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Eating past the point of hunger.

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Old 04-06-2013, 07:44 AM   #1
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Default Eating past the point of hunger.

I was thinking about this yesterday, how our reward system is skewed. I've been working on bettering my diet for what seems a lifetime now. I'm quite happy with my accomplishments but I'm nowhere near being as in control as I'd like to be. Yesterday after lunch I had that terrible feeling that I overate. I don't overeat often anymore and the feeling is terrible. Anyway my stomach hurt, I was lethargic, I had to sit on the couch for about 45min for the discomfort to go away. I was breathing harder and felt nauseous too.

For years I've done that, overeaten until I felt sick. But what will it take for us to learn from our actions? When you touch the hot stove you get burned = that means you don't touch the hot stove. Why is it not so easy to feel the burn of overeating? Why do we eat past the point of hunger? Is there something totally messed up going on in our brains?

Just thinking out loud.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:46 AM   #2
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I did the same thing. That's a big reason why I've always been obese. I finally realized that it was a mental thing. I would eat for pleasure. I don't overeat or binge on grilled chicken and vegetables (which is on my plan right now). I don't feel any desire to do so. But if you put a pizza, bowl of pasta, burgers -- or one of my many other "trigger" foods in front of me, I would (in the past) eat beyond the point of satisfying my hunger until I was uncomfortably full. Then, later in the day/evening, I would eat the leftovers. No sane, rational person does this. To me, the only explanation for it is addiction. The problem is that with other addictions (drugs, alcohol) one can implement a zero tolerance approach to kick the addiction. With food, you can't stop eating. You can only choose to eat certain types of food and try to limit your consumption. For people who have issues with binging on sugary foods, they can eliminate those. But for other people, like me, who can overeat just about anything, it becomes much more challenging!
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:47 AM   #3
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First, congratulations on changing a lot of your habits -- I'm beginning to see the same thing happen and I don't want to fall back into bad habits as it could so easily happen.

In terms of eating past the "feeling full" stage, there are a couple of things that can happen. Sometimes I just eat too fast and my tummy doesn't have time to send the message to my brain saying STOP! By the time the message gets there, I've already eaten too much and realize I don't feel too hot. The other thing that has happened to me is that I engage in what I refer to as distracted eating. It can be from reading a book while eating, or watching TV or even engaging in a really good conversation. I'm just so caught up in my other activity that I don't pay enough attention to what I'm eating.

It's somewhat harder to control in a restaurant unless you use the trick to box up half your meal before you even start eating. But I've gotten to the point at home where I both try to pay attention more and I also carefully measure out what I'm having. As my stomach has shrunk, even that is too much some times, but at least I'm not going over my calorie count like I did when I would sit and eat a whole bag of chips while watching a movie!
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:52 AM   #4
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I do eat extremely fast, so I'm sure that's part of my problem. But its much more than that. Heck, I remember instances where while I'm eating a meal and drinking a (diet) soda along with it, I will fill very full --- too full to eat anymore. But then all of a sudden, because I was drinking soda with my meal, I had to burp. Then, voila! I had more room in my tummy to put more food because some of the air bubble from the soda were suddenly gone. So what would I invariably do? Stuff my face with more food until I couldn't eat anymore. There is no getting around it: that is a sickness! It just amazes me that I did not see it for what it was at the time I was doing it.
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Started out at 405.5 on 7/31/12. Then lost 156 lbs to get down to 249.5 by 7/31/13. In the past year I have put back on over 40 pounds and reached a high of 291.5. But I have recommitted myself and quickly took off ten pounds by 7/31/14. I am now trying to take off the weight I put back on, and then lose the rest of the weight I was originally trying to lose. ---- Starting weight / Low weight / Current Weight / Goal Weight
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #5
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betsy, distracted eating is indeed a great obstacle. Eating by myself often ensures over eating because I watch tv or drive or read a book. It's easy to dull the fullness detectors in your brain this way by being on automated pilot.

When I'm engaged in a conversation with a friend I find that I eat much much less and get full sooner. I always attribute that to the sense of eat slowly and feeling satisfied by the overall experience of dining with company. If I'm alone I don't have that, and even eating with hubby doesn't help because we eat in front of the tv. Maybe I need to implement a dinner rule, tv off and sitting at the table instead of at the couch.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:33 AM   #6
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I think what might me helpful is mixing things up!

I am Lefty soo using a fork to eat out of the Right hand would cause me much more effort and slow down the process.

Use chopsticks especially if you are not good at it...makes you think about what your doing!

Try to think of things that would make it more difficult ...like putting your arm in a sling ..... And now eat ...slows you down and makes you focus!

