[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by surfergirl2

Last night i went out with a friend for her birthday and all of a sudden i found myself panicking once again, the way i do when i'm dieting, thinking "what am i going to eat? how many calories are in it?" And not only that...i found myself looking forward to going home afterwards and eating MORE...BEFORE i even arrived at the restaurant!!! I guess that habit (freaking out about restaurant meal, then going home and binging) was so engrained that i actually looked forward to it!!!

I ended up eating an ok-sized (not too large) meal, but then i ate most of the dessert that we split. On the drive home, i thought about whether i was going to eat more when i got home. I added up the calories in my meal and decided they weren't too high, so i ate a little more when i got home. Nowhere near a binge though. Still, i would NEVER EVER admit this to anyone in real life. Most people are so full after a restaurant meal (especially one that includes dessert) that they LAST thing they want to do when they get home is eat MORE! I mean, i wouldn't be embarrassed about it if i hadn't eaten all day so i was starving or something like that, but this was more out of habit (a really dysfunctional habit) than anything else.

I have noticed though that this doesn't ALWAYS happen when i eat out with other people. If it's a "food as fuel" situation, such as eating lunch during the workday or stopping for food on a roadtrip, i don't get this anxiety. But when it's a celebratory dinner of some kind, i get this anxiety. Edited to add: i thought about this and maybe this means it's not the food that gives me anxiety--it's the loss of focus on the food, i.e. having to socialize when i really want to just think about food???? Because living by myself, i'm used to eating dinner by myself and i look forward to it. I almost resent it when i have to socialize at dinner!!!

Ha ha, I resent having to socialize while I'm eating too unless it is with a cute boy. Also, this kind of shows how calorie counting actually led you to eat more than you might have otherwise. Calorie counting has often caused me to eat more simply because I had not reached my goal yet. I don't regret ditching the calorie counting. I doubt I'll ever go back to it even if for some reason I start restricting again (I hope not but always possible).

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by freelancemomma

This is what I struggle with. Anything less than 2 cups of cereal seems like NOTHING to me. It occurred to me yesterday, after checking on this thread, that I still RESENT the idea that I have to moderate my portions. It seems mean-spirited of biology to have designed humans in such a way that our appetites don't match our physiological needs. (Yeah, yeah, I know that large appetites evolved in times of scarcity, but still.) I guess I'm not at the stage of accepting this whole moderation thing yet, let alone embracing it.

Freelance

I just love how you put things. I guess that's why your name is freelance . I think alot of people would agree our biology is mean-spirited. You have been successful in meeting your goal weight, so maybe you could share what your methods have been.

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by CurvyReadhead

I am pretty sure IE will result int weight loss if you overweight or even obese. However, some people might never be skinny- if their bodies' comfortable weight is higher than 'skinny'. I'd really like to be skinny, but the **** with it, if i can just be comfortable with food and stop thinking about food, i am willing to accept that.
Let me share my story: I gained weight continously and very slowly. I was always not one of the skinny ones and kinda proud that i was 'different', i never bothered. I had accepted not being skinny. Over the years though, the weight accumulated to probably 185-190lbs (at 5'4'), i am not quite sure. I had noticed how unfit and flabby i was and i wasn't comfortable with the situation. I was fine with being chubby (i had never dieted!) but not with being fat. So i decided to turn my life around. Not the worst idea i've ever had: I started to cut the junk food (the little that i ate) and began eating 'clean'. I never considered my eating anormal, i always ate normally. yeah, of course i took the second helping and i could never stop eating just one piece of candy, i always ate a lot of it (but i found that ok and normal, no bingeing as such. i just liked the taste and had no real reason to stop). Also no extraordinary emotional eating, no major crisis that i could refer to- just gradually eating too much and reaching for food when i was bored (i often ate while doing other things). I also started working out, A LOT. Everything worked for me and i lost about 26pounds or so and i am running a half-marathon on sunday. The thing is, i tend to get obsessive. With everything. With eating clean and exercising. I felt worse and worse about every 'cheat' and then i started binge and eventually, throwing up afterwards. That was the point when i started searching for alternative because i knew myself pretty well- i'm going to be even more excessive if i don't stop now. For me, reading about eating disorders made me (or better: made me want) develop one too, because you know, it's normal, a lot of people have it.I never developed a real eating disorder because i stopped it when i began.
I am practicising IE for about 6 weeks now and continued to lose weight. I consider "Life is Hard, Food is Easy: The 5-Step Plan to Overcome Emotional Eating and Lose Weight on Any Diet" by Linda Spangle the most helpful, as i have to work on not reaching to food for comfort and against boredom and being overworked- stuffing my feelings, so to say. I do not have 'huge' issues, but i am often very harsh with myself. I do not have self-esteem issues, i am very content with myself and my body not that i am back to a more 'normal' weight. I enjoy shopping and i like to wear nice clothes. I dropped exercise as a mean to burn calories but instead, run for fun, to feel good. I also do strength exercises because i want to be toned and lean. i'd say everything's going fine- this morning i was down to 149lbs. I continue to weigh myself, because i like the sense of control. For me, it's not "i want to binge" when i see a higher number (or a lower one), i rather have to fight the urge to run the weight off. I ran 19k on sunday and have a job interview in an hour, so i fought the urge to 'improve' my weight even more and run because i still have some sore muscles from sunday and instead, am going to gym tonight and tone my muscles. I am really battling my exercise fixation and my aversion to unhealthy food which still stems from the 'clean' eating phase. I am still eating more vegetables than i probably like to do but i think that's fine. I hope the 'scary' food will loose it's scariness over time. Thoughts?

