ALL and i successfully lost weight. i do NOW do relatively low carb (probably 100 c) and i have done this for at least a year but i do allow myself free reign one day a week and believe me, my carb "regulation mechanism" hasn't been healed in the least, i still have the ability to consume excessive and vast quantities of it. For me it still is basically MIND over matter and not matter over mind...
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:08 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by 362to262 View Post

There's no "secret" to weight loss. It's pure physics - burn more energy than you take in and you'll lose weight.

This simply isn't true. Humans are complex systems of hormones and chemistry, not like a bath in which you regulate the amount of water by turning on the taps or pulling out the plug! We are much more individualistic than you seem to think. My b/f is 56, eats whatever he likes (as many carbs AND as much fat) and never does any exercise, and he weighs 136 pounds. According to your theory he should be about 450lb by now :-)

Helena
First of all, what I said was not a theory, it's just a plain old ugly fact. How each individual person's biology is set up to store vs. burn energy is as you say - complex and going low carb does indeed SPEED UP a person's ability to burn energy.... I have high doubts about low carb fixing anyone's metabolism long term because if one was to start eating carbs again with regularity then all the fixing they did would be out the window.

I have no theories about your boyfriend, I have no idea who he is. And you say he eats as much as he wants. But unless you have solid diagnostic medical proof that he is taking in more energy than he burns then I'd say your boyfriend is some kind of alien species. Since that's unlikely then I'm willing to bet that he does not have a problematic relationship with food, he eats what he likes but only what he needs, he doesn't limit anything because he doesn't binge, he doesn't store fat because he doesn't eat more than his body can burn. He may eat what he wants (lots of people do), but don't confuse that with eating more than he needs. Is he binging? Is he eating a dozen donuts in one sitting and then following it with a steak and potato dinner and then lounging around for 3 days? Because I'm willing to bet he's not, and this is the kind of disordered eating that many of us here have dealt with in our journeys - eating way beyond what our bodies can process.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth

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Old 02-12-2014, 01:06 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by JohnP View Post
These types of threads drive me crazy but I couldn't stop myself from chiming in. We're all trying to be helpful but lets get the facts straight if we're going to use the words facts. Let me preface this by saying I am a low carb proponent. With that out of the way lets get one thing clear.

Insulin is not THE problem. The problem is multifactoral. The most mind blowing fact about insulin? In my opinion it is that only about 70% of obese people are even insulin resistant.

Here is a fact. You can lose weight on any diet that you can follow where calories are restricted.

The best example I can give of this is the "fruit diet" or the 80/10/10 diet. If you follow the fruit diet you will lose weight eating 80% carbs. Why? Because there is only so much fruit you can eat.

Another example is the "Twinkie diet" where the guy counted calories and lived primarily on twinkies and nutty bars.

Calories always dictate fat loss or gain. Yes, we're complicated chemistry sets and input/output varies around a number of factors but it is still about restricting calories.

The question is what is the easiest way to restict them and how do different types of food affect your energy level. (Input and output) This is variable to the individual but for most people low carb is the way to go.

I always reccomend people try low carb first because for most people that is going to be the easiest way to restrict calories but in the end it is all about calories.
I wasn't going to reply anymore but JohnP your post caught my eye. JohnP you are correct to some extent but I think you are leaving out some information that was absolutely critical and vital for my success.

Imagine we were all like R2D2 and designed like 'him'. Perhaps R2D2 would have been designed to run on solar energy, gas, and electricity. Whatever was available to him that could be used as energy. He had no appetite, no metabolism. So for him the Twinkies diet for him if he could extract energy from them would be just fine.

But as humans appetite is very important. So for me it was vital and is very real that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie. For two very important, fundamental reasons.

One is carbs made me VERY HUNGRY. So if I had carbs as a big part of my daily eating, especially from breads and pasta it was going to be virtually impossible for me not to overeat. Study after study is bearing this out. They are dividing people into two groups. One is not lowering carb and calorie counting. The other is low carb with NO CALORIE restrictions or counting at all. In every study the low carb group does better.

The other thing is that when I had carbs as a big part of my diet my whole metabolism was in fat storage mode. I had to reset my metabolism by giving up virtually all 'junk carbs'. It is now much more normal and I burn fat much better.

So as human beings it really isn't a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. On carbs I was hungry all the time and storing fat and holding on to it. Without those carbs my appetite has come down naturally and I am burning fat. I didn't calorie count once during my weight loss and I don't now. I have no need to.

I cannot overstate how important it is for real world success to absolutely understand that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie in terms of succeeding.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...b_2759564.html
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #58
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JohnP has spoken.

Everyone go home now
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:24 PM   #59
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Like JohnP but he is wrong here. Study after study shows it. Real people show it.

If we were Robots without appetites and hunger and metabolisms he would be right about energy units.

BTW I fully accepting that carb intake doesn't matter for you. Or JohnP. The corollary of course is that you need to be fulling accepting that amount of carbs not just calories matter for others.

And Dr. Lustig, a very respected scientist, is showing around the world that source of calories do matter. When they are sugar they are correlated with a lot. When they aren't there is not nearly the rise in diabetes. So clearly to bodies the source of calories matters...a lot.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:12 PM   #60
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If you starve someone on an all-carb diet that person will still lose weight. And no one is disputing that macronutrient ratios affect energy levels, satiety, clarity of thinking etc. Macros matter for most people but some people function OK with a lot of carbs including grains and sugars, especially people who are highly active - athletes, construction workers, hikers, and the like.
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