Hope this helps!

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Old 04-06-2013, 05:48 PM   #7
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Great thread!

I think eating too fast and distracted eating is very, very common among those of us who battle our weight. Since starting intuitive eating, I've made a conscious decision to ONLY eat - no watching tv, no reading, etc. I have also slowed my eating pace way, way down - this is in order to really savor what I'm eating. And because I'm eating whatever I want, my meal is something I really enjoy.

Take it from me - it's amazing how much more quickly you fill up, not only because you're slowing down but because you're also really, really tasting what you're eating. I promise you that if you try that - even with food that you think is the best thing EVER - when you slow down and really taste it, the law of diminishing returns really does kick in. That 7th, or 8th, or 10th bite is nowhere near as good as the first. This is true about 90% of the time, at least for me. There are a few things that honestly I think I could eat from now until the end of time and never stop, but that's rare - and eventually you DO fill up - even with those foods!

My daughter and I went to one of our favorite restaurants this afternoon for a late lunch/early supper (got there about 3:15 pm). I ordered an appetizer (chicken and avocado eggrolls) for my meal and left some of it, not only because it was losing its appeal but because I also knew I really wanted some creme brulee & needed to leave some room. Got the creme brulee and ate exactly half of it. I was very full - not stuffed, but full - but most importantly, satisfied. If I'd ordered a salad and grilled chicken because I thought it was better for me than chicken and avocado eggrolls & creme brulee, I'd have left there completely unhappy. And would have likely hit the chips and dip when I got home. (I brought the other half of the creme brulee home for my husband). Eating with my daughter really slows me down because she's always been a slow eater. So I was really able to concentrate on my food, even while having a nice conversation with her.

So yes, putting that fork down and really slowing down - even if you feel ravenously hungry when you eat - makes a big, big difference. I remember doing WW, Jenny Craig and other "diets" where they emphasize behavior modification and that's what they always told you to do, but of course I ignored them. Now I see why they tell you to do that. It is important.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:21 PM   #8
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I think our eyes are bigger than our stomachs!

The best part of my new way of eating is making my plate of food and that's the meal. Nothing more, nothing less. It's all measured and portioned and now after about 8 months, I am confident it will be sufficient to keep me full and well-nourished. In the beginning I was skeptical that I could be full without eating as much as I was (I went from an estimated 3000 calories [I think] to about 800 a day medically supervised). I thought I'd be starving and would die from hunger! But it's amazing how the right amount of protein, carbs, etc. can satisfy your body instead of the neverending hunger from chips, pizza, Chinese food, mac & cheese, etc.

I have days that I am starving (like today!) and I can add more foods on plan to my day; I should never go hungry on my plan. Other days I am satisfied with my regular food schedule. But I can tell you...I never ever again want that full, lethargic feeling that you had!
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:37 PM   #9
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i completely concur w/the other posters

Eating needs to be an event in and of itself otherwise calories will add up fast and you won't be able to recognize satiety levels

That is one thing i did for my weight loss success is CONSCIOUS eating, being aware of every bite so i can savor and relish it. i can do it watching TV or YT videos, etc. but i do eat slowly and really focus on my eating and never just pop something into my mouth, i do think that's one of the keys to success
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefla70 View Post
I did the same thing. That's a big reason why I've always been obese. I finally realized that it was a mental thing. I would eat for pleasure. I don't overeat or binge on grilled chicken and vegetables (which is on my plan right now). I don't feel any desire to do so. But if you put a pizza, bowl of pasta, burgers -- or one of my many other "trigger" foods in front of me, I would (in the past) eat beyond the point of satisfying my hunger until I was uncomfortably full. Then, later in the day/evening, I would eat the leftovers. No sane, rational person does this. To me, the only explanation for it is addiction. The problem is that with other addictions (drugs, alcohol) one can implement a zero tolerance approach to kick the addiction. With food, you can't stop eating. You can only choose to eat certain types of food and try to limit your consumption. For people who have issues with binging on sugary foods, they can eliminate those. But for other people, like me, who can overeat just about anything, it becomes much more challenging!
i'm the same way EXCEPT i can easily over eat healthy foods, i can eat 2 platefuls of tilapia fish loaded with veggies and tomato sauce, probably twice what my husband can eat, which is probably why it's great that that kind of food is much lower calorie than what i was used to putting in my mouth. i HAVE to have a good portion of food or it just won't work, i wish i wasn't that way, that is the biggest thing i'd love to change about myself (even though i've essentially made goal) is to have that satiety level like a NORMAL person and it just isn't so i eat lower calorie more nutritious dense foods to make up for it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernMaven View Post
Great thread!