Okay, so you're the one who recommended this wonerful book. Thank you thank you thank you so much. I love it. Also, congrats on the weight loss and obviously you are getting your exercise. I would just caution about getting overly obsessed with exercise (as you already know obviously). I did that once and ran similarly as you (I have OCD so I competely obsess over everything I do much like you say you do), and then I injured my achiles and kept running on it because i was just so obsessed. Needless to say i ended up injuring myself so bad i couldn't run for a year. And the not being able to run really depressed me and I binged alot because of that. Also, I don't think scary food will ever lose it's scariness unless you force yourself to eat some some of the time, but it sounds like you are aware of that and working on it. It sounds all in all you are doing well. Thanks for chiming in .

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by lovely30

I applaud everyone that can move past the diet mentality. I really hope to post one day in this thread with that success.

We hope you post too. You could post now and not wait for one day. You don't have to get rid of diet menatlity to post on this thread. A devil's advocate is always a good thing. Keeps people in check.

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by SouthernMaven

kellycg and CurvyRedhead - thanks so much for sharing your stories. And CurvyRedhead, good luck on your interview! Keep us posted on how it went.

lovely30 - I hope you will continue to read and post here. If you want to move past the diet mentality, there are lots of people here willing to help you. But I understand how you need to do it in your own time and your own way.

anakat - thank you for your kind words. I am so, SO happy to hear that this thread has been of help to others. Ever since veggiedaze started this thread I have been truly hopeful that others have been reading it, even if they have not posted. I can tell you that I'm feeling so free after getting off the diet roller coaster that I'm like an evangelist who wants to "spread the word of truth" to everyone struggling with this. But as I wrote above, it's something that each person has to be ready to embrace. No one can force it on them, just as no one can be forced into any particular way of eating.

veggiedaze - I'm so glad to know that you enjoyed Josie's videos as much as I did. Thanks for breaking her information down the way you did.

"Eating Because You Ate" describes me perfectly! I would stay on plan a while and then go off plan, eating to excess and saying "I'll start over tomorrow (or Monday)." I had been doing this off and on for about 18 months, and I began noticing that my time staying on plan would be shorter and shorter. It was a ridiculous cycle and I kept thinking "WHY do I continue to do this???" But oddly enough my very last attempt at dieting (starting early February) was the most successful. I lasted about 3 1/2 weeks and suddenly I was DONE. But instead of "eating because I ate" I simply started eating only when I was hungry and that was that.

I've not been perfect - I told the story of the stress of the iPhone in a previous post and how I reached for that Starbucks mocha for no other reason than to soothe myself. But that is the beauty of non-dieting; you can do that as long as it isn't a consistent pattern of using food (or drink) to soothe. Again, so often in the past this would have been followed by a pretty big helping of guilt. And guilt about my eating always lead to more eating. That's why I know getting rid of the guilt has been the key for me.

Amen on getting rid of the guilt. Definitely the worst of the worst.

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by magical

First up, sorry to hear about your father

This post is in reply to your post. Veggiedaze has many good observations which she posted in reply and which I would love to touch on after this.

I have observed that many of us who crave sugar try to solve our problem in one or more of the following ways. These ways range from total restriction to total non-restriction - there are probably a whole number of other ways out there but I think they are probably similar to what is below (not sure though):

1. Give up sugar totally
2. Go on a low carb or paleo lifestyle
3. Go on a low carb lifestyle but with a cheat day (e.g. have a sweet once a week)
4. Eat healthily each day and have a cheat day once a week/fortnight
5. Eat healthily each day most of the time with sweets/junk in moderation also each day
6. Total non-restriction, meaning eat sweets/junk any time.

I have read many stories on 3FC and all other dieting forums I've been on about how each one (except for the last, which was never proposed as an option) worked for at least one person. However, what we do not read is how long the chosen option worked for that person.

In REAL life, I have never heard of any person who successfully given up sugar for a lifetime. On the other hand, I have heard of many, many thin people who eat junk all the time (ie. way no. 6 above).

I have also heard of many people that cannot sustain a low carb lifestyle although I have heard of people who say that they are long term Atkins maintainers. My dad, one of the most disciplined person I have ever met and one of the most fittest and healthiest, was an Atkins follower because of the health benefits of the diet (alleged) but failed to sustain the lifestyle on a long term basis.

So then comes the "cheat day" option. Some people do this very well but a heck of a lot of discipline is required for this lifestyle and I suspect that for some, each day of restricting may be a struggle and a battle for those on this lifestyle. I admittedly do not have such discipline.

Next is the "eat healthily and have sweets/junk/crap in moderation". Many people handle this well including many on this thread. For others, to get to this stage may be difficult as they cannot stop eating once they have a taste of sweets/junk/crap. So what these people do is to restrict totally (option 1), go on a low carb lifestyle (option 2), have a cheat day (option 3/4) and hence, the cycle starts over and over again.

Solution for these people?? Lol, I don't have one and can't think of one!! EDIT: Veggiedaze's distinction between those who binge because of restriction/dieting and those who binge (or continue bingeing) because they are emotional eaters seem to be a key here to solve the problem.

I never actually did the "eat healthily and have junk in moderation" thing. In the past, I only ever binged and restrict (so a lot and none!). My solution, as previously described, was to go option 6 and finally, progressed to option 5.

You have explained perfectly why I am choosing not to do low carb or cheat day. Because i have tried and failed so miserably at it for years. Still makes me sad. I like the idea.
And yes, right now I'm at total non restriction but hope to be number 5 sometime.

You are just wonderful at laying out stages, phases etc. into beautifully numbered lists for easy interpretation. You would make a wonderful teacher I think.

[CurvyReadhead]

Originally Posted by veggiedaze

When I stopped restricting, my grocery shopping didn't really change muchh from when I was restricting so I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. But what I've realized now, is that my favourite foods are healthy foods. I don't actually want "unhealthy" food too much. (...) Junk food just doesn't appeal to me when I actually want to eat food as fuel. The only real time I actually want unhealthy food is when I am with other people and there is something unhealthy that everyone is eating (like the donuts at work or going out for wings or chinese with friends) and by not letting myself have it when everyone else does, I feel really deprived. Other than that, I really truly dislike unhealthy food for real meals. I would rather eat a chicken stir fry with tonnes of veggies any day over fast food. Also, going back to the portion control discussion, I don't think it's all that necessary to really restrict portions of crap food when eating out with friends because how often do people really go out with friends (me only like once every couple months). So why not just eat as much as you want and forget about the portion moderation. By doing away with it and just having fun you will probably actually have less IMHO.

Anyways, it's been such an epiphany because I just didn't get why I still wanted healthy food 99.9% of the time when I was physically hungry after not restricting wondering if I was somehow lying to myself. I really envy people who do not have the emotional eating component of bingeing. If it was just diet/restriction bingeing, the solution would be so much simpler: just stop restricting. For emotional eaters they have to figure this out as well and it is tougher to solve I think but not impossible. I think that's why there has been so much skeptisism at bingefrees claims to just stop restricting and dieting and problem solved. I think some people (people who emotionally eat) know there is more to it than that, and to those people there is more to it. For me there is more to it. I envy you magical that you state you do not emotionally eat. But honest to g-d everyone that emotionally eats, just understainding the urgers makes it so much better. I can't reccomend more both josies youtube videos to explain why dieting causes bingeing, and that book "Liife is hard; Food is easy" to tackle the emotional eating part. And when josies book comes out on the emotional eating I bet it will be good.