I think eating too fast and distracted eating is very, very common among those of us who battle our weight. Since starting intuitive eating, I've made a conscious decision to ONLY eat - no watching tv, no reading, etc. I have also slowed my eating pace way, way down - this is in order to really savor what I'm eating. And because I'm eating whatever I want, my meal is something I really enjoy.

Take it from me - it's amazing how much more quickly you fill up, not only because you're slowing down but because you're also really, really tasting what you're eating. I promise you that if you try that - even with food that you think is the best thing EVER - when you slow down and really taste it, the law of diminishing returns really does kick in. That 7th, or 8th, or 10th bite is nowhere near as good as the first. This is true about 90% of the time, at least for me. There are a few things that honestly I think I could eat from now until the end of time and never stop, but that's rare - and eventually you DO fill up - even with those foods!

My daughter and I went to one of our favorite restaurants this afternoon for a late lunch/early supper (got there about 3:15 pm). I ordered an appetizer (chicken and avocado eggrolls) for my meal and left some of it, not only because it was losing its appeal but because I also knew I really wanted some creme brulee & needed to leave some room. Got the creme brulee and ate exactly half of it. I was very full - not stuffed, but full - but most importantly, satisfied. If I'd ordered a salad and grilled chicken because I thought it was better for me than chicken and avocado eggrolls & creme brulee, I'd have left there completely unhappy. And would have likely hit the chips and dip when I got home. (I brought the other half of the creme brulee home for my husband). Eating with my daughter really slows me down because she's always been a slow eater. So I was really able to concentrate on my food, even while having a nice conversation with her.

So yes, putting that fork down and really slowing down - even if you feel ravenously hungry when you eat - makes a big, big difference. I remember doing WW, Jenny Craig and other "diets" where they emphasize behavior modification and that's what they always told you to do, but of course I ignored them. Now I see why they tell you to do that. It is important.
Is that what intuitive eating is? Behavior modification? Actually I don't know anything about IE where can I learn more?
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:23 AM   #12
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Is that what intuitive eating is? Behavior modification? Actually I don't know anything about IE where can I learn more?
Hi Wannabeskinny

There is an intuitive eating thread under "General Diet Plans and Discussions" if you want to learn more. Right now we're on #17 and the second post in the thread is something you might want to read.

Intuitive Eating #17

There is a lot of information out there about IE; unfortunately a lot of it is contradictory and sometimes confusing. You asked on the other thread what I'm doing, so I'll try to sum it up for you as succinctly as I can.

I only eat when I'm hungry. That means that I don't eat at mealtimes, only when my body tells me to eat. More often than not that means that I end up eating one big meal a day and usually either one smaller meal or two "snack" type meals. This is going to be different for everyone. And of course this isn't set in stone either - some days I may eat the traditional three meals...although that's rare.

I eat exactly what I want to eat - not what I think is good for me. Again, one day that might be a egg and cheese biscuit from Waffle House (I ate that yesterday) or it might be grilled tilapia and asparagus.

I eat ONLY until full....this was the hardest part for me, and I'm still working on it. I finally realized that some days I'm going to eat until I'm almost stuffed - others just barely full. Some of the IE material has you trying to determine your satiety level based on some arbitrary scale. I rejected that early on...just like your meals, your fullness level is going to be different from day to day. I like to go fairly long stretches in between meals and I've never been a snacker, so I will generally eat to comfortable fullness, not just "I'm no longer hungry." There IS a difference. I don't necessarily eat until I couldn't possibly eat another bite, but sometimes I get close to that. When I first started I'd eat just until I was no longer hungry, but that wasn't enough...for me.

I stopped eating in front of the tv or reading while eating, two habits that were very ingrained in me. I now eat at the table and I give my food my complete attention. I savor every single bite of it. I think about the taste and texture of the food - what it is that I like about it, how it makes me feel when I eat it. I know that sounds super weird, but that probably more than anything has helped me to not only slow waaayyyy down in the eating process but also really enjoy my food and therefore increase my satisfaction level.

I have to say here that I think satisfaction is just as important as satiety. They are two entirely different things. I can eat something that I think I should eat, that's "healthy," so to speak, and quell hunger. But if it's not something I really WANT to eat at that moment, I will NOT be satisfied. That's what leads to eating other things when I'm not hungry. If I just eat what I want to begin with, I don't have that problem. Yesterday I ate a dessert after my late afternoon meal (which was actually an appetizer) and I ate exactly half of it. I didn't intentionally decide to eat half, but I was completely full AND satisfied after I ate half, so I saw no reason to eat any more. That would have not happened if I had been on a "diet" and ate that, either on plan or off plan.