Also, when Josie stopped restricting she did just as bingefree did and bought all her favourites and triggers and just submerged herself in it. She said while this is probably the fastest route to getting through the eating crappy phase, some people, particulary those who do alot of emotional eating do better by keeping most of it out of the house and gradually bringing some things in. This is the approach I have taken because emotional eating has such a strong hold on me and there is definitely something to be said about the power of suggestion. I don't really need to look at stuff all the time that urges me to emotionally eat. Josie suggests keeping the trigger stuff in a separate cupboard or drawer. Honestly I don't see why not go one step further and just keep it at the store and get it when you need it. That's just me though. Just doesn't make sense to me to keep it in the house if you don't have to. As long as you know you can go get anything anytime you want to you won't feel deprived. Those are my thoughts for today.
.

See my comment above, i wholeheartly agree.

[Xena2013]

Originally Posted by magical

I think SouthernMaven was spot on when she said this on page 3 of this thread:



IMO, unless you (as in a general "you") are willing to try another diet/plan to restrict sugar/carbs, you need to cure your bingeing by letting go completely of your restrictions and yes, gain weight, then practice IE by really examining how hunger and satiety/fullness works for you as an individual.

YIKES I think this would be the one thing that sent me back to dieting. I am 200 lbs, if I would gain even more weight now, I would freak out.

I donīt mind gaining 5 lbs in fluctuations, but gaining real weight (so to speak wearing bigger clothes) would be devastating for me.

As of right now the IE (I hate the name IE, I rather call it mindful eating) works great for me and I lost 5 lbs so far. I know it canīt always go down, but I donīt think you necessarily gain weight trying to stop dieting.

[freelancemomma]

Originally Posted by veggiedaze

I just love how you put things. I guess that's why your name is freelance . I think alot of people would agree our biology is mean-spirited. You have been successful in meeting your goal weight, so maybe you could share what your methods have been.

No particular method, beyond K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid). Unlike some people on this board I don't enjoy tinkering with macros, restricting food groups, forcing myself to drink beyond thirst levels, or imposing any more rules on myself than absolutely necessary.

What seems to work the best for me is:
- Being "calorie aware" rather than precisely counting calories. When I was losing I aimed for roughly 1,500 cals/day and I now eat about 2,000.
- Eating a large breakfast (my favourite meal), medium lunch, and smallish supper
- Having a couple of small snacks every day
- "Closing the shop" after 8 p.m. or so
- Eating only foods I really enjoy and using strong flavours (e.g., cilantro, hot peppers) as seasoning
- Having a glass of wine (occasionally two) most evenings with dinner
- Having a few treat meals every month and a no-holds-barred planned binge (I'm talking 4,000 cals) every couple of months, usually when dining out with my family at an all-you-can-eat sushi or pan-Asian place
- Exercising for about 45 minutes 4 times per week, generally after breakfast.

It's still a work in progress, though, and I still fight urges to nibble throughout the day. (I work from home so the fridge is not hard to find.) Some days I'm more successful than others.

Freelance

p.s. To my surprise, my list actually struck me as quite healthy (psychologically) when I looked over it. Maybe I'm doing something right after all. That said, I'm not sure I'll ever turn into one of those annoyingly well-balanced people who instinctively push their plates aside when they've had enough.

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by Xena2013

YIKES I think this would be the one thing that sent me back to dieting. I am 200 lbs, if I would gain even more weight now, I would freak out.

I donīt mind gaining 5 lbs in fluctuations, but gaining real weight (so to speak wearing bigger clothes) would be devastating for me.

As of right now the IE (I hate the name IE, I rather call it mindful eating) works great for me and I lost 5 lbs so far. I know it canīt always go down, but I donīt think you necessarily gain weight trying to stop dieting.

I agree not everyone will gain weight. I am not gaining weight I don't think but haven't weighed myself so I don't really know, but I am wearing the same jeans and they fit fine. But I do feel bloated and puffy some days simply because i am not eating perfectly clean anymore and my glycogen stores are always full now because I am eating carbs therefore my muscles aren't so stringy. But it feels so much better to not be glycogen depleted. i have way more energy and my mind is sharper (brain functions on glucose only). But, I think someone needs to be willing to gain some weight because it could happen, and if a person panicks they will be driven back to dieting. I think like what curvyredhead said that if you have quite a bit of weight to lose, you will likely lose weight. People of normal weights or underweight are likely the ones who will gain the most weight while transitioning into IE. Also remember it is trial and error, and some weight gain will be due to error and will come off again once a person sorts everything out.

[Xena2013]

I agree - that's what I meant as well. If u gain constantly weight at 200 lbs or 130 lbs is a huge difference.

[kellycg102]

Veggiedaze, thank you so much. You always have great information and advice. I wish I could say the same that I don't really like the junk food, but man I do lol BUT......I had the option of going to get my favourtie Tim Hortons breakfast bagel this morning and didn't even feel like it. I packed my breakfast to take to eat and didn't even eat my oatmea, which I love and haven't had for along time, some yogurt and strawberries. AND..........I DIDNT eat until after 11am because I wasn't overly hungry and kinda lazy about the whole thing. I am taking a friend for her birthday to Farmboy for her lunch lol kinda weird I know, but she has never been and I really am looking forward to having a huge salad with CHEESE and quinoa and whatever else I was forbidding myself to have. It feels so weird and I am just trying to keep a mantra of I am feeding my body and I can have whatever I want and I like the way I feel when I eat healthier stuff, but I can have the carby stuff if I want. Soooooo pretty good 2nd day so far. Last night I had a bit of an eating fest when I got home, but I went up to bed to read this forum and honestly maybe thought only once about going back to the kitchen, but not a huge need that i most often have felt in the past. I am pretty happy so far. I have to decide about working at the weight loss clinic.......if that will affect me at all, I only do Wedensday nights for like 3 hours so not alot, and I will feel HORRIBLE to give it up and leave them hanging but I have to do what I have to do for me. Maybe I will be fine though. I am heading to Myrtle Beach Friday morning so I will be away for a week, not able to check here much, but excited about being able to enjoy my trip, have a hamburger and bun and not frett!!!!!!! Have a great day everyone. Thanks again for all of you support, it has been a huge eye opener!!!!!!!

[magical]

Originally Posted by Xena2013

YIKES I think this would be the one thing that sent me back to dieting. I am 200 lbs, if I would gain even more weight now, I would freak out.

I donīt mind gaining 5 lbs in fluctuations, but gaining real weight (so to speak wearing bigger clothes) would be devastating for me.

As of right now the IE (I hate the name IE, I rather call it mindful eating) works great for me and I lost 5 lbs so far. I know it canīt always go down, but I donīt think you necessarily gain weight trying to stop dieting.

Well done on the loss, Xena!

The weight gain due to total non-restriction was what it took for me to be cured of my binge/purge and compensatory behavior cycles, and to now be able to keep any sort of food in my house and not have them act as trigger foods. As I said, FREEDOM.

I would say that I gained probably max 10 lbs and I did start buying clothes one size up last year but they're too big for me now and I don't like wearing them. Real waste of money actually.

I don't think you have an eating disorder? Then you probably do not need to something so drastic I guess.

[veggiedaze]

Originally Posted by anakat

I don't normally post, but I've been a long time visitor to this site. I'm a normal weight 35 year old woman ,who struggled with anorexia as a teenager, and who has been going through binge/restrict cycles ever since.

I just wanted to let everyone know how useful this discussion has been for me, Its clarified for me how SICK I am of this struggle with food, and made me decide to give up restriction once and for all. I stopped restricting pretty muih at the same time that veggie daze did, and went through a similar pattern of overeating junk, which now seems to have settled down. I haven' t binged for about a month now (I was previously a weekend binger), and feel really hopeful that this time the change will stick.

I probably won't keep posting, but I really wanted everyone who has contributed to know how much your stories helped me, and are probably helping a ton of others like me. I'm serious. The mental shift I have experienced as I've followed along has been profound.

Thanks again!

Wow! That's so awesome. Hopefully we'll both make it a second month without bingeing. And please any epiphanys you have I would love to hear them.

[veggiedaze]

Question for everyone: How many of you are emotional eaters? Like eating out of boredom, sadness, anger, agitation etc. I definitely do this and have always done this even as a kid.(I am really making headway on this with that emotional eating book I mentioned earlier that curvyredhead reccomended). Then when i first started restricting as a teenager, the emotional munching/overeating was replaced with emotional bingeing. I would be happy going back to emotional overeating, but in a perfect world I could get rid of it altogether. I think it's possible. It's like now everytime I feel those thoughts, like something sweet after work, I think right away that it's just emotional eating and the feeling goes away immediately. I think I use wine as a replacement to emotional eating because it just feels so good and relaxing to have a glass after work to de-stress. I think it's good I'm not drinking wine right now for this reason too because I am forced to deal with the problem. And it doesn't seem so hard when you know what's going on.