So to sum up -

I eat only when hungry
I eat what I want to eat
I eat without distractions
I savor every bite
I stop when I'm full

I cannot recommend the book "The Overfed Head" highly enough. Google "overfed head pdf" and you'll find the book in pdf form online. No need to buy it, you can read it right on your computer. It helped me immensely. I don't go by his eating scale at all, however. I'm getting better and better at reading my own body's signals. Like the ladies of Beyond Chocolate put it - you don't need a chart to tell you when to pee, why would you need one to tell you when to eat? That really hit me upside the head.

The hardest part is getting past the fear of gaining weight. Many times people DO gain weight when they first start intuitive eating. But in order to make peace with food the first thing you have to do is stop restricting yourself. IE is certainly not an excuse to eat every kind of food imaginable until you feel like you're going to pop. You have to be reasonable. I think some people start out doing that (which is understandable) but you have to keep a level head about it.

I was sick to death of dieting and was prepared to never lose another lb. That, plus the fact that I'd been a normal weight for 20 years (28-48) without ever dieting or giving a second thought to what I was eating has helped me. I can reach back to that time in my life and remember how I ate - which is just like a child eats, frankly.

Please go back to Anyone manage to quit dieting with positive results? and read bingefree2013's posts. They are spot on.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:55 AM   #13
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Thanks for your post SouthernMaven. IE sounds like normal eating. The type of eating that normal people do that don't have food issues, eating disorders and food addictions. It's what I'm trying to achieve but I don't know how to conquer my food addictions and my disordered eating behaviors. IE sounds like you just step into that lifestyle of "normal eating" and to be frank it sounds almost impossible. I'm downloading the pdf you suggested and will look into it.

I long to be free of disordered eating. I want to enjoy the food I'm eating, not crave it like a maniac when I can't have it, not feel guilty after I've eaten, and most of all I'd like to forget about food between meals and not think about it every moment of the day.
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"Binging is a descent into a world where every restriction... is cut loose. At its core is a feeling of deprivation.. a feeling you can never get enough. Binges do not signify a lack of willpower or inability to care for yourself. On the contrary, binges are a urgent attempt to care for yourself when you feel uncared for. They are the voice of survival. Binges are the mark of the self that says, 'I am tired of feeling deprived, of being told I am wrong, that I am bad." - Geneen Roth
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny View Post
Thanks for your post SouthernMaven. IE sounds like normal eating. The type of eating that normal people do that don't have food issues, eating disorders and food addictions.
That's exactly what it is. But as you say, not easy to accomplish for someone who's suffered from disordered eating.

Quote:
It's what I'm trying to achieve but I don't know how to conquer my food addictions and my disordered eating behaviors. IE sounds like you just step into that lifestyle of "normal eating" and to be frank it sounds almost impossible.
When I first started I found myself still trapped in the "diet" mentality. From reading others' experiences with IE, it's similar for them. The more disordered the eating, the harder it is to let go of it. But it isn't impossible, although I can see how one can think that. I did initially, which is why I rejected it at first.

For me, it was just that I reached that "a ha" moment in my life where I realized I couldn't diet any longer. I'm sure part of that is my age. I think it would have been a much bigger struggle for me when I was younger.

But young people do it too!

Quote:
I long to be free of disordered eating. I want to enjoy the food I'm eating, not crave it like a maniac when I can't have it, not feel guilty after I've eaten, and most of all I'd like to forget about food between meals and not think about it every moment of the day.
I know exactly how you feel. It's what we all want for ourselves.

And frankly, I was just sick to death of being hungry! I mean, it was just that simple. I was always hungry when counting calories, even if I was eating the right food. It may have been psychological, I don't know...in fact, I think it probably was. I know that right now I'm probably not eating much more than when I was calorie-counting, but I'm never, ever hungry. I'm learning how I need to eat during the day to keep myself satiated, and the three-meal a day routine doesn't work for me. One really heavy meal (loaded with carbs, incidentally) and one or two snack-type meals is the best way for me to eat. I don't think I ever would have realized that had I not started IE.

I hope The Overfed Head helps you. There are other books as well. Lots of people really like the Tribole/Resch book (Intuitive Eating: A Revolutionary Program That Works). I got it from the library. Frankly, I found it tedious and over-complicated, but everyone's tastes are different. The information in the book might prove much more useful for you than for me. It's wherever we are in the process that makes sources of information more valuable for one person over another.

Please keep me updated on your progress. Feel free to PM me if you wish. I wish you the best.
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- Rob Stevens, The Overfed Head


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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